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Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 1
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Contents
- 1 Response to claims in "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile"
- 1.1 Quick Navigation
- 1.2 Response to claim: Joseph was told during the First Vision that "all the Christian Church's doctrines 'were an abomination'"
- 1.3 Response to claim: Mormonism is a "polytheistic religion," because of the belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate personages
- 1.3.2 FAIR's Response
- 1.5.1 A growing consensus of scholars recognizes that God, as depicted in the Bible, is embodied
- 1.5.2 It is incorrect to imply that God cannot be in human form, since a fundamental doctrine of Christianity is that Jesus is God, made flesh
- 1.5.3 These verses say nothing about the nature or form of God—they merely assert that God is not like man in certain ways
Response to claims in "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile"
| A FAIR Analysis of: Watchman Fellowship A work by author: Rick Branch
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Claims made in "Hinckley Claims LDS Worship Different Christ" |
- Response to claim: Joseph was told during the First Vision that "all the Christian Church's doctrines 'were an abomination'"
- Response to claim: Mormonism is a "polytheistic religion," because of the belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate personages
- Response to claim: According to Joseph Smith, God "was once a man like us"
- Response to claim: Brigham Young said that the birth of Jesus Christ "was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action"
- Response to claim: Jesus "is the brother of Lucifer"
- Response to claim: Latter-day Saints make a distinction between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit
- Response to claim: "every worthy male, according to the standards of Mormonism, will become a god and rule over their own planet"
- Response to claim: There is a "Mother God"
- Response to claim: We are all spiritual offspring of our Heavenly Father and Mother, and we once lived in the pre-existence
- Response to claim: "Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence"
- Response to claim: salvation or exaltation "is based on one's own good works or merit"
- Response to claim: Latter-day Saint consider the Bible "suspect due to its many errors and missing parts"
Response to claim: Joseph was told during the First Vision that "all the Christian Church's doctrines 'were an abomination'"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
The authors claim that Joseph was told during the First Vision that "all the Christian Church's doctrines 'were an abomination'."Author's sources: *Joseph Smith - History 19, Pearl of Great Price.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: Mormonism is a "polytheistic religion," because of the belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate personages
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
The authors claim that Mormonism is a "polytheistic religion," because of the belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate personages.Author's sources: *Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 370.
- McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: According to Joseph Smith, God "was once a man like us"
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Question: Does the doctrine that God has a physical body contradict the Bible?
A growing consensus of scholars recognizes that God, as depicted in the Bible, is embodied
The overwhelming academic consensus is that God, as depicted in the Bible, is embodied. Several books that you can read bare this out:
- Kamionkowski, S. Tamar and Wonil Kim, eds. Bodies, Embodiment, and Theology of the Hebrew Bible. New York: T&T Clark International, 2010.
- Halton, Charles. A Human-Shaped God: Theology of an Embodied God. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 2021.
- Wilson, Brittany E. The Embodied God: Seeing the Divine in Luke-Acts and the Early Church. New York: Oxford University Press, 2021.
- Wagner, Andreas. God's Body: The Anthropomorphic God in the Old Testament. Trans. Marion Salzmann. New York: T&T Clark, 2019.
- Markschies, Christoph. God's Body: Jewish, Christian, and Pagan Images of God. Waco, TX: Baylor University Press, 2019.
- Sommer, Benjamin D. The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, 2011.
- Stavarakopolou, Francesca. God: An Anatomy. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2021.
This last book, God: An Anatomy, was helpfully reviewed by Latter-day Saint scholar and apologist Daniel C. Peterson. Peterson commends and gives some cautions regarding the book that may apply more generally to the books just listed. We recommend seeing his review cited below.[1]
It is incorrect to imply that God cannot be in human form, since a fundamental doctrine of Christianity is that Jesus is God, made flesh
Mormons believe that God has a physical body and human form. Does scripture which says that "God is not a man" (e.g. Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29, Hosea 11:9) contradict this idea?
These scriptures read (emphasis added):
- "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man [i.e., a human being], that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" - Numbers 23:19
- "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent." - 1 Samuel 15:29
- I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. - Hosea 11:9
The first passage, in Numbers, not only says that "God is not a man", but it also says that God is not "the son of man." If a Christian were to claim from this passage that God is not a man, they would have to consistently claim that God is also not a "son of man." This of course contradicts many New Testament statements about Jesus (who is God) to the contrary. Though there are many examples, one should suffice. Jesus says, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40 Therefore, we know that the passage from Numbers is not suggesting that God is fundamentally not a "son of man", but rather that God is not a "son of man" in the sense that God doesn't have need for repentance. The next logical step requires us to conclude that the passage is not suggesting that God is fundamentally "not a man", but that God is not a man in the sense that God does not lie.
