Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Brigham Says to "Cut Their Throats""

m (GLSBot: Adding headers to all articles)
m (top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}})
 
(16 intermediate revisions by 4 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Articles FAIR copyright}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}
+
{{Main Page}}  
__NOTOC__
+
{{H1
{{FAIRAnalysisHeader
+
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Brigham Says to "Cut Their Throats"
|title=[[../../]]
+
|H=Brigham says to "Cut Their Throats"
|author=Richard Abanes
+
|S=
|noauthor=
+
|L1=
|section=[[../../Use of sources|Use of sources]], Brigham Says to "Cut Their Throats"
+
|T=[[../../|One Nation Under Gods]]
|previous=[[../Brigham and bowie knife|Brigham and the bowie knife - Threatening apostates?]]
+
|A=Richard Abanes
|next=[[../Orders to Starve Gentiles|Orders to Starve Gentiles]]
+
|<=[[../Brigham and bowie knife|Brigham and the bowie knife - Threatening apostates?]]
|notes={{AuthorsDisclaimer}}
+
|>=[[../Orders to Starve Gentiles|Orders to Starve Gentiles]]
 
}}
 
}}
=Brigham Says to "Cut Their Throats"=
+
{{Author claims label}}
==The Quote==
+
 
 
===''One Nation under Gods'', page 236-237 (hardback)===
 
===''One Nation under Gods'', page 236-237 (hardback)===
 
Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst of sinners, '''although every reprobate received the same penalty. As Brigham instructed his flock''': "If any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats."53 {{ea}}
 
Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst of sinners, '''although every reprobate received the same penalty. As Brigham instructed his flock''': "If any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats."53 {{ea}}
Line 18: Line 18:
 
Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst sinners, '''although every reprobate, risked similar justice. Young once said''': "It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken...and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats."55 {{ea}}
 
Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst sinners, '''although every reprobate, risked similar justice. Young once said''': "It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken...and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats."55 {{ea}}
  
==The Reference==
+
{{Author sources label}}
 +
 
 
===Endnote 53, page 563 (hardback); page 561 (paperback)===
 
===Endnote 53, page 563 (hardback); page 561 (paperback)===
 
{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=47|vol=2|start=311}}.
 
{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=47|vol=2|start=311}}.
  
==The Problems==
+
{{:Question: Did Brigham Young advocate that apostates have their throats cut?}}
 +
</onlyinclude>
 +
{{endnotes sources}}
 +
{{SeeAlso|Blood_atonement#Brigham_Young.27s_preaching_style|l1=Brigham Young's preaching style}}
  
{{Epigraph|There is also a man down the street who tried to exhibit the endowments to a party who was here. You will see what becomes of that man. Do not touch him. He has forfeited every right and title to eternal life; but let him alone, and you will see by and by what will become of him. His heart will ache, and so will the heart of every apostate that fights against Zion; they will destroy themselves. It is a mistaken idea that God destroys people, or that the Saints wish to destroy them. It is not so. The seeds of sin which are in them are sufficient to accomplish their destruction.<br><br> - {{JDfairwiki|vol=11|start=262|disc=39|author=Brigham Young}} (12 August 1866).}}
 
  
We note that the paperback corrects the erroneous statement that Brigham "instructed" people to "cut their throats." Here is the more complete quote from Brigham's discourse, in context (the portion ONUG quotes is in bold):
 
  
<blockquote>
 
'''It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken''', viz., mobocracy, '''and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats.''' (All the people said, Amen.) This would be rooting out that treatment to wicked men, which they had measured to innocent persons. We could meet them on their own ground, when they will not honor the law, but will kill the Prophets and destroy the innocent. They could drive the innocent from their homes, take their houses and farms, cattle and goods, and destroy men, women, and children, walking over the laws of the United States, trampling them under their feet, and not honoring a single law. Suppose I should follow the example they have shown us, and say, "Latter-day Saints, do ye likewise, and bid defiance to the whole clan of such men?"
 
</blockquote>
 
  
So, was Brigham giving ''instructions''? No! When the matter was put before him, regarding what should be done to those who had come and robbed, murdered and destroyed (he had just been asked that morning), Brigham said "here's how we '''COULD''' approach it," so to speak. "Suppose I should follow the example they have shown us," he says. "I will tell you how it '''COULD''' be done." These were not instructions, by any means. Nowhere in this statement of Brigham's is he advocating the cutting of anyone's throat.
 
 
{{SeeAlso|Blood_atonement#Brigham_Young.27s_preaching_style|l1=Brigham Young's preaching style}}
 
 
=Further reading=
 
{{FAIRAnalysisWiki}}
 
 
[[Category:Brigham Young]]
 
[[Category:Brigham Young]]
 
[[fr:Specific works/One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Brigham Says to "Cut Their Throats"]]
 

Latest revision as of 13:15, 13 April 2024

Brigham says to "Cut Their Throats"



A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods, a work by author: Richard Abanes

Author's Claims


One Nation under Gods, page 236-237 (hardback)

Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst of sinners, although every reprobate received the same penalty. As Brigham instructed his flock: "If any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats."53 (emphasis added)

One Nation under Gods, page 236-237 (paperback)

Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst sinners, although every reprobate, risked similar justice. Young once said: "It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken...and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats."55 (emphasis added)

Author's Sources


Endnote 53, page 563 (hardback); page 561 (paperback)

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 2:311..


Question: Did Brigham Young advocate that apostates have their throats cut?

Nowhere in this statement of Brigham's is he advocating the cutting of anyone's throat

The book One Nation Under Gods claims that "Apostates certainly were viewed as the worst sinners, although every reprobate, risked similar justice. Young once said: 'It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken...and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats.'" [1]

We note that the paperback corrects the erroneous statement that Brigham "instructed" people to "cut their throats." Here is the more complete quote from Brigham's discourse, in context (the portion ONUG quotes is in bold):

It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken, viz., mobocracy, and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats. (All the people said, Amen.) This would be rooting out that treatment to wicked men, which they had measured to innocent persons. We could meet them on their own ground, when they will not honor the law, but will kill the Prophets and destroy the innocent. They could drive the innocent from their homes, take their houses and farms, cattle and goods, and destroy men, women, and children, walking over the laws of the United States, trampling them under their feet, and not honoring a single law. Suppose I should follow the example they have shown us, and say, "Latter-day Saints, do ye likewise, and bid defiance to the whole clan of such men?"

So, was Brigham giving instructions? No! When the matter was put before him, regarding what should be done to those who had come and robbed, murdered and destroyed (he had just been asked that morning), Brigham said "here's how we COULD approach it," so to speak. "Suppose I should follow the example they have shown us," he says. "I will tell you how it COULD be done." These were not instructions, by any means. Nowhere in this statement of Brigham's is he advocating the cutting of anyone's throat.


Notes

  1. Richard Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, Endnote 53, page 563 (hardback); page 561 (paperback).