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m (RogerNicholson trasladó la página El Libro de Mormón/Traducción/Descripción de las planchas/Demasiado pesado para Joseph se ejecute con a El Libro de Mormón/Traducción/El peso de las planchas de oro) |
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|H=El peso de las planchas de oro | |H=El peso de las planchas de oro | ||
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− | |L2= | + | |L1=Pregunta: ¿Cuánto pesaron las planchas de oro? |
− | |L3=Lucy Mack Smith: " | + | |L2=Pregunta: ¿Qué dijo José Smith sobre los esfuerzos que se hicieron para robarle las planchas de oro? |
− | |L4= | + | |L3=Lucy Mack Smith: "Estaban de pie en el patio , cerca de la puerta, y se ideando planes para encontrar "Biblia de oro de Joe Smith, " a medida que se expresaron" |
+ | |L4=Pregunta: ¿Es inconcebible que alguien pueda correr con un juego de placas de metal de 50 libras, saltar sobre troncos y tal y ser capaz de adelantar a tres hombres? | ||
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− | {{: | + | {{:Pregunta: ¿Qué dijo José Smith sobre los esfuerzos que se hicieron para robarle las planchas de oro?}} |
− | {{: | + | {{:Fuente:Lucy Mack Smith:Biographical Sketches:Estaban de pie en el patio , cerca de la puerta, y se ideando planes para encontrar "Biblia de oro de Joe Smith, " a medida que se expresaron}} |
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Witnesses of the Book of Mormon were consistent in their witness that the plates weighed 40-60 pounds.
Some critics assume that the "golden plates" are pure gold, or that they are a solid block of gold. Neither conclusion is warranted.
59 At length the time arrived for obtaining the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them; that if I should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect of mine, I should be cut off; but that if I would use all my endeavors to preserve them, until he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected.
60 I soon found out the reason why I had received such strict charges to keep them safe, and why it was that the messenger had said that when I had done what was required at my hand, he would call for them. For no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. Every stratagem that could be invented was resorted to for that purpose. The persecution became more bitter and severe than before, and multitudes were on the alert continually to get them from me if possible. But by the wisdom of God, they remained safe in my hands, until I had accomplished by them what was required at my hand. When, according to arrangements, the messenger called for them, I delivered them up to him; and he has them in his charge until this day, being the second day of May, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight. (Joseph Smith History 1:59-60)
Lucy Mack Smith's account of the retrieval of the gold plates:
My husband soon learned that ten or twelve men were clubbed together, with one Willard Chase, a Methodist class leader, at their head; and what was still more ridiculous, they had sent sixty or seventy miles for a certain conjuror, to come and divine the place where the plates were secreted.
We supposed that Joseph had taken the plates, and hid them somewhere, and we were apprehensive that our enemies might discover their place of deposit. Accordingly, the next morning, after hearing of their plans, my husband concluded to go among the neighbours to see what he could learn with regard to the plans of the adverse party. The first house he came to, he found the conjuror and Willard Chase, together with the rest of the clan. Making an errand, he went in and sat down near the door, leaving it a little ajar, in order to overhear their conversation. They stood in the yard near the door, and were devising plans to find "Joe Smith's gold bible," as they expressed themselves. The conjuror seemed much animated, although he had travelled sixty miles the day and night previous.
Presently, the woman of the house, becoming uneasy at the exposures they were making, stepped through a back door into the yard, and called to her husband, in a suppressed tone, but loud enough to be heard distinctly by Mr. Smith, "Sam, Sam, you are cutting your own throat." At this the conjuror [p.103] bawled out at the top of his voice, "I am not afraid of any body—we will have them plates in spite of Joe Smith or all the devils in hell." When the woman came in again, Mr. Smith laid aside a newspaper which he had been holding in his hand, and remarked, "I believe I have not time to finish reading the paper now." He then left the house, and returned home. Mr. Smith, on returning home, asked Emma, if she knew whether Joseph had taken the plates from their place of deposit, or if she was able to tell him where they were. She said, she could not tell where they were, or whether they were removed from their place. My husband then related what he had both seen and heard....
