Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Introduction

FAIR Answers—back to home page

An analysis of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Introduction

A FAIR Analysis of: Wikipedia article "Golden plates", a work by author: Various

Origin and historicity

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Introduction

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: "the golden plates (also called the gold plates or in some 19th century literature, the golden Bible)"
• Response to claim: "Some witnesses described the plates as weighing from 30 to 60 pounds"
• Response to claim: "bound with one or more rings"
• Response to claim: "Smith dictated a translation using a seer stone in the bottom of a hat, which he placed over his face to view the words written within the stone"
• Response to claim: "Smith published the translation in 1830 as the Book of Mormon"
• Response to claim: Harris "used to practice a good deal of his characteristic jargon and 'seeing with the spiritual eye,' and the like"
• Response to claim: "His remark that a plate was not quite as thick as common tin may have been meant to divert attention from the possibility that they were actually made from some material otherwise readily available to him"
• Response to claim: "the Book of Mormon witnesses based their testimony on visions rather than physical experience"

 Updated 9/21/2011

Response to claim: "the golden plates (also called the gold plates or in some 19th century literature, the golden Bible)"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

According to Latter Day Saint belief, the golden plates (also called the gold plates or in some 19th century literature, the golden Bible)

Author's sources:

1. Use of the terms golden bible and gold Bible by both believers and non-believers dates from the late 1820s. See, for instance, Harris (1859) , p. 167 (use of the term gold Bible by Martin Harris in 1827); Smith (1853) , pp. 102, 109, 113, 145 (use of the term gold Bible in 1827–29 by believing Palmyra neighbors); Grandin (1829) (stating that by 1829 the plates were "generally known and spoken of as the 'Golden Bible'"). Use of these terms has been rare, especially by believers, since the 1830s.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: "Some witnesses described the plates as weighing from 30 to 60 pounds"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

are the source from which Joseph Smith, Jr. translated the Book of Mormon, a sacred text of the faith. Some witnesses described the plates as weighing from 30 to 60 pounds,

Author's sources:

1. Anthon (1834) , p. 270; Vogel (2004) , p. 600n65; 601n96. Vogel estimates that solid gold plates of the same dimensions would weigh about 140 pounds.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

However, the source statement that "solid gold plates" would weigh 140 pounds is meaningless: pure gold would be too fragile to form plates and accept engravings.

Question: How much did the gold plates weigh?

The plates weighed approximately sixty pounds

Witnesses of the Book of Mormon were consistent in their witness that the plates weighed 40-60 pounds.

Some critics assume that the "golden plates" are pure gold, or that they are a solid block of gold. Neither conclusion is warranted.

1. Pure gold plates would be too soft to hold engraving well. An alloy of gold and copper called "tumbaga," known in Mesoamerica, would suit both the appearance and weight of the plates.
2. The plates were not a solid block of gold, but a set of page-like leaves, which reduces the weight by about 50%.

• "weighing altogether from forty to sixty lbs." —Martin Harris

Witness statements regarding the weight of the gold plates

• "I was permitted to lift them. . . . They weighed about sixty pounds according to the best of my judgement." —William Smith
• "I . . . judged them to have weighed about sixty pounds."—William Smith
• "They were much heavier than a stone, and very much heavier than wood. . . . As near as I could tell, about sixty pounds." —William Smith
• "I hefted the plates, and I knew from the heft that they were lead or gold." —Martin Harris
• "My daughter said, they were about as much as she could lift. They were now in the glass-box, and my wife said they were very heavy. They both lifted them." —Martin Harris
• "I moved them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work." —Emma Smith
• Joseph's sister Catherine, while she was dusting in the room where he had been translating, "hefted those plates [which were covered with a cloth] and found them very heavy." —H. S. Salisbury, paraphrasing Catherine Smith Salisbury

Response to claim: "bound with one or more rings"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

being golden or brassy in color, and being composed of thin metallic pages engraved on both sides and bound with one or more rings.

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Question: What were the characteristics of the rings which held the gold plates together?

The plates were fastened together by three D-shaped rings

• "[T]hey were fastened with rings thus [a sketch shows a ring in the shape of a capital D with six lines drawn through the straight side of the letter to represent the leaves of the record]." —David Whitmer
• "bound together like the leaves of a book by massive rings passing through the back edges" —David Whitmer
• "They were bound together in the shape of a book by three gold rings." —David Whitmer
• "put together on the back by three silver rings, so that they would open like a book" —Martin Harris
• " bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole" - Joseph Smith
• "The plates were . . . connected with rings in the shape of the letter D, which facilitated the opening and shutting of the book." - William E. McLellin quoting Hyrum Smith
• "I could tell they were plates of some kind and that they were fastened together by rings running through the back." - William Smith
• "volume of them were bound together like the leaves of a book, and fastened at one edge with three rings running through the whole" - Parley P. Pratt
• "They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate" - Lucy Mack Smith (allegedly)
• "put together with three rings, running through the whole"
• "The plates were minutely described as being connected with rings in the shape of the letter D, when facilitated the opening and shutting of the book." - Early skeptical newspaper account
• "back was secured with three small rings of the same metal, passing through each leaf in succession" - Citing David Whitmer