These verses say nothing about the nature or form of God—they merely assert that God is not like man in certain ways
God will not lie or change his declared course, unlike humans. As the NET translation of 1 Samuel says, "The Preeminent One of Israel does not go back on his word or change his mind, for he is not a human being who changes his mind.”
It is incorrect to imply that God cannot be in human form—the fundamental doctrine of Christianity is that Jesus is God, made flesh. One would have to assume that these verses also apply to Jesus, when they clearly do not. Jesus may be in human form, but he will not sin, or change his mind from doing his father's will.
Response to claim: Brigham Young said that the birth of Jesus Christ "was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
Brigham Young said that the birth of Jesus Christ "was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action."Author's sources: *Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:115.
- McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 742.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: Jesus "is the brother of Lucifer"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
Jesus "is the brother of Lucifer."Author's sources: *Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, 15.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: Latter-day Saints make a distinction between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
Latter-day Saints make a distinction between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit.Author's sources: *McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 752.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: "every worthy male, according to the standards of Mormonism, will become a god and rule over their own planet"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
The authors state the "every worthy male, according to the standards of Mormonism, will become a god and rule over their own planet." The authors state that women are excluded.Author's sources: *Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: There is a "Mother God"
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Gospel Topics: "Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them"
"Becoming Like God," Gospel Topics on LDS.org:
Eliza R. Snow, a Church leader and poet, rejoiced over the doctrine that we are, in a full and absolute sense, children of God. “I had learned to call thee Father, / Thru thy Spirit from on high,” she wrote, “But, until the key of knowledge / Was restored, I knew not why.” Latter-day Saints have also been moved by the knowledge that their divine parentage includes a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father. Expressing that truth, Eliza R. Snow asked, “In the heav’ns are parents single?” and answered with a resounding no: “Truth eternal / Tells me I’ve a mother there.”45 That knowledge plays an important role in Latter-day Saint belief. As Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote, “Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them.”[2]
Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe in a female divine person, a "Heavenly Mother" as counterpart to God, the Heavenly Father?
Latter-day Saints infer the existence of a Heavenly Mother through scripture and modern revelation
Because LDS theology rejects the doctrine of creation out of nothing (creatio ex nihilo) as a post-Biblical addition to Christian belief, and because they see God as embodied in human form while rejecting creedal Trinitarianism, having a female counterpart to Our Heavenly Father seems logical and almost inevitable. This is especially true given the LDS embrace of the doctrine of theosis, or human deification. Thus, the Heavenly Mother shares parenthood with the Father, and shares His attributes of perfection, holiness, and glory.
There is evidence for this doctrine in ancient Israel,[3] and within the Book of Mormon.[4]
As early as 1839, Joseph Smith taught the idea of a Heavenly Mother.[5] Eliza R. Snow composed a poem (later set to music) which provides the most well-known expression of this doctrine:[6]
- In the heav´ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I´ve a mother there.
When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?
- In the heav´ns are parents single?
In 1909 the First Presidency, under Joseph F. Smith, wrote that
man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father [as an] offspring of celestial parentage...all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity....[7]
The 1995 statement issued by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles, entitled The Family: A Proclamation to the World, states that all men and women are children of heavenly parents (plural), which implies the existence of a Mother in Heaven.[8]
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny.
Response to claim: We are all spiritual offspring of our Heavenly Father and Mother, and we once lived in the pre-existence
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
We are all spiritual offspring of our Heavenly Father and Mother, and we once lived in the pre-existence.Author's sources: *McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 589.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
This is an accurate reflection of LDS belief.- For a detailed response, see: Heavenly Parents
Response to claim: "Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
The authors claim that "Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence."Author's sources: *Melvin J. Ballard, Three Degrees of Glory, p. 21.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
This claim is false; the critics cite an author from 1922—and here he makes it clear he is only expressing his opinion: "I am convinced." This idea has since been repeatedly repudiated by leaders of the Church.- For a detailed response, see: Repudiated ideas about race
- For a detailed response, see: LDS do not regard their leaders as infallible
- For a detailed response, see: Only the LDS President and prophet may declare doctrine
Response to claim: salvation or exaltation "is based on one's own good works or merit"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
The authors claim that salvation or exaltation "is based on one's own good works or merit."Author's sources: *Lowell Bennion, "The Religion of the Latter-day Saints," p. 160.
- Church News, October 8, 1988, p. 23.
FAIR's Response
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Response to claim: Latter-day Saint consider the Bible "suspect due to its many errors and missing parts"
The author(s) of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile make(s) the following claim:
The authors claim that Latter-day Saint consider the Bible "suspect due to its many errors and missing parts."Author's sources: *Articles of Faith No. 8, Ensign January 1989, pp. 25, 27.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
The article of faith says only that LDS believe the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly." LDS are not bound by transmission or translation errors by non-prophetic authors. They are not scriptural inerrantists.- For a detailed response, see: Scriptural inerrancy and LDS cherish the Bible