Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claim that LDS members are not Christian because they do not believe in salvation through the grace of Christ. They claim that LDS believe in a “works based” salvation.
It is important to first come to a commonly understood meaning of the term salvation. Among members of the LDS Church this term is often used interchangeably with the term exaltation, but the two concepts are very different. If you ask, as I have done, a member of the LDS church – perhaps in the hall between Sacrament Meeting and Sunday School – what is required for salvation, you will get an answer that involves baptism, obedience, temple ordinances, etc. If you then say, well, wait just a minute – and then ask what it takes to be resurrected and live in a kingdom of glory in the hereafter, you will get a sudden look on their face, sort of an “aha” moment and they will answer, correctly – nothing. You do not have to do anything to gain salvation that includes resurrection and living in a kingdom of glory hereafter. You need only to be born on this earth.
Exaltation involves a great deal more and can effectively be dealt with in another paper. It does involve baptism, obedience, and temple ordinances. It also involves blessings well beyond salvation.
Salvation, according to LDS doctrine, is the overcoming of the transgression of Adam and results in being resurrected and living forever in heaven, in a kingdom of glory. It is given to all men and women, regardless of their status in life, their sinful state, or their belief, or lack of belief, in Christ. All men will bow the knee and confess that Jesus is the Christ at some point, but that is another issue.
What is salvation to an evangelical Christian? I am always concerned about telling others what they believe, but I think I can spell out some general understandings of what salvation means to the Christians I have known and/or exchanged emails with. If I understand it correctly, and perhaps one of you who are evangelical might want to correct me, salvation results in the saved individual being resurrected and living with Jesus in heaven. What happens there is not clear, but it is also not important to our current discussion.
So I think I am correct in saying that both traditional Christians and LDS Christians believe that salvation involves resurrection and living in heaven with God. There are variations in how this understanding is applied, but the general statement is, I think, true as far as it goes.
What is needed to gain salvation from a traditional Christian’s point of view? Is it correct to say that one must accept Jesus as one’s personal Savior and that salvation results from that action? Nothing must be done but accept Jesus, for the gift of grace provides all that is needed for one to be saved.
If that is the case, and I have every reason for it to be true as far as it goes, then we have a bit of a problem with this idea of salvation by grace in the traditional Christian view. Practice does not follow the statement of belief.
I have been told, I do not know how many times, that the profession of faith by an LDS person is not acceptable – because I worship a “different” Jesus. This adds to the basic requirement for a profession of faith the absolute necessity to be correct in your understanding of the Savior and his mission. If you err, even a little bit, then your profession, no matter how sincere, does not count.
How is one to obtain this correct understanding? One is not allowed to pray for revelation from God on the matter, as God no longer speaks to man through personal revelation. One, then, must ask a learned minister to explain it all to you if you are desirous of salvation. Now, there may be great variances between what one minister might say and another would profess to be true. How can one choose? You are not allowed to ask God and then trust the feelings that come in answer as they are just too hard to understand. So, one must choose the right minister who will teach you the correct doctrine. Does that sound like a matter of luck or perhaps just require prolonged personal effort to study and choose the right one?
So what are the steps to salvation from an evangelical, traditional Christian, point of view? First, one must find the right teacher. Second, one must accept the teachings and profess a belief and acceptance of those teachings. Third, one must have a salvation experience where one accepts Christ as your personal Savior. Then you are saved and will go to heaven. Is that stated fairly accurately? If not I would appreciate a correction.
If this is correct then the determining factor in the salvation process, the element that must be complied with in order for salvation to be effective, according to this traditional view, is not the grace of Christ, but the actions (read WORKS) of the penitent sinner. If the actions of the person do not happen then salvation does not take place and the grace of Christ is without effect. Is this true? I hope I have not stated anything incorrectly.
Evangelicals believe in Salvation by works. There is no escaping the conclusion.
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in the universal salvation of all men through the absolutely FREE gift of Grace from God, through the atonement of his son, Jesus Christ. There is no escaping the conclusion.
Why then are LDS the ones that are accused of not accepting the free gift of the grace of God through his Son, Jesus Christ? LDS are accused of being a “works based” religion in order to gain salvation. It does not make much sense to make such an accusation, does it?
I invite your comments.