It should be noted that the "D" shape here described is the most efficient way to pack pages with rings. It is a common design in modern three-ring binders, but was not invented until recently (the two-ring binder did not exist prior to 1854 and were first advertised in 1899. The critics would apparently have us believe that Joseph Smith and/or the witnesses just happened upon the most efficient binding design more than a century before anyone else! Such a pattern also matches a collection of gold plates found in Bavaria dating from 600 B.C.

Response to claim: "Smith dictated a translation using a seer stone in the bottom of a hat, which he placed over his face to view the words written within the stone"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith said he found the plates on September 22, 1823 at a hill near his home in Manchester, New York after an angel directed him to a buried stone box. The angel at first prevented Smith from taking the plates because he had not followed the angel's instructions. In 1827, on his fourth annual attempt to retrieve the plates, Smith returned home with a heavy object wrapped in a frock, which he then put in a box. Though he allowed others to heft the box, he said that the angel had forbidden him to show the plates to anyone until they had been translated from their original "reformed Egyptian" language. Smith dictated a translation using a seer stone in the bottom of a hat, which he placed over his face to view the words written within the stone.

Author's sources:

1. Although Smith's use of a single stone is well documented Wagoner (1982) , pp. 59–62, Smith said that his earliest translation used a set of stone spectacles called the Urim and Thummim, which he found with the plates Smith (Mulholland) , p. 5. Other than Smith himself, his mother was the sole known witness of the Urim and Thummim, which she said she had observed them when covered by a thin cloth Smith (1853) , p. 101.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

Joseph himself never spoke of the exact method by which the translation occurred—he only said that he translated by the "gift and power of God." It was David Whitmer (who, as far as we know, never attempted to translate) who spoke in detail near the end of his life of Joseph reading words off the stone. We do not know if this is Whitmer's assumption or whether Joseph told him this.

There is evidence that Joseph began the translation—specifically, the production of the 116 pages of manuscript that were lost—using the Nephite Interpreters that were found with the plates. Joseph appears to have switched to using the seer stone after the loss of the manuscript, and performed the bulk of the Book of Mormon translation using this method. Both the Nephite Interpreters and the seer stone were referred to at various times as the "Urim and Thummim."

Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Introduction

Response to claim: "Smith published the translation in 1830 as the Book of Mormon"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith published the translation in 1830 as the Book of Mormon.

Author's sources:

1. None provided

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: Harris "used to practice a good deal of his characteristic jargon and 'seeing with the spiritual eye,' and the like"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith eventually obtained testimonies from eleven men, known as the Book of Mormon witnesses, who said they had seen the plates.

Author's sources:

1. Critics question whether one of these witnesses, Martin Harris, physically saw the plates. Although Harris continued to testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon even when he was estranged from the church, at least during the early years of the movement, he "seems to have repeatedly admitted the internal, subjective nature of his visionary experience." Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2: 255. The foreman in the Palmyra printing office that produced the first Book of Mormon said that Harris "used to practice a good deal of his characteristic jargon and 'seeing with the spiritual eye,' and the like." Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism (New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1867), 71 in EMD, 3: 122. John H. Gilbert, the typesetter for most of the book, said that he had asked Harris, "Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?" According to Gilbert, Harris "looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, 'No, I saw them with a spiritual eye." John H. Gilbert, "Memorandum," 8 September 1892, in EMD, 2: 548. Two other Palmyra residents said that Harris told them that he had seen the plates with "the eye of faith" or "spiritual eyes." Martin Harris interviews with John A. Clark, 1827 & 1828 in EMD, 2: 270; Jesse Townsend to Phineas Stiles, 24 December 1833, in EMD, 3: 22. In 1838, Harris is said to have told an Ohio congregation that "he never saw the plates with his natural eyes, only in vision or imagination." Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 April 1838 in EMD, 2: 291. A neighbor of Harris in Kirtland, Ohio, said that Harris "never claimed to have seen [the plates] with his natural eyes, only spiritual vision." Reuben P. Harmon statement, c. 1885, in EMD, 2: 385.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The footnotes only focus on third-hand statements related to Martin Harris, while ignoring the many statements that Harris made in which he stated that he actually saw the plates with his own eyes

Question: Did Martin Harris tell people that he did not see the plates with his natural eyes, but rather the "eye of faith"?

