![FairMormon Logo](https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021_fair_logo_primary.png)
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jump to details:
It is claimed that:
Critics' attempts to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,') as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins.
Both witness testimony and the material of which the plates were made indicates that the weight of the plates was 40-60 lbs, and not 200 lbs.
At least one critic has been desperate enough to suggest that tin plates were fabricated, although there is no evidence of this.
It is important to note at the outset that Dan Vogel (a prominent advocate of this attempt to redefine the witnesses' testimonies) describes his approach as beginning
"with the assumption that the Book of Mormon is not real history. Thus to the extent that one believes the evidence points to a non-historical Book of Mormon, it also points to something other than real gold plates under the cloth. The two are inseparably connected."[1]
Thus, Vogel must come up with a counter-explanation for the Book of Mormon. Having decided that the Book of Mormon cannot be true history, Vogel must ignore evidence which disproves his thesis, and manufacture evidence through speculation, rather than considering all the evidence and then drawing conclusions therefrom about both the reality of the Book of Mormon's history and the existence of the plates. As he notes, the two are connected. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,') as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins.
Vogel does not seem to realize it, but the difficulty which he has in coming up with plausible explanations for the physical plates and the testimonies of the eight witnesses is evidence for the reality of the Book of Mormon. But, that conclusion is unacceptable to him, so he must downplay the evidence for the physical plates.
Vogel and others attempt to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state, and then were allowed to heft a covered box. This flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. Lucy Mack Smith wrote:
In a few days we were follow by Joseph and Oliver and the Whitmers who came to make us a visit and also to make some arrangements about getting the book printed soon after they came They all that is the male part of the company repaired to a little grove where it was customary for the family to offer up their secret prayers. as Joseph had been instructed that the plates would be carried there by one of the ancient Nephites. Here it was that those 8 witnesses recorded in the Book of Mormon looked upon the plates and handled them of which they bear witness in the [title page of the Book of Mormon]. . . . After the witnesses returned to the house the Angel again made his appearance to Joseph and received the plates from his hands. We commenced holding meetings that night in the which we declared those facts that we knew to be true.[2]
See also: | Literal experience |
Eight witnesses | |
Other witnesses |
Main article: | Description of the plates |
Witnesses of the Book of Mormon were consistent in their witness that the plates weighed 40-60 pounds.
Some critics assume that the "golden plates" are pure gold, or that they are a solid block of gold. Neither conclusion is warranted.
59 At length the time arrived for obtaining the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them; that if I should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect of mine, I should be cut off; but that if I would use all my endeavors to preserve them, until he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected.
60 I soon found out the reason why I had received such strict charges to keep them safe, and why it was that the messenger had said that when I had done what was required at my hand, he would call for them. For no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. Every stratagem that could be invented was resorted to for that purpose. The persecution became more bitter and severe than before, and multitudes were on the alert continually to get them from me if possible. But by the wisdom of God, they remained safe in my hands, until I had accomplished by them what was required at my hand. When, according to arrangements, the messenger called for them, I delivered them up to him; and he has them in his charge until this day, being the second day of May, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight. (Joseph Smith History 1:59-60)
Lucy Mack Smith's account of the retrieval of the gold plates:
My husband soon learned that ten or twelve men were clubbed together, with one Willard Chase, a Methodist class leader, at their head; and what was still more ridiculous, they had sent sixty or seventy miles for a certain conjuror, to come and divine the place where the plates were secreted.
We supposed that Joseph had taken the plates, and hid them somewhere, and we were apprehensive that our enemies might discover their place of deposit. Accordingly, the next morning, after hearing of their plans, my husband concluded to go among the neighbours to see what he could learn with regard to the plans of the adverse party. The first house he came to, he found the conjuror and Willard Chase, together with the rest of the clan. Making an errand, he went in and sat down near the door, leaving it a little ajar, in order to overhear their conversation. They stood in the yard near the door, and were devising plans to find "Joe Smith's gold bible," as they expressed themselves. The conjuror seemed much animated, although he had travelled sixty miles the day and night previous.
