Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Origin and historicity"

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*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1830|p=538}}. Standard language references such as {{Harvtxt|Daniels|Bright|1996}}; {{Harvtxt|Crystal|1997}}; and {{Harvtxt|Woodard|2004}} contain no reference to "reformed Egyptian". "Reformed Egyptian" is also not discussed in {{Harvtxt|Robinson|2002}}, although it is mentioned in {{harvtxt|Williams|1991}}.
 
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1830|p=538}}. Standard language references such as {{Harvtxt|Daniels|Bright|1996}}; {{Harvtxt|Crystal|1997}}; and {{Harvtxt|Woodard|2004}} contain no reference to "reformed Egyptian". "Reformed Egyptian" is also not discussed in {{Harvtxt|Robinson|2002}}, although it is mentioned in {{harvtxt|Williams|1991}}.
 
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*{{WikipediaNPOV}}The term "reformed Egyptian" is not the ''name'' of a language—it is a reference to the fact that the Egyptian characters used has been "reformed." Yet, the wiki editors attempt to treat it as if it were supposed to be a known language, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that nobody would know of it. Therefore, it is absurd to state in the footnotes that there is no reference to "reformed Egyptian" or "Reformed Egyptian" in modern language texts. It is also no surprise that such a "language" is "unknown to linguists or Egyptologists." This is simply a transparent attempt by the wiki editors to reinforce the idea that "reformed Egyptian" could not have existed.
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*{{WikipediaNPOV|editor=Dougweller|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=194386905&oldid=194386724}}The term "reformed Egyptian" is not the ''name'' of a language—it is a reference to the fact that the Egyptian characters used has been "reformed." Yet, the wiki editors attempt to treat it as if it were supposed to be a known language, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that nobody would know of it. Therefore, it is absurd to state in the footnotes that there is no reference to "reformed Egyptian" or "Reformed Egyptian" in modern language texts. It is also no surprise that such a "language" is "unknown to linguists or Egyptologists." This is simply a transparent attempt by the wiki editors to reinforce the idea that "reformed Egyptian" could not have existed.
 
*{{Detail|Reformed Egyptian}}
 
*{{Detail|Reformed Egyptian}}
 
*It should also be noted that the first sentence is incorrect—the first portion of the Book of Mormon was not abridged by either Mormon or Moroni.
 
*It should also be noted that the first sentence is incorrect—the first portion of the Book of Mormon was not abridged by either Mormon or Moroni.

Revision as of 17:38, 24 December 2009


Introduction
A FairMormon Analysis of Wikipedia: Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates
 A work by a collaboration of authors (Link to Wikipedia article here) 		Story
The name Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.. Wikipedia content is copied and made available under the GNU Free Documentation License.

An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" (Version December 10, 2009)

Origin and historicity

See also: Origin of the Book of Mormon and Historicity of the Book of Mormon
- Wikipedia Main Article: Golden plates– Wikipedia Footnotes: Golden plates–Notes A FAIR Opinion
  • In the words of LDS historian Richard Bushman, "For most modern readers, the [golden] plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact."
  • Bushman 2005 p. 58
  • Note that this is the second time that this citation has been used. It is also used in the introduction. It is repeated again later in the article.
  • Because Joseph Smith said he returned the plates to an angel after he finished translating them, their authenticity—if they ever existed—cannot be determined by direct physical examination. Most believing Mormons believe in the golden plates as a matter of faith.
  • No citation given.
  •  Violates Wikipedia: Neutral Point-of-View off-site— All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources.