A former pastor, John A. Clark, said that a "gentleman in Palmyra" told him that Harris said that he saw the plates with the "eye of faith"

John A. Clark, a former pastor who considered Joseph Smith a fraud and the Book of Mormon “an imposture,” states,

To know how much this testimony [of three witnesses] is worth I will state one fact. A gentleman in Palmyra, bred to the law, a professor of religion, and of undoubted veracity told me that on one occasion, he appealed to Harris and asked him directly,-”Did you see those plates?” Harris replied, he did. “Did you see the plates, and the engraving on them with your bodily eyes?” Harris replied, “Yes, I saw them with my eyes,-they were shown unto me by the power of God and not of man.” “But did you see them with your natural,-your bodily eyes, just as you see this pencil-case in my hand? Now say no or yes to this.” Harris replied,-”Why I did not see them as I do that pencil-case, yet I saw them with the eye of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see any thing around me,-though at the time they were covered over with a cloth.

John A. Clark did not interview Martin Harris - he was repeating what someone else told him

The source cited is “Martin Harris interviews with John A. Clark, 1827 & 1828,” Early Mormon Documents 2:270. However, rather than being an interview between Clark and Harris, as implied by the title of reference work using in the citation, Clark’s actual statement clearly says that he received his information from a “gentleman in Palmyra…a professor of religion,” who said that he had talked with Harris. This is not an interview between Clark and Harris.

Larry E. Morris notes that the “claim that ‘Harris told John A. Clark’ is not accurate. This is not secondhand testimony but thirdhand—’he said that he said that he said.’….As if that weren’t enough, Clark does not name his source—making it impossible to judge that person’s honesty or reliability. What we have is a thirdhand, anonymous account of what Martin Harris supposedly said.” (Larry E. Morris, FARMS Review, Vol. 15, Issue 1.)

Clark's account mixes elements from both before and after Harris viewed the plates as one of the Three Witnesses and portrays Harris as contradicting himself

The two elements that are mixed together in Clark's account are the following:

1. Martin Harris said that he only saw the plates through the "eye of faith" when they were covered with a cloth prior to his experience as a witness.
2. Martin Harris saw the plates uncovered as one of the three witnesses.

Note also that the date assigned to these comments places them prior to the publication of the Book of Mormon, yet Clark’s statement appears to include elements from both before and after Harris viewed the plates as a witness. Harris “saw them” with his eyes when he acted as one of the Three Witnesses, but he only saw them through the “eye of faith” when they were covered with a cloth prior to his being a witness. Clark’s third-hand hostile relation of another hostile source, makes no distinction between these events, and instead portrays Harris as contradicting himself.

When Martin Harris said that he had seen the angel and the plates with his "spiritual eyes" or with an "eye of faith" he may have simply been employing some scriptural language that he was familiar with. Such statements do not mean that the angel and the plates were imaginary, hallucinatory, or just an inner mental image—the earliest accounts of Martin Harris' testimony makes the literal nature of the experience unmistakable.

Rather than being hallucinatory or "merely" spiritual, Martin claimed that the plates and angel were seen by physical eyes that had been enhanced by the power of God to view more objects than a mortal could normally see (cf. D&C 76꞉12; D&C 67꞉10-13).

Question: Did Martin Harris tell people that he only saw the plates with his "spiritual eye"?

John H. Gilbert, who printed the Book of Mormon, reported that Harris said that he saw the plates with his "spiritual eye"

John H. Gilbert:

Martin was in the office when I finished setting up the testimony of the three witnesses,—(Harris—Cowdery and Whitmer—) I said to him,—"Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?" Martin looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, "No, I saw them with a spir[i]tual eye."

Pomeroy Tucker told of Harris using the phrase "seeing with the spiritual eye"

Pomeroy Tucker in his book Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism (1867) also refers to Harris using the phrase "spiritual eye":

How to reconcile the act of Harris in signing his name to such a statement, in view of the character of honesty which had always been conceded to him, could never be easily explained. In reply to uncharitable suggestions of his neighbors, he used to practise a good deal of his characteristic jargon about "seeing with the spiritual eye," and the like.

Martin elsewhere emphasized that the vision was also with the "natural eye," to enable them to "testify of it to the world"

In 1875, Martin said:

"The Prophet Joseph Smith, and Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer and myself, went into a little grove to pray to obtain a promise that we should behold it with our eyes natural eyes, that we could testify of it to the world (emphasis added)."

Harris did not, then, see "spiritual eye" and "natural eye" as mutually exclusive categories. Both described something about the witness experience.

Question: Why would Martin Harris use the phrases "eye of faith" or "spiritual eye" to describe his visionary experience?

Martin Harris was using scriptural language to describe his visionary experience

Why did Martin Harris use the particular phraseology that he did in describing his experience? Perhaps the answer lies in another passage found in the book of Ether 12꞉19.

And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad.