[104] The plates were secreted about three miles from home, in the following manner. Finding an old birch log much decayed, excepting the bark, which was in a measure sound, he lock, his pocket knife and cut the bark with some care, then turned it back, and made a hole of sufficient size to receive the plates, and laying them in the cavity thus formed, he replaced the bark; after which he laid across the log, in several places, some old stuff that happened to lay near, in order to conceal, as much as possible, the place in which they were deposited.
Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home.
[105] After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Travelling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. lie was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running.
After resting a few moments, he desired me to send Carlos for my husband, Mr. Knight, and his friend Steal....[11]
One anti-Mormon website claims that even at 40-60 lbs, the story of Joseph running with the plates is impossible.[12]
The critics claim:
It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men for some 1 to 2 miles that were bent on taking the plates from Joseph.
First, Lucy does not say that Joseph "outran" the men—in each case, a man tried to ambush him alone, and Joseph struck them and ran on. So, the key question would seem to be, "Was Joseph physically capable of incapacitating someone with a blow?" His well-known skill at wrestling and stick-pulling would suggest that he was. He does not have to outrun three men trying to trap him simultaneously.
Second, Lucy also says that at least one of the men had traveled sixty miles the day and night before. This suggests that he, at least, would not have been at his peak by the time he accosted Joseph, and probably more ill-suited to a long chase than the prophet.
Third, this type of thing is not "inconceivable" at all:
While such feats are not easy, and are tiring (and Joseph had to rest a bit before even asking his mother to go get help), they are well within human ability, then and now.
The critics claim:
And all this from a young man that had a slight limp and would have difficulty running at a high speed for a long distance - especially carrying a 50 lb. weight.
What evidence is there that Joseph's "slight limp" made it hard for him to run at high speed? Joseph managed fine during the Zion's Camp march of nearly a thousand miles on foot at 25-40 miles per day.[14] He'd had the limp since his boyhood operation, and was likely well-adjusted to it.
It also didn't seem to stop Joseph from competing well in footraces and high jumping:
. . . All of the Henrie boys were of the rugged athletic type and all were fairly big fellows. Daniel being the smallest, but he was strong and wirey. They loved to wrestle, run and jump and often did it in the less tense moments when they had time. The prophet also loved and excelled in these sports and one day Daniel related he walked up to one of their high corral gates—it came up to his chin as he measured it—then he walked back a little way, took a running jump, and cleared the gate easily. Daniel related that he often beat the Prophet racing and also at the high jump, but when the prophet thought it was his turn to win and he really tried, he could out them all.[15]
This doesn't sound like a man whose limp is crippling him--and Joseph was younger and likely more fit during the Book of Mormon translating period, when he was focused almost entirely on farming, rather than splitting his attention as required for Church administration.
The critics claim:
If the story is but a 'tall tale', regardless of its origins, it should not be taught in church as a true, historical account, as we have been taught growing up in the church, just to provide another faith-promoting event.
We have no reason to think the story of Joseph running with the plates is a "tall tale" save MormonThink's "argument from incredulity"—they don't believe it can be done, so therefore it's a tall tale. But, people clearly can and do do what Joseph claimed he did, especially when the story which his mother actually told (three separate attacks by individual men) is considered.
|L1= }} Google translated; no human check yet.
Se afirma que:
Tanto el testimonio de testigos y el material del que se hicieron las placas indican que el peso de las placas fue de 40-60 libras, y no los 200 libras.
No hay nada en la historia de José que es inverosímil, sobre todo cuando los detalles de la historia y presentado correctamente, en vez de en la forma distorsionada favorecido por algunos críticos.
Las placas fueron ni un bloque sólido de metal, ni probablemente de oro macizo. William Smith, hermano de José, afirmó que las planchas eran de una "mezcla de oro y cobre."
Esto coincide bien con una aleación conocida por los antiguos americanos llamado "tumbaga", que tiene la apariencia de oro, pero es considerablemente más ligero. Planchas de tumbaga habrían igualado el peso de 40-60 libras que los testigos estimaron las planchas se pesaron.
