Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Origin and historicity"

(→‎References: mod)
(format)
Line 14: Line 14:
 
{{seealso|Origin of the Book of Mormon|Historicity of the Book of Mormon}}
 
{{seealso|Origin of the Book of Mormon|Historicity of the Book of Mormon}}
  
−
{{BeginWikipediaTable|link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates|section=|article=Golden plates}}
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*In the words of LDS historian [[Richard Bushman]], "For most modern readers, the [golden] plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact."
+
|claim=
−
||
+
In the words of LDS historian [[Richard Bushman]], "For most modern readers, the [golden] plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact."
 +
|authorsources=
 
*Bushman 2005 p. 58
 
*Bushman 2005 p. 58
−
||
+
|response=
 
*Note that this is the '''second time''' that this citation has been used. It is also used in the introduction. It is '''repeated again''' later in the article.
 
*Note that this is the '''second time''' that this citation has been used. It is also used in the introduction. It is '''repeated again''' later in the article.
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*Because Joseph Smith said he returned the plates to [[angel Moroni|an angel]] after he finished translating them, their authenticity—if they ever existed—cannot be determined by direct physical examination.  Most believing Mormons believe in the golden plates as a matter of faith.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
Because Joseph Smith said he returned the plates to [[angel Moroni|an angel]] after he finished translating them, their authenticity—if they ever existed—cannot be determined by direct physical examination.  Most believing Mormons believe in the golden plates as a matter of faith.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*No citation given.
 
*No citation given.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaNPOV|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=273270785&oldid=273254899}}The qualifier "if they ever existed" (originally "if they existed") is unnecessary. Note that this phrase was added by a ''LDS'' wiki editor.
 
*{{WikipediaNPOV|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=273270785&oldid=273254899}}The qualifier "if they ever existed" (originally "if they existed") is unnecessary. Note that this phrase was added by a ''LDS'' wiki editor.
 
*{{WikipediaAmusingProse}} "Most believing Mormons believe..."
 
*{{WikipediaAmusingProse}} "Most believing Mormons believe..."
 
*Most believing Mormons accept the existence of the golden plates because Joseph, the Three and the Eight witnesses said that they saw them.
 
*Most believing Mormons accept the existence of the golden plates because Joseph, the Three and the Eight witnesses said that they saw them.
 
*{{Main|Book of Mormon/Witnesses|l1=Book of Mormon witnesses}}
 
*{{Main|Book of Mormon/Witnesses|l1=Book of Mormon witnesses}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
  
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*Nevertheless, the golden plates were allegedly shown to [[Book of Mormon witnesses|several close associates]] of Joseph Smith,
+
|claim=
−
||
+
Nevertheless, the golden plates were allegedly shown to [[Book of Mormon witnesses|several close associates]] of Joseph Smith,
 +
|authorsources=
 
*Only close associates of Joseph Smith were allowed to become official witnesses to the plates; he invited no strangers, or women, to view them. These witnesses, first a group of three, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, and then a group of eight—five members of the Whitmer family, Joseph Smith's father, and two of his brothers, Hyrum and Samuel—all said they "saw and hefted" the plates. See Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 23.
 
*Only close associates of Joseph Smith were allowed to become official witnesses to the plates; he invited no strangers, or women, to view them. These witnesses, first a group of three, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, and then a group of eight—five members of the Whitmer family, Joseph Smith's father, and two of his brothers, Hyrum and Samuel—all said they "saw and hefted" the plates. See Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 23.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*It is interesting to note the emphasis on the closeness of the witnesses to Joseph Smith.
 
*It is interesting to note the emphasis on the closeness of the witnesses to Joseph Smith.
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*and the [[Book of Mormon]] exists as its reputed translation.  Thus, Mormon apologists and Mormon critics can debate indirect evidence only: they may ask whether the [[Book of Mormon]] narrative is consistent with science and history and whether its witnesses are credible.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
and the [[Book of Mormon]] exists as its reputed translation.  Thus, Mormon apologists and Mormon critics can debate indirect evidence only: they may ask whether the [[Book of Mormon]] narrative is consistent with science and history and whether its witnesses are credible.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*See generally {{Harvtxt|Metcalfe|1993}}, which outlines the main arguments for and against Book of Mormon authenticity.
 
