Diferenças entre edições de "Utilizador:InProgress/Mormonism and Wikipedia/Academic among amateurs"

(→‎Exhorter: mod)
(→‎Exhorter: mod)
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*He may have even spoken during some Methodist meetings—a childhood acquaintance of Smith's, Orsamus Turner (1801-1855), described him as a "very passable exhorter," which Dan Vogel has interpreted to mean some involvement with the Methodists "during the 1824-25 revival in Palmyra. Nevertheless, Vogel admits that Smith "could not have been a licensed exhorter since membership was a prerequisite."EMD, 3: 50, n. 15; Turner (1851) , p. 429
 
*He may have even spoken during some Methodist meetings—a childhood acquaintance of Smith's, Orsamus Turner (1801-1855), described him as a "very passable exhorter," which Dan Vogel has interpreted to mean some involvement with the Methodists "during the 1824-25 revival in Palmyra. Nevertheless, Vogel admits that Smith "could not have been a licensed exhorter since membership was a prerequisite."EMD, 3: 50, n. 15; Turner (1851) , p. 429
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*Turner says that "after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, an "exhorter" is either "One who exhorts or urges on to action" or "a person appointed to give religious exhortation under the direction of a superior minister." Exhorters were common in early Methodism. (For instance, see Abel Stevens, History of the Methodist Episcopal Church in the United States of America (New York: Phillips & Hunt, 1884), 2: 235.)
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*Turner says that "after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, an "exhorter" is either "One who exhorts or urges on to action" or "a person appointed to give religious exhortation under the direction of a superior minister." Exhorters were common in early Methodism. (For instance, see Abel Stevens, History of the Methodist Episcopal Church in the United States of America (New York: Phillips & Hunt, 1884), 2: 235.)  
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*Nevertheless, according to Craig N. Ray, the word "exhorter" refers to Smith's activities in a debating club, not in Methodist meetings. (No other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation.)Brown (no date) The full text of the Turner quote can be found at Olivercowdery.com It is a single very lengthy sentence, but in summary, it says: "...the mother's intellect occasionally shone out in him feebly, especially when he used to help us to solve some portentous questions of moral or political ethics, in our juvenile debating club... and, subsequently, after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp-meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings."
 
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*Smith was also said to have been influenced by the preaching of the Rev. George Lane, a Methodist presiding elder.Cowdery (1834) , p. 13; Smith (1883)  
 
 
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*At some point between 1821 and 1829, Smith served as “a very passable exhorter” at Methodist camp meetings “away down in the woods, on the Vienna Road.”[2]
 
*At some point between 1821 and 1829, Smith served as “a very passable exhorter” at Methodist camp meetings “away down in the woods, on the Vienna Road.”[2]
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*Note how many lines "Foxe" uses to describe the citation that Matzko effectively uses in a single line, although Matzko does make an assumption that Joseph was an "exhorter" at the Methodist meetings, rather than noting the debate club. "Foxe" doesn't like the fact that the citation clearly states that Joseph was an "exhorter" in evening meetings after he caught "a spark of Methodism" at the camp meetings. Turner mentions the debating club, but "Foxe" has to break the quote into parts and insert a lengthy dictionary definition of the word "exhorter" in order to make sure the reader understands the citation the way he wants them to. "Foxe" is trying very hard to obscure the fact that it was the primary source ''Turner'' that mentioned the debate club.
 
*Note how many lines "Foxe" uses to describe the citation that Matzko effectively uses in a single line, although Matzko does make an assumption that Joseph was an "exhorter" at the Methodist meetings, rather than noting the debate club. "Foxe" doesn't like the fact that the citation clearly states that Joseph was an "exhorter" in evening meetings after he caught "a spark of Methodism" at the camp meetings. Turner mentions the debating club, but "Foxe" has to break the quote into parts and insert a lengthy dictionary definition of the word "exhorter" in order to make sure the reader understands the citation the way he wants them to. "Foxe" is trying very hard to obscure the fact that it was the primary source ''Turner'' that mentioned the debate club.
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*"Foxe" even inserts the editorial comment that "no other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation," thus casting doubt on Ray's credentials. Such an unprofessional comment would never have appeared in Matzko's paper, which had to pass a peer review.
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=====Peer review=====
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*Nevertheless, according to Craig N. Ray, the word "exhorter" refers to Smith's activities in a debating club, not in Methodist meetings. (No other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation.)Brown (no date) The full text of the Turner quote can be found at Olivercowdery.com It is a single very lengthy sentence, but in summary, it says: "...the mother's intellect occasionally shone out in him feebly, especially when he used to help us to solve some portentous questions of moral or political ethics, in our juvenile debating club... and, subsequently, after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp-meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings."
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*"Foxe" now inserts the editorial comment that "no other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation," thus casting doubt on Ray's credentials. Such an unprofessional comment would never have appeared in Matzko's paper, which had to pass a peer review.
 