José dijo muy poco sobre los esfuerzos para robar las placas en su historia oficial :
Su madre, sin embargo, recordó un relato más gráfico :
[ 104 ] Las placas se secretan unos tres kilómetros de su casa , de la siguiente manera . Encontrar un tronco viejo abedul mucho más decaído , con excepción de la corteza, que estaba en un sonido medida , se cerraba, su navaja y cortar la corteza con un poco de cuidado , luego se volvió de nuevo , e hizo un agujero de tamaño suficiente para recibir las placas , y por el que se en la cavidad así formada , que sustituyó a la corteza, después de lo cual él puso todo el registro , en varios lugares, algunas cosas viejas que le pasó a sentar cerca , con el fin de ocultar, lo más posible , el lugar en el que se fueron depositados .
[ 105 ] Después de proceder a una corta distancia, pensó que sería más seguro dejar la carretera y pasar por el bosque. Viajar a cierta distancia después de que él salió de la carretera , llegó a un gran golpe de suerte , y como él estaba saltando sobre un tronco , un hombre se levantó de detrás de ella, y le dio un fuerte golpe con un arma. Joseph se dio la vuelta y lo tiró al suelo , y luego corrió a la parte superior de su velocidad . Alrededor de la mitad de una milla más fue atacado de nuevo en la misma forma que antes, él golpeó a este hombre de la misma manera que el anterior , y echó a correr de nuevo , y antes de llegar a su casa fue asaltada por tercera vez. En notable el último que se dislocó el dedo pulgar , el cual , sin embargo , no se dio cuenta hasta que llegó a la vista de la casa, cuando se arrojó en la esquina de la valla con el fin de recuperar el aliento. Tan pronto como pudo , se levantó y se acercó a la casa. mentira era aún totalmente sin habla de miedo y la fatiga de la marcha.
PiensaMormón, un sitio web anti-mormona a cargo de un editor anónimo que oculta su identidad por lo que no será excomulgado, afirma que incluso a 40-60 libras, la historia de José que se ejecuta con las placas es imposible. Las declaraciones en negrita a continuación provienen de PiensaMormón. [17]
En primer lugar, Lucy no dice que José "corrió más aprisa que" los hombres-en cada caso, un hombre trató de emboscar a solas, y José les golpeó y siguió corriendo. Por lo tanto, la pregunta clave parece ser, "¿Fue Joseph físicamente capaz de incapacitar a una persona con un golpe?" Su habilidad bien conocida en la lucha libre y el palo-tirando sugeriría que esto es así. Él no tiene que dejar atrás a tres hombres que intentaban atraparlo simultáneamente.
En segundo lugar, Lucy también dice que al menos uno de los hombres habían viajado sesenta millas al día y de la noche antes. Esto sugiere que, al menos, no habría sido en su mejor momento cuando él abordó a José, y probablemente más mal adaptado a una larga persecución que el profeta.
En tercer lugar, este tipo de cosas no es "inconcebible" en absoluto:
Mientras que tales hazañas no son fáciles', y se están cansando (y José tuvieron que descansar un poco antes de siquiera preguntar a su madre para ir a buscar ayuda), que están bien dentro de la capacidad humana, entonces y ahora.
¿Qué evidencia hay de que "ligera cojera" de José hizo difícil para él para correr a gran velocidad? Joseph gestionado bien durante el campamento de marcha de casi mil kilómetros de la Sión a pie a 25-40 millas por día. [19] Había tenido la cojera desde su operación de la infancia, y fue probablemente bien adaptado a ella.
También parecía no dejar de Joseph de competir bien en carreras pedestres y salto de altura:
Esto no suena como un hombre cuya cojera le está paralizando - y José era más joven y probablemente más en forma durante el Libro de Mormón período traducción, cuando él se centró casi exclusivamente en la agricultura, en lugar de dividir su atención como se requiere para la administración de la Iglesia .
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