*See generally {{Harvtxt|Metcalfe|1993}}, which outlines the main arguments for and against Book of Mormon authenticity.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*Actually, Mormon apologists rely upon eyewitness testimony regarding the existence of the plates. Critics discount those statements.
 
*Actually, Mormon apologists rely upon eyewitness testimony regarding the existence of the plates. Critics discount those statements.
 
{{WikipediaNPOV}}
 
{{WikipediaNPOV}}
Line 63: Line 63:
 
</small>
 
</small>
 
*{{Main|Book of Mormon/Witnesses|l1=Book of Mormon witnesses}}
 
*{{Main|Book of Mormon/Witnesses|l1=Book of Mormon witnesses}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
  
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*Although not the basis of their faith, many Mormons take this research seriously. Mormon scholars have formed collaborations such as [[Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies]] to provide [[apologetics|apologetic]] answers to critical research about the golden plates and topics in the field of Mormon studies.  Among these topics, the credibility of the plates has been, according to Bushman, a "troublesome item."
+
|claim=
−
||
+
Although not the basis of their faith, many Mormons take this research seriously. Mormon scholars have formed collaborations such as [[Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies]] to provide [[apologetics|apologetic]] answers to critical research about the golden plates and topics in the field of Mormon studies.  Among these topics, the credibility of the plates has been, according to Bushman, a "troublesome item."
 +
|authorsources=
 
*"The Mormon sources constantly refer to the single most troublesome item in Joseph Smith's history, the gold plates on which the Book of Mormon was said to be written. For most modern readers, the plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact." {{harvtxt|Bushman|2005}p=58}}. Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling, ''Mormon America: The Power and the Promise (HarperSanFrancisco, 1999)'' begin a chapter called "The Gold Bible" (259-277) with a question posed by liberal Mormon Brigham D. Madsen, "'Were there really gold plates and ministering angels, or was there just Joseph Smith seated at a table with his face in a hat dictating to a scribe a fictional account of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas?' Resolving that problem haunts loyal Mormons." (259)
 
*"The Mormon sources constantly refer to the single most troublesome item in Joseph Smith's history, the gold plates on which the Book of Mormon was said to be written. For most modern readers, the plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact." {{harvtxt|Bushman|2005}p=58}}. Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling, ''Mormon America: The Power and the Promise (HarperSanFrancisco, 1999)'' begin a chapter called "The Gold Bible" (259-277) with a question posed by liberal Mormon Brigham D. Madsen, "'Were there really gold plates and ministering angels, or was there just Joseph Smith seated at a table with his face in a hat dictating to a scribe a fictional account of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas?' Resolving that problem haunts loyal Mormons." (259)
−
||
+
|response=
 
*Actually, most Latter-day Saints aren't even aware of any research in this area.
 
*Actually, most Latter-day Saints aren't even aware of any research in this area.
 
*Note that this is the '''third time''' Bushman's quote about the plates being "beyond belief" has been employed.
 
*Note that this is the '''third time''' Bushman's quote about the plates being "beyond belief" has been employed.
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*The [[Book of Mormon]] itself portrays the golden plates as a historical record, engraved by two [[pre-Columbian]] prophet-historians from around the year AD 400: [[Mormon (prophet)|Mormon]] and his son [[Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet)|Moroni]]. Mormon and Moroni, the book says, had abridged earlier historical records from other sets of metal plates. Their script, according to the book, was called "[[reformed Egyptian]]," a language unknown to linguists or Egyptologists.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
The [[Book of Mormon]] itself portrays the golden plates as a historical record, engraved by two [[pre-Columbian]] prophet-historians from around the year AD 400: [[Mormon (prophet)|Mormon]] and his son [[Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet)|Moroni]]. Mormon and Moroni, the book says, had abridged earlier historical records from other sets of metal plates. Their script, according to the book, was called "[[reformed Egyptian]]," a language unknown to linguists or Egyptologists.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1830|p=538}}. Standard language references such as {{Harvtxt|Daniels|Bright|1996}}; {{Harvtxt|Crystal|1997}}; and {{Harvtxt|Woodard|2004}} contain no reference to "reformed Egyptian". "Reformed Egyptian" is also not discussed in {{Harvtxt|Robinson|2002}}, although it is mentioned in {{harvtxt|Williams|1991}}.
 