Presently, the woman of the house, becoming uneasy at the exposures they were making, stepped through a back door into the yard, and called to her husband, in a suppressed tone, but loud enough to be heard distinctly by Mr. Smith, "Sam, Sam, you are cutting your own throat." At this the conjuror [p.103] bawled out at the top of his voice, "I am not afraid of any body—we will have them plates in spite of Joe Smith or all the devils in hell." When the woman came in again, Mr. Smith laid aside a newspaper which he had been holding in his hand, and remarked, "I believe I have not time to finish reading the paper now." He then left the house, and returned home. Mr. Smith, on returning home, asked Emma, if she knew whether Joseph had taken the plates from their place of deposit, or if she was able to tell him where they were. She said, she could not tell where they were, or whether they were removed from their place. My husband then related what he had both seen and heard....
[104] The plates were secreted about three miles from home, in the following manner. Finding an old birch log much decayed, excepting the bark, which was in a measure sound, he lock, his pocket knife and cut the bark with some care, then turned it back, and made a hole of sufficient size to receive the plates, and laying them in the cavity thus formed, he replaced the bark; after which he laid across the log, in several places, some old stuff that happened to lay near, in order to conceal, as much as possible, the place in which they were deposited.
Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home.
[105] After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Travelling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. lie was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running.
After resting a few moments, he desired me to send Carlos for my husband, Mr. Knight, and his friend Steal....[12]
One anti-Mormon website claims that even at 40-60 lbs, the story of Joseph running with the plates is impossible.[13]
The critics claim:
It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men for some 1 to 2 miles that were bent on taking the plates from Joseph.
First, Lucy does not say that Joseph "outran" the men—in each case, a man tried to ambush him alone, and Joseph struck them and ran on. So, the key question would seem to be, "Was Joseph physically capable of incapacitating someone with a blow?" His well-known skill at wrestling and stick-pulling would suggest that he was. He does not have to outrun three men trying to trap him simultaneously.
Second, Lucy also says that at least one of the men had traveled sixty miles the day and night before. This suggests that he, at least, would not have been at his peak by the time he accosted Joseph, and probably more ill-suited to a long chase than the prophet.
Third, this type of thing is not "inconceivable" at all:
While such feats are not easy, and are tiring (and Joseph had to rest a bit before even asking his mother to go get help), they are well within human ability, then and now.
The critics claim:
And all this from a young man that had a slight limp and would have difficulty running at a high speed for a long distance - especially carrying a 50 lb. weight.
What evidence is there that Joseph's "slight limp" made it hard for him to run at high speed? Joseph managed fine during the Zion's Camp march of nearly a thousand miles on foot at 25-40 miles per day.[15] He'd had the limp since his boyhood operation, and was likely well-adjusted to it.
It also didn't seem to stop Joseph from competing well in footraces and high jumping:
. . . All of the Henrie boys were of the rugged athletic type and all were fairly big fellows. Daniel being the smallest, but he was strong and wirey. They loved to wrestle, run and jump and often did it in the less tense moments when they had time. The prophet also loved and excelled in these sports and one day Daniel related he walked up to one of their high corral gates—it came up to his chin as he measured it—then he walked back a little way, took a running jump, and cleared the gate easily. Daniel related that he often beat the Prophet racing and also at the high jump, but when the prophet thought it was his turn to win and he really tried, he could out them all.[16]
This doesn't sound like a man whose limp is crippling him--and Joseph was younger and likely more fit during the Book of Mormon translating period, when he was focused almost entirely on farming, rather than splitting his attention as required for Church administration.
The critics claim:
If the story is but a 'tall tale', regardless of its origins, it should not be taught in church as a true, historical account, as we have been taught growing up in the church, just to provide another faith-promoting event.
We have no reason to think the story of Joseph running with the plates is a "tall tale" save MormonThink's "argument from incredulity"—they don't believe it can be done, so therefore it's a tall tale. But, people clearly can and do do what Joseph claimed he did, especially when the story which his mother actually told (three separate attacks by individual men) is considered.
Daniel C. Peterson wrote the following for Meridian Magazine on this criticism.
Later estimates of the weight of the gold plates of the Book of Mormon (by those who had briefly held them, such as the official witness Martin Harris and the unofficial witness William Smith) put that weight at somewhere in the range of forty to sixty pounds. Some critics, accordingly, have contended that Joseph Smith could not have carried them for any significant distance, let alone run with them through the woods. The plates — if they actually existed and weighed as much as the witnesses say they did — were simply too heavy. Thus, these critics argue, at least that portion of his story must be fraudulent.
With that argument in mind, I call your attention to a scene from the Interpreter Foundation’s Witnesses film project that depicts Joseph Smith, played by Paul Wuthrich, being chased by money diggers while he’s carrying the plates.