    The qualifier "if they ever existed" is unnecessary.
  •  Amusing prose
    "Most believing Mormons believe..."
  • Most believing Mormons accept the existence of the golden plates because Joseph, the Three and the Eight witnesses said that they saw them.
  • Only close associates of Joseph Smith were allowed to become official witnesses to the plates; he invited no strangers, or women, to view them. These witnesses, first a group of three, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, and then a group of eight—five members of the Whitmer family, Joseph Smith's father, and two of his brothers, Hyrum and Samuel—all said they "saw and hefted" the plates. See Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 23.
  •  Correct, per cited sources
  • It is interesting to note the emphasis on the closeness of the witnesses to Joseph Smith.
  • and the Book of Mormon exists as its reputed translation. Thus, Mormon apologists and Mormon critics can debate indirect evidence only: they may ask whether the Book of Mormon narrative is consistent with science and history and whether its witnesses are credible.
  • See generally Metcalfe (1993) , which outlines the main arguments for and against Book of Mormon authenticity.
  • Actually, Mormon apologists rely upon eyewitness testimony regarding the existence of the plates. Critics discount those statements.
  • Although not the basis of their faith, many Mormons take this research seriously. Mormon scholars have formed collaborations such as Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies to provide apologetic answers to critical research about the golden plates and topics in the field of Mormon studies. Among these topics, the credibility of the plates has been, according to Bushman, a "troublesome item."
  • "The Mormon sources constantly refer to the single most troublesome item in Joseph Smith's history, the gold plates on which the Book of Mormon was said to be written. For most modern readers, the plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact." Bushman . Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling, Mormon America: The Power and the Promise (HarperSanFrancisco, 1999) begin a chapter called "The Gold Bible" (259-277) with a question posed by liberal Mormon Brigham D. Madsen, "'Were there really gold plates and ministering angels, or was there just Joseph Smith seated at a table with his face in a hat dictating to a scribe a fictional account of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas?' Resolving that problem haunts loyal Mormons." (259)
  • Actually, most Latter-day Saints aren't even aware of any research in this area.
  • Note that this is the third time Bushman's quote about the plates being "beyond belief" has been employed.
  • The Book of Mormon itself portrays the golden plates as a historical record, engraved by two pre-Columbian prophet-historians from around the year AD 400: Mormon and his son Moroni. Mormon and Moroni, the book says, had abridged earlier historical records from other sets of metal plates. Their script, according to the book, was called "reformed Egyptian," a language unknown to linguists or Egyptologists.
  • Smith (1830) , p. 538. Standard language references such as Daniels (Bright) ; Crystal (1997) ; and Woodard (2004) contain no reference to "reformed Egyptian". "Reformed Egyptian" is also not discussed in Robinson (2002) , although it is mentioned in Williams (1991) .
  •  Violates Wikipedia: Neutral Point-of-View off-site— All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources.
    Violated by Dougweller —Diff: off-site
    The term "reformed Egyptian" is not the name of a language—it is a reference to the fact that the Egyptian characters used has been "reformed." Yet, the wiki editors attempt to treat it as if it were supposed to be a known language, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that nobody would know of it. Therefore, it is absurd to state in the footnotes that there is no reference to "reformed Egyptian" or "Reformed Egyptian" in modern language texts. It is also no surprise that such a "language" is "unknown to linguists or Egyptologists." This is simply a transparent attempt by the wiki editors to reinforce the idea that "reformed Egyptian" could not have existed.
  • For a detailed response, see: Reformed Egyptian
  • It should also be noted that the first sentence is incorrect—the first portion of the Book of Mormon was not abridged by either Mormon or Moroni.
  • According to the book, the language began as Egyptian,
  •  Correct, per cited sources
  • then was altered based on speech patterns.
  •  Correct, per cited sources
  • Historically, Latter Day Saint movement denominations have taught that the Book of Mormon's description of the plates' origin is accurate, and that the Book of Mormon is a translation of the plates.
  • Book of Mormon (LDS edition), Introduction (expressing the LDS view that the Book of Mormon "is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas", and that the book is a translation of the golden plates "into the English language".)
  •  Correct, per cited sources
  • The Community of Christ, however, while accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture, no longer takes an official position on the historicity of the golden plates.
  • McMurray, W. Grant, "They "Shall Blossom as the Rose": Native Americans and the Dream of Zion," an address delivered February 17, 2001, accessed on Community of Christ website, September 1, 2006 at http://web.archive.org/web/20070817021355/http://cofchrist.org/docs/NativeAmericanConference/keynote.asp ("The proper use of the Book of Mormon as sacred scripture has been under wide discussion in the 1970s and beyond, in part because of long-standing questions about its historicity and in part because of perceived theological inadequacies, including matters of race and ethnicity."). At the 2007 Community of Christ World Conference, President Stephen M. Veazey ruled a resolution to "reaffirm the Book of Mormon as a divinely inspired record" out of order. In so doing he stated that "while the Church affirms the Book of Mormon as scripture, and makes it available for study and use in various languages, we do not attempt to mandate the degree of belief or use. This position is in keeping with our longstanding tradition that belief in the Book of Mormon is not to be used as a test of fellowship or membership in the church." Andrew M. Shields, "Official Minutes of Business Session, Wednesday March 28, 2007," in 2007 World Conference Thursday Bulletin, March 29, 2007. Community of Christ, 2007.
  •  Correct, per cited sources
  • Moreover, even in the more theologically conservative LDS Church, some adherents who accept the Book of Mormon as inspired scripture do not believe it is a literal translation of a physical historical record.
  • "In the early 20th century, B. H. Roberts, historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), entertained the notion that Joseph Smith was capable of producing the Book of Mormon himself. In 1999, Richard N. Ostling, a religion journalist, wrote that within "the loyal Mormon community, there is a moderate intellectual group that believes the Book of Mormon does have ancient roots but, as part of the process of revelation properly understood, is expressed through nineteenth-century thought processes....an ancient text mediated through the mind of Joseph Smith" (Osling 1999, 264).
  •  Citation abuse— The meaning of a source quotation has been altered, or the source used does not support the author's conclusion.