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1830|p=538}}. Standard language references such as {{Harvtxt|Daniels|Bright|1996}}; {{Harvtxt|Crystal|1997}}; and {{Harvtxt|Woodard|2004}} contain no reference to "reformed Egyptian". "Reformed Egyptian" is also not discussed in {{Harvtxt|Robinson|2002}}, although it is mentioned in {{harvtxt|Williams|1991}}.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaNPOV|editor=Dougweller|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=194386905&oldid=194386724}}The term "reformed Egyptian" is not the ''name'' of a language&mdash;it is a reference to the fact that the Egyptian characters used has been "reformed." Yet, the wiki editors attempt to treat it as if it were supposed to be a known language, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that nobody would know of it. Therefore, it is absurd to state in the footnotes that there is no reference to "reformed Egyptian" or "Reformed Egyptian" in modern language texts. It is also no surprise that such a "language" is "unknown to linguists or Egyptologists." This is simply a transparent attempt by the wiki editors to reinforce the idea that "reformed Egyptian" could not have existed.
 
*{{WikipediaNPOV|editor=Dougweller|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=194386905&oldid=194386724}}The term "reformed Egyptian" is not the ''name'' of a language&mdash;it is a reference to the fact that the Egyptian characters used has been "reformed." Yet, the wiki editors attempt to treat it as if it were supposed to be a known language, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that nobody would know of it. Therefore, it is absurd to state in the footnotes that there is no reference to "reformed Egyptian" or "Reformed Egyptian" in modern language texts. It is also no surprise that such a "language" is "unknown to linguists or Egyptologists." This is simply a transparent attempt by the wiki editors to reinforce the idea that "reformed Egyptian" could not have existed.
 
*{{Detail|Reformed Egyptian}}
 
*{{Detail|Reformed Egyptian}}
 
*It should also be noted that the first sentence is incorrect&mdash;the first portion of the Book of Mormon was not abridged by either Mormon or Moroni.
 
*It should also be noted that the first sentence is incorrect&mdash;the first portion of the Book of Mormon was not abridged by either Mormon or Moroni.
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
  
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*According to the book, the language began as [[Egyptian language|Egyptian]],
+
|claim=
−
||
+
According to the book, the language began as [[Egyptian language|Egyptian]],
 +
|authorsources=
 
*{{s|1|Nephi|1|2}}.
 
*{{s|1|Nephi|1|2}}.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
−
 
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*then was altered based on speech patterns.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
then was altered based on speech patterns.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*{{s||Mormon|9|32-34}} ("altered...according to our manner of speech").
 
*{{s||Mormon|9|32-34}} ("altered...according to our manner of speech").
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
−
 
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*Historically, [[Latter Day Saint movement]] denominations have taught that the Book of Mormon's description of the plates' origin is accurate, and that the Book of Mormon is a translation of the plates.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
Historically, [[Latter Day Saint movement]] denominations have taught that the Book of Mormon's description of the plates' origin is accurate, and that the Book of Mormon is a translation of the plates.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*Book of Mormon (LDS edition), Introduction (expressing the LDS view that the Book of Mormon "is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas", and that the book is a translation of the golden plates "into the English language".)
 
*Book of Mormon (LDS edition), Introduction (expressing the LDS view that the Book of Mormon "is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas", and that the book is a translation of the golden plates "into the English language".)
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
* The [[Community of Christ]], however, while accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture, no longer takes an official position on the historicity of the golden plates.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
The [[Community of Christ]], however, while accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture, no longer takes an official position on the historicity of the golden plates.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*McMurray, W. Grant, "They "Shall Blossom as the Rose": Native Americans and the Dream of Zion," an address delivered February 17, 2001, accessed on Community of Christ website, September 1, 2006 at http://web.archive.org/web/20070817021355/http://cofchrist.org/docs/NativeAmericanConference/keynote.asp ("The proper use of the Book of Mormon as sacred scripture has been under wide discussion in the 1970s and beyond, in part because of long-standing questions about its historicity and in part because of perceived theological inadequacies, including matters of race and ethnicity."). At the 2007 Community of Christ World Conference, President Stephen M. Veazey ruled a resolution to "reaffirm the Book of Mormon as a divinely inspired record" out of order. In so doing he stated that "while the Church affirms the Book of Mormon as scripture, and makes it available for study and use in various languages, we do not attempt to mandate the degree of belief or use. This position is in keeping with our longstanding tradition that belief in the Book of Mormon is not to be used as a test of fellowship or membership in the church." Andrew M. Shields, "Official Minutes of Business Session, Wednesday March 28, 2007," in 2007 World Conference Thursday Bulletin, March 29, 2007. Community of Christ, 2007.
 