Here it is noted that those people who have "exceedingly strong" faith can see things "within the veil." But even though they see things in the spiritual realm "with their eyes" it is described as beholding things with "an eye of faith."

Another possibility can be seen in the text of Moses 1꞉11. It reads:

But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face.

This dovetails nicely with the description of David Whitmer who "explained that he saw the plates, and with his natural eyes, but he had to be prepared for it—that he and the other witnesses were overshadowed by the power of God."

Question: Do Martin Harris's statements related to the "spiritual eye" or "eye of faith" contradict the reality of his witness?

Some wish to make it appear as though the statements made by Martin Harris about the Three Witnesses’ manifestation discount its reality. Doing so pulls Harris’ statements out of their proper context. This vital viewpoint can be regained by simply taking a look at several passages from the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants—which all predate Martin’s public statements about the nature of his experience.

The scriptural witnesses

Ether 5꞉2–3

This prophetic passage had a direct application to Martin Harris as one of the Three Witnesses. It said: “the plates . . . . unto three shall they be shown by the power of God”

D&C 5꞉11,13,24–26

“unto [three of my servants] I will show these things . . . . I will give them power that they may behold and view these things as they are.” Speaking specifically of Martin Harris: “then will I grant unto him a view of the things which he desires to see. And then he shall say unto the people of this generation: Behold, I have seen the things which the Lord hath shown unto Joseph Smith, Jun., and I know of a surety that they are true, for I have seen them, for they have been shown unto me by the power of God and not of man. And I the Lord command him, my servant Martin Harris, that he shall say no more unto them concerning these things, except he shall say: I have seen them, and they have been shown unto me by the power of God; and these are the words which he shall say.”

D&C 17꞉1–3,5

All three of the witnesses were told: “you shall have a view of the plates . . . . And it is by your faith that you shall obtain a view of them, even by that faith which was had by the prophets of old . . . . And after that you have obtained faith, and have seen them with your eyes, you shall testify of them . . . . And ye shall testify that you have seen them, even as my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., has seen them; for it is by my power that he has seen them, and it is because he had faith”

From these scriptural texts it is evident that:

• The Three Witnesses were required by God to exercise faith like “the prophets of old” in order to view the angel and the plates (cf. Moroni 7꞉37; D&C 20꞉6).
• God would exercise His power to enable the Three Witnesses to see things that were not usually visible to mortal eyes.
• Nevertheless, the Three Witnesses would see the angel and the plates “with [their] eyes” and “as they are” in objective reality.

Contemporary witnesses

Joseph Smith was an eyewitness to what Martin Harris said at the exact moment that the manifestation took place. He reported that Martin's words were: "Tis enough; mine eyes have beheld". Another eyewitness, named Alma Jensen, saw Martin Harris point to his physical eyes while testifying that he had seen both the angel and the plates.

Oliver Cowdery wrote a letter to a skeptical author in November 1829, and spoke for both himself and Harris on the question of whether there was some trickery or "juggling" at work:

"It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, [who] ascend [descended I suppose] out of the midst of heaven. Now if this is human juggling—judge ye".

Martin Harris: "The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen and I have heard what I have heard"

George Godfrey, and Martin Harris's response to him, after Godfrey suggested that Harris had been deceived:

A few hours before his death and when he was so weak and enfeebled that he was unable to recognize me or anyone, and knew not to whom he was speaking, I asked him if he did not feel that there was an element at least, of fraudulence and deception in the things that were written and told of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, and he replied as he had always done so many, many times in my hearing the same spirit he always manifested when enjoying health and vigor and said: ‘The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is written. An angel appeared to me and others and testified to the truthfulness of the record, and had I been willing to have perjured myself and sworn falsely to the testimony I now bear I could have been a rich man, but I could not have testified other than I have done and am now doing for these things are true.

George Mantle (1888): Martin Harris said "Do you know that is the sun shining on us? Because as sure as you know that...he translated that book by the power of God"

When in England to preach for an LDS splinter group, Martin Harris was ejected from a meeting of Latter-day Saints. He left, and began to loudly criticize the Church leadership. Critics of Mormonism arrived quickly.

George Mantle to Marietta Walker, 26 December 1888:

When we came out of the meeting Martin Harris was beset with a crowd in the street, expecting he would furnish them with material to war against Mormonism; but when asked if Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, he answered yes; and when asked if the Book of Mormon was true, this was his answer: "Do you know that is the sun shining on us? Because as sure as you know that, I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and that he translated that book by the power of God."