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Revisão das 22h52min de 11 de maio de 2009


Editors of LDS related Wikipedia articles
A FAIR Analysis of Wikipedia: A study in contrasts: An academic among amateurs
 A work by a collaboration of authors (Link to Wikipedia article here)
 An analysis of article "First Vision"
Note:
  • This page serves as either an index for or a review of claims and/or responses to attacks on LDS Church made by this online work. The work reviewed is the product of an online collaboration of various authors of varying degrees of faith or skepticism. FAIR has noted particularly bad scholarship related to the research contained in this particular work and/or considers significant elements of this work to be "anti-Mormon" in tone or content.
  • The name Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.. Wikipedia content is copied and made available under the GNU Free Documentation License.

A study in contrasts: An academic among amateurs

In a recent (and excellent) article in the Journal of American History (June 2006), “Can History Be Open Source? Wikipedia and the Future of the Past,” the author, Roy Rosenzweig, notes how “academics and other highly-qualified people” who were initially excited by the project were “slowly worn down and driven away by having to deal with difficult people.” (140) I refuse to be worn down and driven away.
"John Foxe" 7 July 2006 (UTC) off-site

∗       ∗       ∗

The shield of anonymity

I often have sympathy for the practitioners of false religions,
but unlike you, I have no "deep respect" for the religions themselves.
That's because they're false. They're lies. "What communion hath light with darkness?"’’
"John Foxe," responding to an LDS editor at "Three Witnesses" Wikipedia Talk Page (28 January 2009)

∗       ∗       ∗

Anonymity provides a passionate Wikipedia editor with certain advantages. A "pseudo persona" such as that created by the Bob Jones University professor who calls himself "John Foxe" [1] has no need to protect his academic reputation. "Foxe" has no stated academic credentials—hence, there is no reputation to maintain. This allows the pseudo persona to safely reflect the true inner thoughts of the corresponding "real world" editor without the danger of having any of these things reflect upon his or her "real world" reputation and credentials. Since "Foxe" has researched Mormonism at BYU, and has interacted with a number of Latter-day Saints, we are confident that the real-world alter ego of "John Foxe" discusses Mormonism with Latter-day Saints in a more respectful and restrained manner than that of his more uninhibited on-line persona.

For example, it is difficult to imagine the real-world professor boldly declaring to Latter-day Saints he meets for the first time that "Joseph not only lied, he committed serial adultery," [2] or claiming "I often have sympathy for the practitioners of false religions, but unlike you, I have no 'deep respect' for the religions themselves. That's because they're false. They're lies. 'What communion hath light with darkness?'" [3] In fact, 2 Corinthians 6:14 does quite accurately describe the online attitude of "John Foxe:"

Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness?

"Foxe's" online boldness and sarcasm are not limited to Latter-day Saints. One cannot imagine the real-world counterpart of "John Foxe" telling someone: "Frankly, I don't care whether you're a reprobate, a pedestrian, or a Martian." [4] Yet, the online persona finds this type of interaction perfectly acceptable. The real-world professor, on the other hand, would find it embarrassing to have such comments attributed to him.

"Real world" academics versus wiki academics

At last, the truth comes out. Now your condescending attitude towards all of us amateurs makes more sense.
It has long been obvious that you are a better wordsmith than I, that doesn't make your words any more or less true.
Joseph Smith, Jr. was barely literate when he first saw God the Father and Jesus Christ, I am glad to stand with them.
—Wikipedia editor "74s181" (5 November 2007) off-site

∗       ∗       ∗

Consider a well written article such as Dr. John Matzko’s “The Encounter of the Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism” which is both stylistically and substantively superior when compared to what passes for scholarship in a typical LDS Wikipedia article. It is enlightening to contrast Dr. Matzko’s approach with the approach of wiki editor "John Foxe.” Both editors are highly educated and apparently involved with teaching history at BJU. [5] While Dr. Matzko’s article goes through peer review in order to produce a final draft, [6] Wikipedia articles such as “First Vision” and “Joseph Smith, Jr.” essentially suffer through an endless and continuous “peer review.” The frustration for the “Wikipedia academic” is that many of the “peers” performing the review are not scholars. Even more frustrating for “Foxe,” many of the “peers” attempting to review an article are either passionate LDS believers or passionate critics, who wish to insert any number of potentially unsubstantiated claims. Thus, while Dr. Matzko is able to produce an intelligent and coherent article (admittedly from a non-believer’s perspective), “Foxe” is unable to keep dedicated non-scholarly believers and critics from attempting to “spin” an article in a direction that he does not wish it to go. The articles that he cares about, therefore, must be continuously maintained. In essence, "Foxe" has his finger on the "dead man's switch" of these articles. After several years of editing, he by now realizes that his choices are to either watch what he has so carefully put together be taken apart by amateurs, or spend the next 20 years of his life maintaining Wikipedia articles. The only other alternative is to bring in another like-minded editor to take over some of the workload. The frustration of an academic among amateurs becomes evident.

Thus speaketh the history professor...

I've replaced older material in this section with new, narrative content that is more concise, more readable, well-referenced, and is better focused on Joseph Smith, Jr.
I expect editing to be adequately explained.
"John Foxe," "Joseph Smith, Jr." Wikipedia Talk Page (15 September 2008)

...and the writer...

I won't argue that what I've written is of higher quality than what you are trying to preserve—though it is...
"John Foxe," "Joseph Smith, Jr." Wikipedia Talk Page (21 September 2008)

Frustrated editors fall by the wayside...

The day will come when John Foxe... like the rest of us... will tire of this current fight and move on with his life. I'm taking the long term view of this particular article, and doing a wait and see on how this is eventually going to turn out.
--"Robert Horning" 20:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC) off-site

The only reason the article became "basically stable" is that I finally quit--I just gave up fighting with him. I consider him a bully. He is tenacious and very focused.
--"Rocketj4" 13:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC) off-site

Freedom of biased expression

The fact that this article has been stable for months
suggests that other Mormons have found the evidence unassailable.
"John Foxe," responding to an LDS editor at "Three Witnesses" Wikipedia Talk Page (27 January 2009)

∗       ∗       ∗

Anonymity allows editors to freely express their bias in ways that would never be included in a “real world” academic article. We contrast Dr. Matzko's professionalism with the lack of such in "John Foxe.”

Dr. Matzko notes in his article:

“Especially valuable were the comments of Richard Bushman, seminar co-director, and Mark Sidwell, the author’s colleague at BJU.”

In contrast, “Wikipedia academic” "John Foxe," notes on the "Joseph Smith, Jr." Talk page:

“...the statements of Joseph and Emma are not credible. No historian of any persuasion takes them seriously. That's because both Joseph and Emma lied.”

Dr. Bushman is one of the foremost “believing” historians to have documented the life of Joseph Smith, Jr. Surely Dr. Bushman considers the statements of Joseph Smith to be credible. "John Foxe" has actually met the man and respects him, claiming that he is a "super nice guy." Yet, Dr. Matzko acknowledges that Dr. Bushman is a historian worthy of reviewing his work, since he praises Dr. Bushman’s input and review of his article draft. The anonymous academic "John Foxe,” in contrast, states that “no historian of any persuasion takes [Joseph’s statements] seriously,” thus implicitly condemning Dr. Bushman’s credentials as a historian. “Foxe” would not be able to get away with such a statement without the protection of anonymity. His “real world” credentials remain intact, while his “Wikipedia” credentials are essentially disposable.

Tag team editing

After a couple years of editing, reinforcement arrives in the form of another BJU affiliated editor who slavishly supports and compliments "Foxe's" perspective. Normally, an editor so recently arrived on an LDS article would not be worthy of comment without observing their behavior for a period of time. However, this editor is notable, since external evidence shows a high likelihood that this new editor, "Hi540," is in reality "John Foxe" himself:

Foxe has gotten it more or less right once again—clear, to the point, and forthright.
I'm sure his edits can be improved, but further edits need to be explained paragraph by paragraph.
"Hi540," "Joseph Smith, Jr." Wikipedia Talk Page (20 September 2008)

The statements above are a good demonstration of intimidation—any less educated or newer editors are likely to simply leave the article as is rather than fight the battle to modify it. Any editor approaching this article is led to believe that they have to explain and justify every edit they make to "John Foxe" or "Hi540." This is referred to as "ownership," and it is contrary to Wikipedia policy. (See: Wikipedia:Ownership of articles) "Foxe" is often accused of "ownership" of Wikipedia articles.

I think on every LDS page to which I've contributed a Mormon has accused me of "ownership." My answer is always the same: No non-Mormon can "own" a Mormon page. The LDS community can overwhelm any individual non-believer. "John Foxe," "Three Witnesses" Wikipedia Talk Page (19 February 2007)

Normally, one assumes "in good faith" that multiple Wikipedia editors are not collaborating in the real world (this practice is referred to by Wikipedians as “meatpuppetry”…something that many LDS editors occasionally get accused of as a result of their similar approach to articles) Even worse is to find that someone is operating duplicate editing accounts ("sockpuppetry").