*McMurray, W. Grant, "They "Shall Blossom as the Rose": Native Americans and the Dream of Zion," an address delivered February 17, 2001, accessed on Community of Christ website, September 1, 2006 at http://web.archive.org/web/20070817021355/http://cofchrist.org/docs/NativeAmericanConference/keynote.asp ("The proper use of the Book of Mormon as sacred scripture has been under wide discussion in the 1970s and beyond, in part because of long-standing questions about its historicity and in part because of perceived theological inadequacies, including matters of race and ethnicity."). At the 2007 Community of Christ World Conference, President Stephen M. Veazey ruled a resolution to "reaffirm the Book of Mormon as a divinely inspired record" out of order. In so doing he stated that "while the Church affirms the Book of Mormon as scripture, and makes it available for study and use in various languages, we do not attempt to mandate the degree of belief or use. This position is in keeping with our longstanding tradition that belief in the Book of Mormon is not to be used as a test of fellowship or membership in the church." Andrew M. Shields, "Official Minutes of Business Session, Wednesday March 28, 2007," in 2007 World Conference Thursday Bulletin, March 29, 2007. Community of Christ, 2007.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*Moreover, even in the more theologically conservative [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints|LDS Church]], some adherents who accept the Book of Mormon as inspired scripture do not believe it is a literal translation of a physical historical record.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
Moreover, even in the more theologically conservative [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints|LDS Church]], some adherents who accept the Book of Mormon as inspired scripture do not believe it is a literal translation of a physical historical record.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*"In the early 20th century, [[B. H. Roberts]], historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), entertained the notion that Joseph Smith was capable of producing the Book of Mormon himself. In 1999, Richard N. Ostling, a religion journalist, wrote that within "the loyal Mormon community, there is a moderate intellectual group that believes the Book of Mormon does have ancient roots but, as part of the process of revelation properly understood, is expressed through nineteenth-century thought processes....an ancient text mediated through the mind of Joseph Smith" (Ostling 1999, 264).
 
*"In the early 20th century, [[B. H. Roberts]], historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), entertained the notion that Joseph Smith was capable of producing the Book of Mormon himself. In 1999, Richard N. Ostling, a religion journalist, wrote that within "the loyal Mormon community, there is a moderate intellectual group that believes the Book of Mormon does have ancient roots but, as part of the process of revelation properly understood, is expressed through nineteenth-century thought processes....an ancient text mediated through the mind of Joseph Smith" (Ostling 1999, 264).
−
||
+
|response=
−
*{{WikipediaCitationAbuse|editor=John Foxe|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=202263398&oldid=202153103}} The citation of B.H. Roberts implies that he did not believe the Book of Mormon to be a literal translation. Note wiki the comment of wiki editor John Foxe that he is adding "some Mormon liberality on the origin of the Book of Mormon." This is an issue that critics and believers have long debated based upon B.H. Roberts' [[Studies of the Book of Mormon|''Studies of the Book of Mormon'']]. Given that the issue of Roberts' state of belief is by no means settled, it is incorrect for the wiki article to establish the position the Roberts lost his belief in the Book of Mormon as a historical record. This reflects the belief of the wiki editor, but is not supportable as a fact.
+
*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=John Foxe|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=202263398&oldid=202153103}} The citation of B.H. Roberts implies that he did not believe the Book of Mormon to be a literal translation. Note wiki the comment of wiki editor John Foxe that he is adding "some Mormon liberality on the origin of the Book of Mormon." This is an issue that critics and believers have long debated based upon B.H. Roberts' [[Studies of the Book of Mormon|''Studies of the Book of Mormon'']]. Given that the issue of Roberts' state of belief is by no means settled, it is incorrect for the wiki article to establish the position the Roberts lost his belief in the Book of Mormon as a historical record. This reflects the belief of the wiki editor, but is not supportable as a fact.
 