Edward Stevenson (1870): Martin Harris said "my belief is swallowed up in knowledge; for I want to say to you that as the Lord lives I do know that I stood with the Prophet Joseph Smith in the presence of the angel"

Elder Edward Stevenson reported in 1870:

On one occasion several of his old acquaintances made an effort to get him tipsy by treating him to some wine. When they thought he was in a good mood for talk they put the question very carefully to him, ‘Well, now, Martin, we want you to be frank and candid with us in regard to this story of your seeing an angel and the golden plates of the Book of Mormon that are so much talked about. We have always taken you to be an honest good farmer and neighbor of ours but could not believe that you did see an angel. Now, Martin, do you really believe that you did see an angel, when you were awake?’ ‘No,’ said Martin, ‘I do not believe it.’ The crowd were delighted, but soon a different feeling prevailed, as Martin true to his trust, said, ‘Gentlemen, what I have said is true, from the fact that my belief is swallowed up in knowledge; for I want to say to you that as the Lord lives I do know that I stood with the Prophet Joseph Smith in the presence of the angel, and it was the brightness of day.”

Response to claim: "His remark that a plate was not quite as thick as common tin may have been meant to divert attention from the possibility that they were actually made from some material otherwise readily available to him"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

After the translation was complete, Smith said he returned the plates to their angelic guardian. Therefore, if the plates existed, they cannot now be examined. Latter Day Saints believe the account of the golden plates as a matter of faith, while critics often assert that either Smith manufactured the plates himself

Author's sources:

1. Vogel, 98: "His remark that a plate was not quite as thick as common tin may have been meant to divert attention from the possibility that they were actually made from some material otherwise readily available to him. Indeed, his prohibition against visual inspection seems contrived to the skeptic who might explain that the would-be prophet constructed a set of plates to be felt through a cloth."

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The footnote is pure speculation on the part of the author.

Response to claim: "the Book of Mormon witnesses based their testimony on visions rather than physical experience"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

or that the Book of Mormon witnesses based their testimony on visions rather than physical experience.

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

Question: What did the other witnesses say regarding "spiritual" versus "natural" viewing of the plates?

David Whitmer clarified the idea of "spiritual" versus "natural" viewing of the plates

David Whitmer helps clear up the "spiritual" vs. "natural" viewing of the plates. Responding to the questions of Anthony Metcalf (the same Metcalf who interviewed Harris) Whitmer wrote:

In regards to my testimony to the visitation of the angel, who declared to us three witnesses that the Book of Mormon is true, I have this to say: Of course we were in the spirit when we had the view, for no man can behold the face of an angel, except in a spiritual view, but we were in the body also, and everything was as natural to us, as it is at any time. Martin Harris, you say, called it 'being in vision.' We read in the Scriptures, Cornelius saw, in a vision, an angel of God. Daniel saw an angel in a vision; also in other places it states they saw an angel in the spirit. A bright light enveloped us where we were, that filled at noon day, and there in a vision, or in the spirit, we saw and heard just as it is stated in my testimony in the Book of Mormon. I am now passed eighty-two years old, and I have a brother, J. J. Snyder, to do my writing for me, at my dictation. [Signed] David Whitmer.

And to leave absolutely no doubt about the nature of the manifestation Whitmer explained, "I was not under any hallucination . . . . I saw with these eyes."

The young James Henry Moyle would write of a visit he had with Whitmer:

I inquired of those whom I met: What kind of man is David Whitmer? From all I received the same response, that he was a good citizen, an honest man, and that he was highly respected in the community....

I wanted to know from him...what he knew about the Book of Mormon, and what about the testimony he had published to the world concerning it. He told me in all the solemnity of his advanced years, that the testimony he had given to the world, and which was published in the Book of Mormon, was true, every word of it, and that he had never deviated or departed from any particular from that testimony, and that nothing int he world could separate him from the sacred message that was delivered to him. I still wondered if it was no possible that he could have been deceived. I wondered if there was not something in that psychological operation which some offer as the cause of these miraculous declarations and by which he could have been deceived...so I induced him to relate to me, under such cross-examination as I was able to interpose [Moyle had just graduated from law school], every detail of what took place. He described minutely the spot in the woods, the large log that separated him from the angel, and that he saw the plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated, that he handled them [this may be in error, given that the contemporaneous record says otherwise], and that he did hear the voice of God declare that the plates were correctly translated. I asked him if there was any possibility for him to have been deceived, and that it was all a mistake, but he said, "No."

He also wrote later:

He said that they (Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and Martin Harris) were out in the primitive woods in Western New York; that there was nothing between them and the Angel except a log that had fallen in the forest; that it was broad daylight with nothing to prevent either hearing or seeing all that took place...he did see and hear the Angel and heard the declaration that the plates had been correctly translated; that there was absolutely nothing to prevent his having a full, clear view of it all. I remember very distinctly asking him if there was anything unnatural or unusual about the surroundings or the atmosphere. He answered that question. I do not remember exactly the words he used, but he indicated that there was something of a haze or peculiarity about the atmosphere that surrounded them but nothing that would prevent his having a clear vision and knowledge of all that took place. He declared to me that the testimony which he published to the world was true and that he had never denied any part of it.