    The citation of B.H. Roberts implies that he did not believe the Book of Mormon to be a literal translation. This is an issue that critics and believers have long debated based upon B.H. Roberts' Studies of the Book of Mormon. Given that the issue of Roberts' state of belief is by no means settled, it is incorrect for the wiki article to establish the position the Roberts lost his belief in the Book of Mormon as a historical record. This reflects the belief of the wiki editor, but is not supportable as a fact.
  • Non-believers and some liberal Mormons have advanced naturalistic explanations for the story of the plates. For example, it has been theorized that the plates were fashioned by Joseph Smith or one of his associates,
  • Vogel (2004) , pp. 98, 600 note 65 (suggesting the plates were made of common tin). To former Mormon Dan Vogel, "construction of such a book would have been relatively easy. There were scraps of tin available on the Smith property and elsewhere in the vicinity, and during the several hours Joseph was separated from Emma the night they went to the hill and on other occasions, he could have easily set up shop in the cave on the other side of the hill or in some corner of the forest. Using a pair of metal shears, it would have been easy to cut a number of 6 x 8 sheets....A book made of tin plates of the dimensions ( 6 x 8 x 6 inches) described by Smith would have weighed between fifty and sixty pounds, corresponding to the weight that was mentioned by eye-witness accounts."
  •  Insufficient Citation— The citation does not include sufficient material to make the author's meaning clear.

    We see no "liberal Mormons" quoted in this or the subsequent sections.
  • that Joseph Smith had the ability to convince others of their existence through illusions or hypnosis,
  • Riley (1903) , p. 211 (proposing the theory that Smith hypnotized his followers in a way that suggested to them that they had seen the plates).
  •  Correct, per cited sources
  • or that the plates were mystical and should be understood in the context of Smith's historical era, when magic was an accepted part of reality.
  • Metcalfe (1993) , p. 178.
  •  Citation abuse— The meaning of a source quotation has been altered, or the source used does not support the author's conclusion.

    The cited source does not use the words "mystical" or "magical" to describe the plates.

References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"
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