{{Detail|Book of Mormon/B.H. Roberts' testimony|l1=B.H. Roberts' testimony of the Book of Mormon}}
 
{{Detail|Book of Mormon/B.H. Roberts' testimony|l1=B.H. Roberts' testimony of the Book of Mormon}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
−
 
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*Non-believers and some liberal Mormons have advanced naturalistic explanations for the story of the plates. For example, it has been theorized that the plates were fashioned by Joseph Smith or one of his associates,
+
|claim=
−
||
+
Non-believers and some liberal Mormons have advanced naturalistic explanations for the story of the plates. For example, it has been theorized that the plates were fashioned by Joseph Smith or one of his associates,
 +
|authorsources=
 
*{{Harvtxt|Vogel|2004|pp=98, 600 note 65}} (suggesting the plates were made of common tin). To former Mormon Dan Vogel, "construction of such a book would have been relatively easy.  There were scraps of tin available on the Smith property and elsewhere in the vicinity, and during the several hours Joseph was separated from Emma the night they went to the hill and on other occasions, he could have easily set up shop in the cave on the other side of the hill or in some corner of the forest.  Using a pair of metal shears, it would have been easy to cut a number of 6 x 8 sheets....A book made of tin plates of the dimensions ( 6 x 8 x 6 inches) described by Smith would have weighed between fifty and sixty pounds, corresponding to the weight that was mentioned by eye-witness accounts."
 
*{{Harvtxt|Vogel|2004|pp=98, 600 note 65}} (suggesting the plates were made of common tin). To former Mormon Dan Vogel, "construction of such a book would have been relatively easy.  There were scraps of tin available on the Smith property and elsewhere in the vicinity, and during the several hours Joseph was separated from Emma the night they went to the hill and on other occasions, he could have easily set up shop in the cave on the other side of the hill or in some corner of the forest.  Using a pair of metal shears, it would have been easy to cut a number of 6 x 8 sheets....A book made of tin plates of the dimensions ( 6 x 8 x 6 inches) described by Smith would have weighed between fifty and sixty pounds, corresponding to the weight that was mentioned by eye-witness accounts."
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCitationInsufficient|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=273288766&oldid=273270785}} We see no "liberal Mormons" quoted in this or the subsequent sections.
 
*{{WikipediaCitationInsufficient|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=273288766&oldid=273270785}} We see no "liberal Mormons" quoted in this or the subsequent sections.
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
  
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*that Joseph Smith had the ability to convince others of their existence through [[magic (illusion)|illusions]] or [[hypnosis]],
+
|claim=
−
||
+
that Joseph Smith had the ability to convince others of their existence through [[magic (illusion)|illusions]] or [[hypnosis]],
 +
|authorsources=
 
*{{Harvtxt|Riley|1903|p=211}} (proposing the theory that Smith hypnotized his followers in a way that suggested to them that they had seen the plates).
 
*{{Harvtxt|Riley|1903|p=211}} (proposing the theory that Smith hypnotized his followers in a way that suggested to them that they had seen the plates).
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
−
 
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*or that the plates were [[mysticism|mystical]] and should be understood in the context of Smith's historical era, when [[magic (paranormal)|magic]] was an accepted part of reality.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
or that the plates were [[mysticism|mystical]] and should be understood in the context of Smith's historical era, when [[magic (paranormal)|magic]] was an accepted part of reality.
 +
|authorsources=
 
*{{Harvtxt|Metcalfe|1993|p=178}}.
 
*{{Harvtxt|Metcalfe|1993|p=178}}.
−
||
+
|response=
 
*{{WikipediaCitationAbuse|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=194752621&oldid=194741952}}The cited source does not use the words "mystical" or "magical" to describe the plates.
 