We note here that the experience is very literal and real--but there is also a difference in atmosphere or "haze" that renders it different from day-to-day life. This dovetails well with the Three Witnesses' insistence that there was a spiritual component to their experience, though it was also literal and "real."

Main articles:	James Henry Moyle's visit to David Whitmer
	David Whitmer quotes on literal nature of Three Witnesses
	Oliver Cowdery on literal nature of Three Witnesses

Question: How did newspaper accounts describe the nature of the witnesses experience?

Hostile newspaper accounts clearly stated that both Harris and Whitmer physically handled and examined the plates

Early hostile newspapers claimed that the witnesses' descriptions did not match, but were clear that both Harris and Whitmer had at some point physically handled and examined the plates:

Whitmar’s [sic] description of the Book of Mormon, differs entirely from that given by Harris; both of whom it would seem have been of late permitted, not only to see and handle it, but to examine its contents. Whitmar relates that he was led by Smith into an open field, on his father’s farm near Waterloo, when they found the book lying on the ground; Smith took it up and requested him to examine it, which he did for the space of half an hour or more, when he returned it to Smith, who placed it in its former position, alledging that the book was in the custody of another, intimating that some Divine agent would have it in safe keeping.

David, like Martin, had been charged with being deluded into thinking he had seen an angel and the plates. One observer remembers when David was so accused, and said:

How well and distinctly I remember the manner in which Elder Whitmer arose and drew himself up to his full height--a little over six feet--and said, in solemn and impressive tones: "No sir! I was not under any hallucination, nor was I deceived! I saw with these eyes, and I heard with these ears! I know whereof I speak!" (Joseph Smith III, et al., Interview, July 1884, Richmond Missouri, in Lyndon W. Cook, David Whitmer Interviews, 134-35)

On another occasion in which Whitmer was asked about the plates, the interviewer recorded:

He then explained that he saw the plates, and with his natural eyes, but he had to be prepared for it--that he and the other witnesses were overshadowed by the power of God and a halo of brightness indescribable.

Question: How did the apostle Paul describe spiritual experiences?

The apostle Paul understood the difficulty of describing spiritual experiences

Paul understood the difficulty of describing spiritual experiences when he wrote:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 2 Corinthians 12꞉2

Paul's vision was real, yet he was unsure whether he had the experience in or out of his body. Harris may have felt a similar experience. He knew the plates were real, yet he also knew that when the angel showed him the plates he was only able to see them by the power of God. On a separate occasion Harris testified to the reality of his vision. The scene as recorded by Edward Stevenson was instrumental in getting Harris to re-enter the Church.

On one occasion several of his old acquaintances made an effort to get him tipsy by treating him to some wine. When they thought he was in a good mood for talk they put the question very carefully to him, "Well, now, Martin, we want you to be frank and candid with us in regard to this story of your seeing an angel and the golden plates of the Book of Mormon that are so much talked about. We have always taken you to be an honest good farmer and neighbor of ours but could not believe that you did see an angel. Now, Martin, do you really believe that you did see an angel, when you were awake?" "No," said Martin, "I do not believe it." The crowd were delighted, but soon a different feeling prevailed, as Martin true to his trust, said, "Gentlemen, what I have said is true, from the fact that my belief is swallowed up in knowledge; for I want to say to you that as the Lord lives I do know that I stood with the Prophet Joseph Smith in the presence of the angel, and it was the brightness of day."

References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"