It appears briefly in the official trailer for Interpreter’s Witnesses theatrical film and is shown at relative length in the “overview” that is now available on the website of Interpreter’s docudrama, Undaunted:
I was not present on the outdoor “set” for that day’s filming, but here’s some background on the scene that is directly relevant to the critics’ argument. It’s based on communication with Russell Richins and James G. Jordan, who are, respectively, the producer and associate producer of Witnesses: Filming “Joseph Smith” with the plates, and running from and interacting with the attackers, took a considerable amount of time.
Knowing that filming the scene of Joseph running with the plates would require several hours, Paul Wuthrich was presented with the option of going with something lighter as a prop. He opted to use the two prop sets of plates that metallurgist Dave Baird had created, based on Baird’s careful research. Somewhat amusingly, one set came to be called the “non-hero set.” They weighed somewhere between thirty (30) and thirty-five (35) pounds. We’re more certain of the weight of the other set — unsurprisingly labeled the “hero set” — because Russell Richins weighed them himself. They came in at forty-five (45) pounds. In other words, at roughly the weight of the historical plates themselves.
During the relevant filming day, the two sets were switched out at various times. Sometimes the secondary or “non-hero” prop was used, and sometimes the “hero set.” “At all times,” comments Russell Richins, “when you see Paul Wuthrich running or using the plates in the scenes, he is using one of these two sets. Bottom line, Paul was in very similar circumstances that Joseph Smith faced except for this one exception – – Paul Wuthrich did it over and over and over again throughout the day. Yes, he was exhausted, but he did it. A whole crew witnessed it.”
Those who have not been involved with filming of this sort would, I think, be astonished at how many takes and re-takes need to be done for even relatively simple indoor scenes.
Paul Wuthrich ran down the hill repeatedly, carrying the plates, jumping over rocks and logs, trying to avoid low branches. He did it many times, for different takes, so that filming could be done from a variety of angles. He had to run down the hill with the plates, then climb up the hill once more with the plates, then run down the hill, then climb up the hill again.
I like Russell Richins’s summary statement:
Whether they want to accept it or not, people are going to have to face the fact that Joseph Smith, used to day labor and a very fit individual known for his strength, was fighting for his and the plates’ safety, perhaps even his life. Additionally, this claim would have been quite achievable for many young men of his time. Even Martin Harris lifted the plates, as did eight other rural Americans. People must remember that Martin Harris was older, but a farmer used to working physically. This was very common.Another interesting tidbit is that Annie Passman, about 16 years of age and playing Joseph Smith’s sister Katherine, lifted the hero, 45 pound, set of plates from the floor to the table throughout the entire day as we ran that scene many, many times while filming. Was it tiring? Yes. Was it doable? I think we have proven that clearly, in both cases.
And we’re not even invoking supernatural or divine aid.[17]
Oliver Cowdery described the plates as found by Joseph:
First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not,) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smooth. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph, or a sketch of each, which had it not ben for this, and the never failing goodness of God, we might have perished in our sins, having been left to bow down before the altars of the Gentiles and to have paid homage to the priests of Baal! I must [196] not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstance you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered, when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.
- - Oliver Cowdery to W. W. Phelps, "Letter VIII," Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 2 no. 1 (October 1835), 195–196. off-site
The Journal of Book of Mormon Studies states:
Were the Book of Mormon plates pure gold, or were they made from an alloy that looked like gold? The most serious investigation of this question was done 45 years ago by Read H. Putnam of Evanston, Wyoming, a blacksmith and metallurgist. [1] Working first from the general dimensions of the set of plates as reported by eyewitnesses, he calculated that a block of pure gold of that size would have weighed a little over 200 pounds. A number of witnesses, however, put the weight of the set at about 60 pounds. The discrepancy can be partly accounted for by the fact that the leaves must have been handcrafted, presumably by hammering, and irregularities in flatness would have left air space between the plates. This led Putnam to surmise that the entire set of plates would have weighed probably less than 50 percent of the weight of a solid block of the metal.
Because the weight of a metal depends on its purity, we must also consider whether the plates were of pure gold. The Nephites were aware of purity distinctions and alloys. We know, for example, that the "brass" plates were of an alloy (quite surely bronze, a copper-tin mixture) [2] and that the plates of Ether were specifically distinguished as being of "pure" gold (Mosiah 8:9). Furthermore, Nephi taught his associates "to work in all manner of" metals and "precious ores" (2 Nephi 5:15). Yet nowhere does the text say that the Nephites' plates were of pure gold.