George Cobabe
‘Tis true! The LDS view of heaven is about as universal as you can get. The few who will not eventually be saved are “sons of persition” and have somehow committed the “unforgivable sin” of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. All others will be redeemed and inherit a place in the Kingdom of God.
Concerns about hell to most LDS is to try to minimize the amount of time spent there while awaiting resurrection, i.e. the spirit prison and not the final state.
Thanks for the great article George!
-Ed
Nice writeup. And an interesting twist. I might add that to evangelicals there is either a heaven or hell with nothing inbetween (let me know if I am wrong). So when they speak of salvation it is likely their equivalent to exaltation – or all you can get.
I do think the LDS view is much more just, flexible, practical, meaningful, etc.
I have also often felt that if the LDS person and the evangelical person would really listen to each other, they would find that they are not as far apart as they often think.
I’ve said a few times that grace gets you in the door of Heaven, works determines the room.
That’s my understanding at least.
Your post sounds similar to a Zone Conference talk from a 20-yr. old Zone Leader. You’re not only awfully confident in summing up others’ belief systems (and oversimplifying them), but don’t allow for a very flexible Mormon belief system, which strikes me as odd since there are a number of faithful Mormons who would disagree with points of your foregone inescapable “conclusions.”
If this is the sort of “scholarship” that FAIR blog intends to bring to the bloggernacle, I for one, am disheartened. Mormon Mommy Wars is more insightful (and less polemic) than this.
Patrick,
What do you see as particularly polemic in the post? What, specifically, do you see as evidence of inflexibility?
-Allen
I actually think George has written an exemplary post on how to compare religions. I base that on the numerous times George invites correction. The only alternative would be for George to wait until he has an omniscient understanding of evangelical thought before posting, but I think that evangelicals will welcome the dialog and help George while he is manifestly still in the formative stage of the knowledge gathering process.
Interesting angle. While reading your post I actually came to a different conclusion: The Evangelical and Mormon view of salvation is technically the same: All we must do to achieve salvation is accept Christ as our savior. The difference is that Mormons believe we will be able to accept Christ after this life as well, and indeed almost all will except for those who are determined to rebel. By the way, I’ve been taught that all will accept Christ, and must to gain any glory. This seams to contradict what you’re saying so perhaps I am wrong and can be corrected, or perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you are saying.
To play Evangelical’s advocate, however, aren’t we being a little disingenuous to ignore the doctrine of exaltation? I understand your argument for excluding it (because technically, our view of exaltation goes well beyond their view of salvation). But I think most Evangelicals would object and say that we should compare their view of salvation to our view of exaltation, since they are equivalent in that they represent the highest level of glory we can aspire to.
Mike, thank you for your comments. Check paragraph #4 and you will see a reference to the idea that LDS accept the notion that every knee will bend and tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.
Of course this only adds to the idea of universal salvation given by the grace of God to all mankind, for all will qualify even by this minimal standard.
As far as ignoring the differences between salvation and exaltation – well that is the very problem we are faced with and that I am trying to address. It really does not make sense to allow our critics to define the question. We, as LDS, believe in salvation by grace and exaltation by a combination of the grace that allows us and the obedience that enables it.
They are very different concepts and to join them together results in the current state of affairs and a great deal of misunderstanding.
Thanks for commenting, George
Well said. I will also be addressing that very topic in my next posting…..I only hope to do as well.
BTW……….I love this blog!
I’m not an evangelical, but I can assure you that your post here lacks a much needed analysis of differing views within what you broadly term “evangelical, traditional Christianity” (a description problematic itself). It also lacks an understanding of how LDS doctrine has changed and evolved throughout the history of the Church.
Let Scripture speak for itself:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Eph 2: 8,9
“Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” Titus 1:9
“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.” Romans 3:25-27
“But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10 8-17
I hope that you forsake this foolishness and turn to the living and the true God. Jeremiah 10:10
Chris quoth: “Let Scripture speak for itself:”
Mormons believe all of these scriptures, and have no disagreement with any of them.
Unless, of course, you think your interpretation of scripture must be granted the same deference as the scripture itself? 🙂
Greg
you’re all crazy 😉
grace = free = gift = work out your own salvation (Paul) = works = effort = even the Evangelical concept of accepting Jesus requires the effort of acceptance no?