• Anthon, Charles, Howe, Eber Dudley (editor) Mormonism Unvailed: or, A Faithful Account of That Singular Imposition and Delusion, from Its Rise to the Present Time , Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press off-site .
• Bennett, James Gordon, Jr., Mormon Leaders at Their Mecca off-site .
• Bennett, James Gordon, Sr., Arrington, Leonard J. (editor) (1831), James Gordon Bennett's 1831 Report on 'The Mormonites' off-site .
• Benton, Abram W., Vogel, Dan (editor) Early Mormon Documents Signature Books .
• Bidamon, Emma Smith, Early Mormon Documents Signature Books .
• Burnett, David S., Something New.—Golden Bible off-site .
• Burnett, Stephen, Vogel, Dan (editor) (1838), Early Mormon Documents Signature Books .
• Bushman, Richard Lyman, (2005), Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling , New York: Knopf .
• Chase, Willard, Howe, Eber Dudley (editor) (1833), Mormonism Unvailed , Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press off-site .
• Clark, John A., (1842), Gleanings by the Way , Philadelphia: W.J. & J.K. Simmon off-site .
• Cobb, James T., The Hill Cumorah, And The Book Of Mormon. The Smith Family, Cowdery, Harris, and Other Old Neighbors—What They Know off-site .
• Cole, Abner, Gold Bible, No. 6 off-site .
• Cook, Lyndon W., (1991), David Whitmer Interviews: A Restoration Witness Grandin .
• Cowdery, Oliver, (1834), Letter [I] off-site .
• Cowdery, Oliver, (1834b), Letter III off-site .
• Cowdery, Oliver, (1835a), Letter IV off-site .
• Cowdery, Oliver, (1835b), Letter VIII off-site .
• Crystal, David, (1997), The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language Cambridge University Press .
• (1996), The World's Writing Systems Oxford University Press .
• Gilbert, John H., (1892), Recollections of John H. Gilbert , Palmyra, New York: typescript located in Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University off-site .
• Givens, Terryl L., (2003), By the Hand of Mormon: The American Scripture that Launched a New World Religion Oxford University Press .
• Grandin, E.B., Editor's note off-site .
• Hadley, Jonathan A., Golden Bible off-site .
• Hale, Isaac, Howe, Eber Dudley (editor) (1834), Mormonism Unvailed , Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press off-site .
• Hamblin, William J., (2007), Sacred Writing on Metal Plates in the Ancient Mediterranean off-site .
• Harris, Abigail, Howe, Eber Dudley (editor) (1833), Mormonism Unvailed , Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press off-site .
• Harris, Henry, Howe, Eber Dudley (editor) (1833), Mormonism Unvailed , Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press off-site .
• Harris, Martin, (1859), Mormonism, No. II off-site .
• Howe, Eber Dudley, (1834), Mormonism Unvailed Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press off-site .
• Knight, Joseph, Sr., Jessee, Dean (editor) (1833), Joseph Knight's Recollection of Early Mormon History off-site .
• Lapham, [La]Fayette, (1870), Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet, Forty years Ago. His Account of the Finding of the Sacred Plates off-site .
• Mormon History off-site .
• Mather, Frederic G., (1880), Early Days of Mormonism off-site .
• Metcalfe, Brent Lee, (1993), Apologetic and Critical Assumptions about Book of Mormon Historicity off-site .
• Packer, J. Cameron, (2004), Cumorah's Cave Maxwell Institute off-site .
• Palmer, Grant H., (2002), An Insider's View of Mormon Origins Signature Books .
• Parrish, Warren, (1838), Letter from W. Parrish, Kirtland The Evangelist off-site , republished in Vogel, Dan (editor) (1999), Early Mormon Documents , Salt Lake City: Signature Books .
• Phelps, , (1833), A Book of Commandments, for the Government of the Church of Christ Zion: William Wines Phelps & Co. off-site .
• Poulson, P. Wilhelm, Letter to the editor. .
• Pratt, Orson, (1856), The Faith and Visions of the Ancient Saints—The Same Great Blessing to be Enjoyed by the Latter-day Saints off-site .
• Pratt, Orson, (1859), Evidences of the Bible and Book of Mormon Compared off-site .
• Pratt, Orson, (1877), King Limhi's Enquiry, from the Book of Mormon' off-site .
• Putnam, Read H., Were the Golden Plates Made of Tumbaga? off-site .
• Quinn, D. Michael, (1998), Early Mormonism and the Magic World View , Salt Lake City: Signature Books .
• Riley, I. Woodbridge, (1903), The Founder of Mormonism: A Psychological Study of Joseph Smith, Jr. , New York: Dodd, Mead & Co. off-site
• Roberts, B. H. (editor) (1902), History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , Salt Lake City: Deseret News off-site .
• Roberts, B. H. (editor) (1905), History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , Salt Lake City: Deseret News off-site .
• Roberts, B. H. (editor) (1908), History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , Salt Lake City: Deseret News off-site .
• Robinson, Andrew, (2002), Lost Languages: The Enigma of the World's Undeciphered Scripts McGraw Hill .
• Salisbury, Katharine Smith, Walker, Kyle R. (editor) Katharine Smith Salisbury's Recollections of Joseph's Meetings with Moroni off-site .
• Saunders, Benjamin, Vogel, Dan (editor) (1884a), Early Mormon Documents , Salt Lake City: Signature Books .
• Saunders, Lorenzo, Vogel, Dan (editor) (1884b), Early Mormon Documents , Salt Lake City: Signature Books .
• Saunders, Orson, Bennett, James Gordon, Jr. (editor) Mormon Leaders at Their Mecca off-site .
• Smith, Joseph III, last Testimony of Sister Emma off-site .
• Smith, Joseph, Jr., (1830), The Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon, Upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi , Palmyra, New York: E. B. Grandin off-site .
• Smith, Joseph, Jr., Jessee, Dean C (editor) (1832), Personal Writings of Joseph Smith , Salt Lake City: Deseret Book off-site .
• (1835), Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints: Carefully Selected from the Revelations of God , Kirtland, Ohio: F. G. Williams & Co off-site .
• Smith, Joseph, Jr., (1838a), History of the Church , copied to Jessee, Dean C (editor) (1839–1843), Personal Writings of Joseph Smith Deseret Book .
• Smith, Joseph, Jr., (1838b), Editor's note off-site .
• Smith, Joseph, Jr., Church History [Wentworth Letter] , Nauvoo, Illinois: off-site .
• Smith, Joseph, Sr., To the Public off-site .
• Smith, Lucy Mack, Casawall, Henry (editor) (1842b), The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842 , London: J.G.F. & J. Rivington off-site .
• Smith, Lucy Mack, (1853), Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and His Progenitors for Many Generations Liverpool: S.W. Richards off-site .
• Smith, William, (1883), William Smith on Mormonism: A True Account of the Origin of the Book of Mormon' Lamoni, Iowa: RLDS Church off-site .
• Smith, William, (1884), The Old Soldier's Testimony off-site .
• Stevenson, Edward, (1882), One of the Three Witnesses: Incidents in the Life of Martin Harris off-site .
• Storey, Wilbur F., Interview with David Whitmer off-site .
• Tvedtnes, John A, (1990), Review of Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon by Brenton G. Yorgason Maxwell Institute off-site .
• Tucker, Pomeroy, (1867), Origin, Rise and Progress of Mormonism , New York: D. Appleton off-site .
• Turner, Orasmus, (1851), History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, and Morris' Reserve , Rochester, New York: William Alling off-site .
• Wade, B., An Interesting Document off-site .
• {{{title}}} .
• Walker, Ronald W., (1986), Martin Harris: Mormonism's Early Convert off-site .
• Whitmer, , The Golden Tables off-site .
• Whitmer, David, (1887), An Address to All Believers in Christ By A Witness to the Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon' , Richmond, Missouri: David Whitmer off-site .
• Whitmer, David, An Old Mormon's Closing Hours: David Whitmer, One of the Pioneers of That Faith, Passing Away off-site .
• Williams, Stephen, (1991), Fantastic Archaeology: The Wild Side of North American Prehistory University of Pennsylvania Press .
• Woodard, Roger D. (editor) (2004), The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages Cambridge University Press .
• Young, Brigham, Watt, G.D. (editor) Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, His Two Counsellors, the Twelve Apostles, and Others , Liverpool: F.D. & S.W. Richards off-site .
• Young, Brigham, Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, His Two Counselors, and the Twelve Apostles , Liverpool: William Budge .