Joseph Smith's brother William specifically said that the material of the plates was "a mixture of gold and copper." [3] (Someone must have provided an objective basis for that statement, for the natural assumption would have been that the plates were pure gold.) The cautious statements by other witnesses, including Joseph Smith himself, who spoke of the plates as having "the appearance of gold," suggest that the metal may have been an alloy. [4]
Putnam observed that the only two colored metals from antiquity were gold and copper. An alloy of those two elements was called "tumbaga" by the Spaniards and was in common use in ancient tropical America for manufacturing precious objects. Putnam put forward the reasonable hypothesis that metal plates made in Mormon's day were of that material (the earliest Mesoamerican archaeological specimen of tumbaga—made from a hammered metal sheet—dates to the same century, the fifth century AD, when Moroni hid up the plates he had in his possession).[5] If Mormon's Book of Mormon plates were made of tumbaga, their weight would have been much less than had they been made of pure gold.[18] Putnam made that point in mathematical detail and concluded that the total weight of the plates in Joseph Smith's charge would have been near the 60-pound figure reported by several witnesses.
It is of interest that tumbaga was commonly gilded by applying citric acid to the surface. The resulting chemical reaction eliminated copper atoms from the outer .0006 inch of the surface, leaving a microscopic layer of 23-carat gold that made the object look like it was wholly gold. [6] Plates having "the appearance of gold," then, are exactly what we would expect if they were made of tumbaga.[7] [Footnote markers have been left in; references are available on the original site, see footnote.][19]
The critics have made an ad hoc assumption that Joseph made plates out of tin. There is no known evidence to support this assertion, nor does it explain how skeptical witnesses were convinced that they were made of gold, rather than tin. This accusation is interesting, because it shows how desperate some critics are to discredit Joseph Smith, yet they cannot dismiss the repeated testimony that he had actual, physical plates which many witnesses concluded were of gold, and of ancient origin.
The Book of Mormon declares that it was originally written in language known by Mormon as “reformed Egyptian”.[20]
There are a few examples of reformed Egyptian scripts that Latter-day Saints have identified. None have proposed that these were the scripts used to compose the original text of the Book of Mormon, but instead have used these to show that the idea of using a reformed Egyptian script to compose a text is plausible given the ancient context that the Book of Mormon is claimed to emerge from.
Critics have asked how the Book of Mormon plate text could have fit on the plates given the plates' dimensions. The plates were consistently described by witnesses as “about 8 inches in length, 6 or 7 inches in width, and 4 or 6 inches in depth, with the appearance of gold.”[21] There was a large portion of the plates that was sealed. Only about an inch of loose plates was available for Joseph Smith to translate. Below is a replica of the plates. The darker portion is the sealed portion while the lighter and looser portion is what Joseph Smith translated.
Perhaps the best answer to this is that Egyptian and Mesoamerican languages are primarily logographic languages. Logographs can represent a word or phrase. Perhaps the Book of Mormon was composed in a language that incorporated both Egyptian and Mesoamerican logographs to give us the “reformed Egyptian”. Large amounts of the translated Book of Mormon text could have been contained in the logographs of this Egypto-mesoamerican logographic system.
Indeed, the idea Book of Mormon plate text was composed logographically appears plausible given the Caractors Document that is allegedly a copy of the original Anthon Transcript known popularly among Latter-day Saints. Though there are some cautions that all parties should keep in mind when treating the document as an authentic representation of the original Anthon transcript or of what characters were originally on the Book of Mormon plates. Book of Mormon Central has produced a beautiful, well-documented essay and explanatory video to illuminate these complexities and prospects surrounding the so-called" Caractors Document". Readers can watch/read both by clicking on the link to the right. The video is embedded below as well.
It would be well to always keep in mind that the original script that the Book of Mormon was composed in—what the characters on the plates actually looked like—is not known with certainty today. Therefore, we do not know what, if any, meanings were attached to those characters. Some students of Latter-day Saint apologetics might unwittingly say that Hieratic or Demotic, for instance, was the actual script that the plate text was composed in. But that is very likely not true. When repeating that claim, it may lead our critics to continue to ask this question unnecessarily.
Hopefully this can give all the insight necessary to give a plausible enough “reason for the hope that is within us” for the ancient plausibility and historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon and the integrity of its claimed prophet-translator.[22]
To see citations to the critical sources for these claims, click here
Notes
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
We are a volunteer organization. We invite you to give back.
Donate Now