Comparison

- Wiki academic Real world academic Comments
Property
  • Bushman, 69-70. The Methodists did not acquire property on the Vienna Road until July 1821, so it is likely that Smith's first dabble with Methodism occurred during the 1824-25 revival in Palmyra.
  • Since the Methodists did not acquire property on the Vienna Road until July 1821, the camp meetings were almost certainly held after that date. Wesley Walters, "A Reply to Dr. Bushman," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 4, no. 1 (Spring 1969): 99. (Matzko, p. 78 note 2).
  • "Foxe" cites Bushman, then adds a fact, followed by a speculation. Neither the fact nor the speculation are supported by the Bushman citation. No citation is even provided.
  • In contrast, Matzko notes the same information and cites it to Walters' response to Bushman.
Exhorter
  • He may have even spoken during some Methodist meetings—a childhood acquaintance of Smith's, Orsamus Turner (1801-1855), described him as a "very passable exhorter," which Dan Vogel has interpreted to mean some involvement with the Methodists "during the 1824-25 revival in Palmyra. Nevertheless, Vogel admits that Smith "could not have been a licensed exhorter since membership was a prerequisite."EMD, 3: 50, n. 15; Turner (1851) , p. 429
  • Turner says that "after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, an "exhorter" is either "One who exhorts or urges on to action" or "a person appointed to give religious exhortation under the direction of a superior minister." Exhorters were common in early Methodism. (For instance, see Abel Stevens, History of the Methodist Episcopal Church in the United States of America (New York: Phillips & Hunt, 1884), 2: 235.)
  • At some point between 1821 and 1829, Smith served as “a very passable exhorter” at Methodist camp meetings “away down in the woods, on the Vienna Road.”[2]
  • [2] Orsamus Turner, History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, and Morris' Reserve (Rochester, N.Y.: William Alling, 1851), 214, in Early Mormon Documents, 3:50.
  • Note how many lines "Foxe" uses to describe the citation that Matzko effectively uses in a single line, although Matzko does make an assumption that Joseph was an "exhorter" at the Methodist meetings, rather than noting the debate club. "Foxe" doesn't like the fact that the citation clearly states that Joseph was an "exhorter" in evening meetings after he caught "a spark of Methodism" at the camp meetings. Turner mentions the debating club, but "Foxe" has to break the quote into parts and insert a lengthy dictionary definition of the word "exhorter" in order to make sure the reader understands the citation the way he wants them to. "Foxe" is trying very hard to obscure the fact that it was the primary source Turner that mentioned the debate club.
Peer review
  • Nevertheless, according to Craig N. Ray, the word "exhorter" refers to Smith's activities in a debating club, not in Methodist meetings. (No other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation.)Brown (no date) The full text of the Turner quote can be found at Olivercowdery.com It is a single very lengthy sentence, but in summary, it says: "...the mother's intellect occasionally shone out in him feebly, especially when he used to help us to solve some portentous questions of moral or political ethics, in our juvenile debating club... and, subsequently, after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp-meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings."
  • "Foxe" now inserts the editorial comment that "no other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation," thus casting doubt on Ray's credentials. Such an unprofessional comment would never have appeared in Matzko's paper, which had to pass a peer review.

Conclusion

Only in Wikipedia can you observe LDS believers, non-believers and critics attempting to work together to produce a coherent encyclopedia article. Sometimes "working together" is in reality an edit war between believers and critics, with the "winner" being the person who can outlast the others without blatantly violating Wikipedia editing guidelines.

Endnotes

  1. [note] The pseudonym "John Foxe" is not the editor's real name—it is taken from the author of "Foxe's Book of Martyrs."
  2. [note]  off-site
  3. [note]  off-site
  4. [note]  off-site
  5. [note]  Dr. Matzko is a history teacher and department head at Bob Jones University. "John Foxe" states: "Once or twice a year I have occasion to mention the thalidomide case in the course of my work." link Since "Foxe" is affiliated with BJU, and the "course of [his] work" requires him to address the same subject once or twice each year, we assume that there is a high likelihood that "Foxe" is a history professor at the same school.
  6. [note] Dr. Matzko's article thanks “participants in the 2005 NEH Seminar on ‘Joseph Smith and the Origins of Mormonism’ for criticism of an earlier draft. Especially valuable were the comments of Richard Bushman, seminar co-director, and Mark Sidwell, the author’s colleague at BJU."
  7. [note] Editors "John Foxe" and "Hi540" are affiliated with Bob Jones University. "Hi540" actually does have an interesting BJU association: He uploaded a photograph to Wikimedia commons LakeSanteetlah(lake).jpg whose copyright is owned by none other than BJU history professor John Matzko.
Obtida de "https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/respostas/index.php?title=Utilizador:InProgress/Mormonism_and_Wikipedia/Academic_among_amateurs&oldid=41847"