Further reading

FAIR Answers—back to home page

Mormonism and Wikipedia

<onlyinclude>

FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles

FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.

Who can edit Wikipedia articles?

Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.

Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles

FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)

Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?

Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.

Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?

Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.

Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?

Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.

FairMormon's analysis of LDS-related Wikipedia articles

We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:

1. Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
2. Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
3. Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
4. If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
5. If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"

Roger Nicholson,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)

The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.

Click here to view the complete article

⍗

Wikipedia and anti-Mormon literature

Key sources	Roger Nicholson, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That 'Anyone Can Edit'," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 1/8 (14 September 2012). [151–190] link
Wiki links	Mormonism and Wikipedia Martin Harris—analysis of wikipedia treatment Oliver Cowdery—analysis of wikipedia treatment First Vision—analysis of wikipedia treatment Joseph Smith—analysis of wikipedia treatment Golden plates—analysis of wikipedia treatment Three Witnesses—analysis of wikipedia treatment
Online	"Wiki Wars: In battle to define beliefs, Mormons and foes wage battle on Wikipedia", Michael De Groote, Deseret News, January 30, 2011. "Wiki Wars: In battle to define beliefs, Mormons and foes wage battle on Wikipedia", Michael De Groote, Mormon Times, January 31, 2011. "Something Wiki This Way Comes: How collaborative editing is changing the face of online LDS apologetics", R. Scott Lloyd, Church News, August 8, 2011. Something Wiki This Way Comes: How Collaborative Editing is Changing the Face of Online LDS Apologetics. A close look at the challenges and history of editing LDS topics in a Wikipedia. This is a 2011 FAIR conference presentation by Roger Nicholson, in PDF format.
Navigators	Table of contents Abuse Bible Book of Abraham Book of Mormon CES Letter Church history Church finances Doctrine and Covenants First Vision Joseph Smith Latter-day Saint temples Mountain Meadows Massacre Plural marriage Prophets and leaders Scripture Brigham Young Anti-Mormon literature

</noinclude>

Copyright © 2005–2024 FAIR. This is not an official Web site of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The content of this page may not be copied, published, or redistributed without the prior written consent of FAIR.

We welcome your suggestions for improving the content of this FAIR Wiki article.

Sites we recommend: Mormon Scholars Testify: Messages of faith from scholars who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints