Diferencia entre revisiones de «La crítica del Mormonismo/Sitios web/PiensaMormón/Corriendo con Planchas de Oro»

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{{PiensaMormónReclamaciónÍndice
 
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|reclamación=The critics say that Joseph could not have possibly transported and worked with these heavy 200 pound plates.  Also pure gold would be too malleable to be useful for permanent engraving....In this instance [MormonThink] disagree[s] with the critics' premise. We don't feel that the plates had to be made of solid gold. Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold. The witnesses described them as having the 'appearance of gold'....We do however, wonder why the angel would give Joseph specific instruction that he could not use the plates for personal gain if they were not made of gold....So using the statements of the witnesses, it seems logical that the plates weighed about 50 pounds give or take 10 pounds. We summarily reject the critics' arguments that the plates must have weighed 200 pounds.
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|reclamación=En este caso no estamos [PiensaMormón] de acuerdo con la premisa de los críticos. No nos sentimos que las placas tenían que ser de oro macizo. Aunque las placas se refieren a menudo como “planchas de oro, no necesariamente tenían que ser de oro puro. Los testigos los describieron como que tenían la “apariencia de oro”. .... Nosotros, no obstante, nos preguntamos por qué el ángel le daría José instrucciones específicas de que no podía utilizar las placas para su beneficio personal, si no eran de oro . .... Así, utilizando las declaraciones de los testigos, parece lógico que las placas pesan alrededor de 50 libras, 10 libras más o 10 libras menos. Nos sumariamos a los a los argumentos rechazados de los críticos de que las placas deben haber pesado 200 libras.
 
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*MormonThink finally gets one right. Interesting, though, that they use this to appear as if they are "objective" and weighing the evidence--but they then go on to distort the evidence they present later.
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* Esto es realmente correcto . Interesante , sin embargo, que PiensaMormón utiliza esto para aparecer como si son " objetivas" y un peso de la evidencia - pero luego van a distorsionar la evidencia que presentan más adelante.
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*A ''solid block of gold'' of the dimensions described by Joseph Smith and the witnesses would weigh 200 pounds, but does not account for any air space between leaves. The plates were not a solid block of gold. Pure gold is too soft to create such plates. It makes you think—were the plates made of a [[Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Gold_plates#Of_what_material_were_the_plates.3F|lighter alloy]]?
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* A'' bloque macizo de oro '' de las dimensiones descritas por José Smith y los testigos pesaría 200 libras , pero no tener en cuenta cualquier espacio de aire entre las hojas. Las placas no son un bloque sólido de oro. El oro puro es demasiado blando para crear tales placas . Te hace pensar - fueron los platos hechos de un [ [ Book_of_Mormon / Anacronismos / Gold_plates # Of_what_material_were_the_plates.3F | más ligero de aleación ] ] ?
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*William Smith, who MormonThink was happy to [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The_Witnesses#|quote]] as saying he only saw the plates covered (and which MormonThink tried to insist meant that ''no one'' had claimed to have seen the uncovered plates) specifically said the plates were a mixture of copper and gold—which is much lighter than pure gold. Why don't they mention this statement of William's?
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* William Smith, que era MormonThink feliz de [ [ Criticism_of_Mormonism / Sitios Web / MormonThink / The_Witnesses # | quote] ] diciendo que él sólo vio las placas cubiertas (y que MormonThink trató de insistir significado que '' nadie '' había afirmado tener visto las placas descubiertas ) específicamente dijeron que los platos eran una mezcla de cobre y oro , que es mucho más ligero que el oro puro. ¿Por qué no mencionan esta declaración de William ?
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*As antiquarian artifacts, the plates would have been quite valuable even if not made of a precious metal—and, it didn't much matter whether the plates were pure gold, but whether Joseph or others who might be tempted to use them for gain ''thought'' they were.
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* Como artefactos anticuario , las placas habrían sido muy valioso, incluso si no se hace de un asunto de metales preciosos - y , no hizo mucho si las placas eran de oro puro, pero si Joseph u otras personas que tengan la tentación de usarlos para el beneficio '' '' pensó que eran.
 
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* The plates were "a mixture of gold and copper" - William Smith, ''The Saints' Herald'' (4 October 1884): 644.
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* Las placas fueron "una mezcla de oro y cobre" - William Smith, ''The Saints' Herald'' (4 October 1884): 644.
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|enlace=Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Description_of_the_plates
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|enlace=El Libro de Mormón/Traducción/Descripción de las planchas
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|sujeto=Description of the plates
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|sujeto=Descripción de las planchas
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|sumario=How did the many witnesses describe the plates and related items?
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|sumario=Una variedad de personas que manejan y / o vio las placas se dejaron descripciones. Tenemos una lista de estas descripciones en este sub-artículo.
 
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Revisión del 18:28 23 mar 2014

Tabla de Contenidos

Respuesta a PiensaMormón página "Corriendo con Planchas de Oro"


Tithing
Un Análisis FairMormon de: PiensaMormón
 Una obra de autor: Anónimo 		Joseph's Translation of the Bible

PERCEPCIÓN DEL FAIRMORMON DE LAS CONCLUSIONES DE LA CRÍTICA

  • El sitio web llega a la conclusión de que las placas probablemente no pesan 200 libras, y sin embargo a pesar de esto que era imposible para que José ha ejecutado durante 1-2 millas que llevan las 40-60 libras placas.
  • El sitio web llega a la conclusión de que José no podría haber combatido o eludido los tres hombres que intentaban tomar las placas de él.
  • El sitio web concluye la página web llega a la conclusión de que la historia de José de escapar a los que trató de tomar las placas es un "cuento chino" que no se debe enseñar en la Iglesia.

RESPUESTA DE FAIRMORMON Y DATOS DE APOYO


Reclamaciones PiensaMormón...
En este caso no estamos [PiensaMormón] de acuerdo con la premisa de los críticos. No nos sentimos que las placas tenían que ser de oro macizo. Aunque las placas se refieren a menudo como “planchas de oro, no necesariamente tenían que ser de oro puro. Los testigos los describieron como que tenían la “apariencia de oro”. .... Nosotros, no obstante, nos preguntamos por qué el ángel le daría José instrucciones específicas de que no podía utilizar las placas para su beneficio personal, si no eran de oro . .... Así, utilizando las declaraciones de los testigos, parece lógico que las placas pesan alrededor de 50 libras, 10 libras más o 10 libras menos. Nos sumariamos a los a los argumentos rechazados de los críticos de que las placas deben haber pesado 200 libras.


Comentario de FairMormon

  • Esto es realmente correcto . Interesante , sin embargo, que PiensaMormón utiliza esto para aparecer como si son " objetivas" y un peso de la evidencia - pero luego van a distorsionar la evidencia que presentan más adelante.
  • A bloque macizo de oro de las dimensiones descritas por José Smith y los testigos pesaría 200 libras , pero no tener en cuenta cualquier espacio de aire entre las hojas. Las placas no son un bloque sólido de oro. El oro puro es demasiado blando para crear tales placas . Te hace pensar - fueron los platos hechos de un [ [ Book_of_Mormon / Anacronismos / Gold_plates # Of_what_material_were_the_plates.3F



Información adicional

  • Descripción de las planchas—Una variedad de personas que manejan y / o vio las placas se dejaron descripciones. Tenemos una lista de estas descripciones en este sub-artículo. (Enlace)


Reclamaciones PiensaMormón...
How could any man, especially a man that had a slight limp run with a 50 pound weight and avoid capture by three assailants? The journey through the woods was about 3 miles as Joseph indicated above. It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men for some 1 to 2 miles that were bent on taking the plates from Joseph. And all this from a young man that had a slight limp and would have difficulty running at a high speed for a long distance -especially carrying a 50 lb. weight.


Comentario de FairMormon

  • Several people testified of the plates' weight, and they all knew Joseph Smith. None of them found the story inherently impossible. None of them challenged Joseph's tale—including his family who both knew him best and handled the plates.
  • Joseph's mother (who told this story) did not say that Joseph "outran" the three men—instead, he was attacked three separate times on his way home. In each case, a single man tried to ambush him alone, and Joseph struck them, knocked them down, and ran on.
  • MormonThink also doesn't tell us that Joseph's mother specifically said that one man who was probably involved in the attack had traveled sixty miles over the last day and night to get there--surely not someone who was well rested for a long footrace against young Joseph.
  • So, the key question would seem to be, "Was Joseph physically capable of incapacitating someone with a blow, or slowing them enough to evade?" His well-known skill at wrestling and stick-pulling would suggest that this he was.



Información adicional


Reclamaciones PiensaMormón...
And all this from a young man that had a slight limp and would have difficulty running at a high speed for a long distance -especially carrying a 50 lb. weight.


Comentario de FairMormon

  • Joseph was well-known for his strength and ability to do serious amounts of physical work, as well as wrestle and pull sticks.
  • Joseph managed fine during the Zion's Camp march of nearly a thousand miles on foot at 25-40 miles per day (Bushman, Rough Stone Rolling, 239). He'd had the limp since his boyhood operation, and was likely well-adjusted to it.
  • In a culture and time when all work is done by either human or animal muscle power, frontier farmers like the Smiths were likely in far better physical condition than most twenty-first century westerners.



Información adicional


Reclamaciones PiensaMormón...
If the story is but a 'tall tale', regardless of its origins, it should not be taught in church as a true historical account, as we have been taught growing up in the church, just to provide a faith-promoting event.


Comentario de FairMormon

  • We have no reason to think it a "tall tale" save MormonThink's "argument from incredulity"—they don't believe it can be done, so therefore it's a tall tale. But, people clearly can and do do what Joseph claimed he did, especially when the story which his mother actually told (three separate attacks by individual men) is considered.
  • MormonThink needs to do better than this before labeling a "tall tale" just because they want a faith-destroying non-story.




Notas


  1. [back]  Christopher Ailsby, SS: Hell on the Eastern Front: The Waffen-SS War in Russia, 1941-1945 (Osceloa, WI: MBI Publishing Co., 1998), p. 18
  2. [back]  Mark L. McConkie, Remembering Joseph: Personal Recollections of Those Who Knew the Prophet Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book Company, 2003), Henrie, William account citing Callie O. Morley, "History of William and Myra Mayall Henrie, Pioneers of 1847 and 1847," Delta, West Millard County, Utah, October 1955, LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah, 4-5..(print version) ISBN 978-1570089633 GL direct link
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