*{{WikipediaCitationAbuse|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=194752621&oldid=194741952}}The cited source does not use the words "mystical" or "magical" to describe the plates.
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
−
 
 
 
===== =====
 
===== =====
−
||
+
{{WikipediaPassage
−
*These theories are explored in the article ''[[Origin of the Book of Mormon]]''. Scholarly examinations of the plates' historicity are discussed in the article ''[[Historicity of the Book of Mormon]]''.
+
|claim=
−
{{EndTable}}
+
These theories are explored in the article ''[[Origin of the Book of Mormon]]''. Scholarly examinations of the plates' historicity are discussed in the article ''[[Historicity of the Book of Mormon]]''.
 +
}}
  
 
==References==
 
==References==

Revision as of 22:04, 7 February 2010


Introduction
A FairMormon Analysis of Wikipedia: Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates
 A work by a collaboration of authors (Link to Wikipedia article here) 		Story
The name Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.. Wikipedia content is copied and made available under the GNU Free Documentation License.

An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" (Version December 10, 2009)

Origin and historicity

See also: Origin of the Book of Mormon and Historicity of the Book of Mormon

From the Wikipedia article:
In the words of LDS historian Richard Bushman, "For most modern readers, the [golden] plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact."

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Bushman 2005 p. 58

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
Because Joseph Smith said he returned the plates to an angel after he finished translating them, their authenticity—if they ever existed—cannot be determined by direct physical examination. Most believing Mormons believe in the golden plates as a matter of faith.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • No citation given.

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
Nevertheless, the golden plates were allegedly shown to several close associates of Joseph Smith,

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Only close associates of Joseph Smith were allowed to become official witnesses to the plates; he invited no strangers, or women, to view them. These witnesses, first a group of three, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, and then a group of eight—five members of the Whitmer family, Joseph Smith's father, and two of his brothers, Hyrum and Samuel—all said they "saw and hefted" the plates. See Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 23.

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
and the Book of Mormon exists as its reputed translation. Thus, Mormon apologists and Mormon critics can debate indirect evidence only: they may ask whether the Book of Mormon narrative is consistent with science and history and whether its witnesses are credible.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • See generally Metcalfe (1993) , which outlines the main arguments for and against Book of Mormon authenticity.

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
Although not the basis of their faith, many Mormons take this research seriously. Mormon scholars have formed collaborations such as Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies to provide apologetic answers to critical research about the golden plates and topics in the field of Mormon studies. Among these topics, the credibility of the plates has been, according to Bushman, a "troublesome item."

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • "The Mormon sources constantly refer to the single most troublesome item in Joseph Smith's history, the gold plates on which the Book of Mormon was said to be written. For most modern readers, the plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact." Bushman . Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling, Mormon America: The Power and the Promise (HarperSanFrancisco, 1999) begin a chapter called "The Gold Bible" (259-277) with a question posed by liberal Mormon Brigham D. Madsen, "'Were there really gold plates and ministering angels, or was there just Joseph Smith seated at a table with his face in a hat dictating to a scribe a fictional account of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas?' Resolving that problem haunts loyal Mormons." (259)

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
The Book of Mormon itself portrays the golden plates as a historical record, engraved by two pre-Columbian prophet-historians from around the year AD 400: Mormon and his son Moroni. Mormon and Moroni, the book says, had abridged earlier historical records from other sets of metal plates. Their script, according to the book, was called "reformed Egyptian," a language unknown to linguists or Egyptologists.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Smith (1830) , p. 538. Standard language references such as Daniels (Bright) ; Crystal (1997) ; and Woodard (2004) contain no reference to "reformed Egyptian". "Reformed Egyptian" is also not discussed in Robinson (2002) , although it is mentioned in Williams (1991) .

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
According to the book, the language began as Egyptian,

Wikipedia footnotes:

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
then was altered based on speech patterns.

Wikipedia footnotes:

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
Historically, Latter Day Saint movement denominations have taught that the Book of Mormon's description of the plates' origin is accurate, and that the Book of Mormon is a translation of the plates.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Book of Mormon (LDS edition), Introduction (expressing the LDS view that the Book of Mormon "is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas", and that the book is a translation of the golden plates "into the English language".)

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
The Community of Christ, however, while accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture, no longer takes an official position on the historicity of the golden plates.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • McMurray, W. Grant, "They "Shall Blossom as the Rose": Native Americans and the Dream of Zion," an address delivered February 17, 2001, accessed on Community of Christ website, September 1, 2006 at http://web.archive.org/web/20070817021355/http://cofchrist.org/docs/NativeAmericanConference/keynote.asp ("The proper use of the Book of Mormon as sacred scripture has been under wide discussion in the 1970s and beyond, in part because of long-standing questions about its historicity and in part because of perceived theological inadequacies, including matters of race and ethnicity."). At the 2007 Community of Christ World Conference, President Stephen M. Veazey ruled a resolution to "reaffirm the Book of Mormon as a divinely inspired record" out of order. In so doing he stated that "while the Church affirms the Book of Mormon as scripture, and makes it available for study and use in various languages, we do not attempt to mandate the degree of belief or use. This position is in keeping with our longstanding tradition that belief in the Book of Mormon is not to be used as a test of fellowship or membership in the church." Andrew M. Shields, "Official Minutes of Business Session, Wednesday March 28, 2007," in 2007 World Conference Thursday Bulletin, March 29, 2007. Community of Christ, 2007.

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
Moreover, even in the more theologically conservative LDS Church, some adherents who accept the Book of Mormon as inspired scripture do not believe it is a literal translation of a physical historical record.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • "In the early 20th century, B. H. Roberts, historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), entertained the notion that Joseph Smith was capable of producing the Book of Mormon himself. In 1999, Richard N. Ostling, a religion journalist, wrote that within "the loyal Mormon community, there is a moderate intellectual group that believes the Book of Mormon does have ancient roots but, as part of the process of revelation properly understood, is expressed through nineteenth-century thought processes....an ancient text mediated through the mind of Joseph Smith" (Ostling 1999, 264).

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
Non-believers and some liberal Mormons have advanced naturalistic explanations for the story of the plates. For example, it has been theorized that the plates were fashioned by Joseph Smith or one of his associates,

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Vogel (2004) , pp. 98, 600 note 65 (suggesting the plates were made of common tin). To former Mormon Dan Vogel, "construction of such a book would have been relatively easy. There were scraps of tin available on the Smith property and elsewhere in the vicinity, and during the several hours Joseph was separated from Emma the night they went to the hill and on other occasions, he could have easily set up shop in the cave on the other side of the hill or in some corner of the forest. Using a pair of metal shears, it would have been easy to cut a number of 6 x 8 sheets....A book made of tin plates of the dimensions ( 6 x 8 x 6 inches) described by Smith would have weighed between fifty and sixty pounds, corresponding to the weight that was mentioned by eye-witness accounts."

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
that Joseph Smith had the ability to convince others of their existence through illusions or hypnosis,

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Riley (1903) , p. 211 (proposing the theory that Smith hypnotized his followers in a way that suggested to them that they had seen the plates).

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
or that the plates were mystical and should be understood in the context of Smith's historical era, when magic was an accepted part of reality.

Wikipedia footnotes:

  • Metcalfe (1993) , p. 178.

FAIR's analysis:


From the Wikipedia article:
These theories are explored in the article Origin of the Book of Mormon. Scholarly examinations of the plates' historicity are discussed in the article Historicity of the Book of Mormon.


FAIR's analysis:


References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"

Further reading

Contents

Mormonism and Wikipedia



<onlyinclude>


FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles

FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.

Who can edit Wikipedia articles?

Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.

Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles

FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)

Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?

Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.

Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?

Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.

Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?

Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.

FairMormon's analysis of LDS-related Wikipedia articles

We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:

  1. Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
  2. Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
  3. Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
  4. If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
  5. If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"

Roger Nicholson,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)
The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.

Click here to view the complete article

Wikipedia and anti-Mormon literature
Key sources
  • Roger Nicholson, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That 'Anyone Can Edit'," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 1/8 (14 September 2012). [151–190] link
Wiki links
Online
Navigators

</noinclude>


Copyright © 2005–2024 FAIR. This is not an official Web site of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The content of this page may not be copied, published, or redistributed without the prior written consent of FAIR.
We welcome your suggestions for improving the content of this FAIR Wiki article.

Sites we recommend:


Retrieved from "https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/index.php?title=Mormonism_and_Wikipedia/Golden_plates/Origin_and_historicity&oldid=58488"