Difference between revisions of "Source:John Whitmer handled the plates - "Theodore Turley's Memorandums""
 
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Critics rely on one report from then-apostate John Whitmer and attempt to use this as the 'smoking gun' for a "visionary only" experience, but this misrepresents the totality of the evidence.
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|title=Turley claimed that John Whitmer said: "I now say I handled those plates. there was fine engravings on both sides. I handled them...and they were shown to me by a supernatural power."
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|category=Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Eight witnesses
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==Turley claimed that John Whitmer said: "I now say I handled those plates. there was fine engravings on both sides. I handled them...and they were shown to me by a supernatural power."==
  
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:...all I know, you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith." Whitmer replied "I now say I handled those plates. there was fine engravings on both sides. I handled them." and he described how they were hung and they were ''shown to me by a supernatural power''. he acknowledged all. Turley asked him why the translation is not now true, & he said "I cannot read it, and I do not know whether it is true or not.<ref>"Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in {{EarlyMormonDocs1|vol=5|start=241}}; see also with minor editing in {{HoC|vol=3|start=307|end=308}}</ref>
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Theodore Turley claimed that John Whitmer said:
  
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So, the apostate Whitmer insists that he physically handled the plates, and attests to having seen fine engraving "on both sides."  The critics grasp at straws, and ignore the very clear implication that Whitmer (here a bitter enemy of Joseph Smith) claims to have actually seen and handled the plates. The "supernatural power" citation seems to be the imposition of the interviewers' bias (it appears in none of Whitmer's first person accounts or in the Testimony of the Eight Witnesses&mdash;see further discussion in main article above).
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[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: ‘I now say, <font color="blue">I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides</font>. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings], and [said] ‘<font color="red">they were shown to me by a supernatural power</font>;’ he acknowledged all.<ref>"Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in {{EarlyMormonDocs1|vol=5|start=241}}; see also with minor editing in {{HoC|vol=3|start=307|end=308}}</ref>
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</blockquote>
  
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It is also possible that Whitmer was insisting that Joseph Smith could not have showed him the plates without divine aid; this perspective is not present in any of his other statements, however.  The Three witnesses likewise insisted on the [[Book_of_Mormon_witnesses:Spiritual_or_literal|physical reality]] of their experience with the angel, despite the supernatural trappings of their witness experience.
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So, the apostate Whitmer insists that he physically handled the plates, and attests to having seen fine engraving "on both sides." Even when apostate, he would not deny what he had seen, but had to claim that he couldn't know if the ''translation'' was accurate, since he had no witness of that.
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{{endnotes sources}}
  
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Why, then, did Whiter apostatize?  He rationalized his choice to disbelieve the ''translation'' of the Book of Mormon (despite knowing that the plates were literal and physical) thusly:
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[[Category:John Whitmer]]
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:I cannot read it, and I do not know whether it is true or not.<ref>"Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in {{EarlyMormonDocs1|vol=5|start=241}}; see also with minor editing in {{HoC|vol=3|start=307|end=308}}</ref>
 
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Latest revision as of 22:02, 21 October 2014

Turley claimed that John Whitmer said: "I now say I handled those plates. there was fine engravings on both sides. I handled them...and they were shown to me by a supernatural power."

Parent page: Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Eight witnesses

Turley claimed that John Whitmer said: "I now say I handled those plates. there was fine engravings on both sides. I handled them...and they were shown to me by a supernatural power."

Theodore Turley claimed that John Whitmer said:

[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: ‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings], and [said] ‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’ he acknowledged all.[1]

So, the apostate Whitmer insists that he physically handled the plates, and attests to having seen fine engraving "on both sides." Even when apostate, he would not deny what he had seen, but had to claim that he couldn't know if the translation was accurate, since he had no witness of that.

Notes

  1. ↑ "Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:241.; see also with minor editing in Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:307–308. Volume 3 link
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