Arminianism = acceptance of election
Calvinism = non-resistance to election
Mormonism = campaigning for election 🙂
George,
Here are a few thoughts that you might want to consider:
1. In the context of a discussion focused on grace and works, the amount of attention given to definitions of the meaning of salvation might serve more to muddy the waters than to clarify them. Given that without God’s grace, neither “salvation” nor “exaltation” are possible, it seems this might be a better starting/focal point for such a discussion.
2. As I understand it, the differences between Mormon and Creedal thought on this subject has hinged on a core difference of opinion on the meaning/definition of the word “faith”. Since Mormons and Creedals agree that faith in Christ is a requirement, and agreement tends to break down therafter, it may be that’s where the problem lies. As stated in your post, the Creedal belief is that faith consists of a declaration or acknowledgment of Christ’s existence, the recognition that His grace is needed for salvation, and a request for that grace. The Mormon view is that such a declaration, while absolutely necessary, is merely the beginning of faith, and that Christ has asked for more. Faith is thus measurable, (e.g., “mustard seed”) in action, (e.g., moving mountains). This belief stands in sharp contrast to the Jews of Paul’s day who believed that salvation was earned by observance of the rituals or “works” required by Mosaic law. This is the mistaken accusation which Creedals make against the Mormon belief.
I apologize to those of you who have responded to my blog comments. I have been out of the country for the last three months and have not had time to respond. However I am back, at least for a short time.
Doug – how nice to hear from you. Doug is my cousin and I have a great deal of respect for his thoughts and abilities. But then I guess that just comes with the common DNA we share.
While it is important to understand, as you have suggested, that grace is essential for both salvation and exaltation, it is still important to recognize the difference between the two. While the grace of God is THE determinant in salvation (as I have described that term to mean resurrection and living in a kingdom of glory thereby overcoming the transgression of Adam and the subsequent fall of man) of every individual that has lived upon the earth, the determinant for exaltation is different. THE determinant, that is the action or state that determines the outcome, is the combination of grace, as a necessary part of the whole, and the actions of the individual. Since grace, by definition, is freely given, then the real determinant for exaltation is the worthiness of the individual so as to acess the fuller grace that becomes available. This is a part of salvation/exaltation that other faiths do not even ask questions about as they have no concept that provides an opportunity to develop this sort of understanding.
When, Doug, in your second point you say that faith is “absolutely necessary” for salvation I think you make a mistake. According to LDS doctrine NOTHING is needed or essential for the basic salvation except the grace of God which is freely given to all mankind. No acknowledgement is required that there even is a Christ let alone the necessity to accept the Savior. This is why I maintain that the LDS doctrine is the only one that truly expresses a true understanding and belief in salvation by grace. Now, I acknowledge that every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ – but that is a deferred acknowledgement from that individual and is not a prerequisite for salvation.
The idea that you suggest that faith is just the beginning is, I think, correct. And it is one of those big differences between “them” and “us”. We do believe in eternal progression and that change that will take place in our faith, as well as all other essential parts of our being, as our faith is developed.
Thanks for your comments.
Chris-With Ephesians 2:8,9 some of those works we have to do upon pain of damnation if we don’t do them. Not being baptized out of unbelief can lead to a sinner being held guilty for not obeying that commandment. (Jame’s 2:10) I read Titus 1:9 the same way.
With Romans 3 boasting would not be excluded if we did everything 100%.
I do not think the Lord has to accept an unbeliever’s confession of Jesus as Lord if they are disobeying him. If the unbeliever was truly saved they would demonstrate by their works they were saved. I do not care whether a person is saved before or after doing that good work as long as they were saved from hell. (Roman’s 10)
I know the proof texts for the grace alone doctrine. I am just not sure they mean obedience has no effect on salvation at all. God couldn’t hold any unbeliever guilty of anything at all if that were the case.(James 2:10) The unbeliever won’t be held guilty merely for not confessing Jesus, but for good works they were commanded to but didn’t.
I do not see good work’s as act’s of human effort, but yielding to God allowing him to work in us by his grace. (1 Cor. 15:10) Man is not saved by man’s effort. If God want’s a person to do a good work and they don’t do he decide’s if the eternal destiny of their soul will be effected.
I don’t think the gospel of Jesus foolish, nor would Jeremiah.