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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 10
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Contents
- 1 Response to claims made in "Chapter 10: A New Beginning"
- 1.3 Claim
- Did Willard Richards have Samuel Smith murdered to prevent any succession issues?
- Samuel's wife accused the Nauvoo Chief of Police: Hosea Stout.
- Polygamy was "being enjoyed" by certain members of the Twelve Apostles at the time of Joseph's death.
- Author's quote: "Mormon thieves, who regularly stole from non-Mormons..."
- The book claims that this had been a long-standing complaint about Saints in the area since eight issues of the Warsaw Signal published in late 1844 and early 1845 included articles related to "Mormon Thieves."
- Did Joseph Smith tell Porter Rockwell that "it was right to steal?"
- Did Orson Hyde say that it was OK to "steal & be influenced by the spirit of the Lord to do it" as long as it was against non-Mormons?
- Did the Nauvoo police commit "many murders, vicious beatings, and intimidating assaults" against people that they thought to be enemies of the Church?
- Author's quote: "Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites Porter Rockwell, Hosea Stout, and Allen Stout."
- Did Heber C. Kimball and Orson Hyde order Nauvoo's police force to kill an apostate named Lambert Symes, who "subsequently disappeared without a trace?"
- Was "Mormon dissenter" Irvine Hodge "presumably" murdered by Nauvoo policemen because he threatened to "expose every Mormon who had been involved in stealing from non-Mormons" and threatened to harm Brigham Young and a Nauvoo policeman?
- Were members of the Council of Fifty responsible for committing murders?
- Was Jonathan Dunham killed because he had "ignored the prophet's direct order to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a rescue at Carthage Jail?"
- Did Nauvoo Police Chief Hosea Stout have three men flogged because they "were not in good fellowship?"
- Were outsiders who were not "murdered or severely beaten" instead "whittled" out of town by Brigham's 'Whistling and Whittling Brigade?'"
- Was the "Whistling and Whittling Brigade" a "violent gang of Mormons" that were "in good standing with the church?"
- Do Government records indicate that Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Parley Pratt, and Orson Hyde were involved in making counterfeit coins?
- Did that practice start "under Joseph's leadership?"
- Did Brigham chose to start the exodus westward early because he was faced with the possibility of counterfeiting charges?
- Brigham "proudly admitted" "'I have been your dictator for twenty-seven years--over a quarter of a century I have dictated this people.'"
- Do Latter-day Saints believe that "they were the only ones with a legitimate right to be stewards of the Lord's property—i.e., all creation. Gentiles, on the other hand, because they had no claim to the earth, would have to give up to the Saints what they mistakenly viewed as their property?"
- Did Brigham claim that God's kingdom had already come when he said: "[T]hat Kingdom is actually organized, and the inhabitants of earth do not [even] know it,"
- Brigham said: "[W]e will roll on the Kingdom of our God, gather out the seed of Abraham, build the cities and temples of Zion, and establish the Kingdom of God to bear rule over all the earth."
- Did salvation depend upon obedience to Brigham Young?
- When Mary Ettie V. Smith recalled asked Brigham, "are you my Saviour?" she claims that Brigham said, "Most assuredly I am....You cannot enter the Celestial kingdom, except by my consent. Do you doubt it?"
- Did Brigham Young believe that one day he "would himself become president of the United States, or dictate who should be president?"
- John Taylor said "We used to have a difference between Church and State, but it is all one now..."
- Author's quote: "Mormon leaders ruled via a ruthlessly oppressive theocracy wherein they kept followers in line through violence and intimidation."
- Was the Mormon Reformation was one of the most violent periods in Latter-day Saint history?
- Were there "numerous murders" committed at the request of Brigham Young and other Church leaders?
Response to claims made in "Chapter 10: A New Beginning"
| Claims made in "Chapter 9: March to Martyrdom" | A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
Claims made in "Chapter 11: Bloody Brigham" |
205 (HB,PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "Unrepentant abandonment to the 'lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the boastful pride of life' (1 John 2:16) had caused Joseph's ruin; nothing more, nothing less."
Author's source(s) - No source provided other than 1 Jn 2:16.
207, 548n12 (PB)
Claim
- Did Willard Richards have Samuel Smith murdered to prevent any succession issues?
- Samuel's wife accused the Nauvoo Chief of Police: Hosea Stout.
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 153.
- The following is on page 548 in the endnote: "Although Quinn explains in great depth the various reasons why it is probable that Stout killed Samuel, he adds a word of caution: 'This troubling allegation should not be ignored but cannot be verified.'"
- The book does not make clear how Samuel's wife's suspicion that Hosea Stout killed her husband relates to Willard Richards possibly having "gone so far as to have Samuel murdered."
207, 548n13 (PB)
Claim
- Polygamy was "being enjoyed" by certain members of the Twelve Apostles at the time of Joseph's death.
Author's source(s) - Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 78.
- Many more than the Twelve had taken plural wives. Thirty-three men had taken plural wives by the martyrdom.[1]
- Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mind reading
211, 549n27 (PB)
Author's source(s)
- Marshall Hamilton, "From Assassination to Expulsion: Two Years of Distrust, Hostility, and Violence," in Launius and Hallwas, 216.
- Notable omissions: Warsaw Signal and Mormon thieves
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
211, 549n28 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph Smith tell Porter Rockwell that "it was right to steal?"
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 637.
- Joseph Smith taught Porter Rockwell 'it was right to steal'?
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
211, 549n29 (PB)
Claim
- Did Orson Hyde say that it was OK to "steal & be influenced by the spirit of the Lord to do it" as long as it was against non-Mormons?
Author's source(s) - Orson Hyde. Quoted in John Bennion, "John Bennion Journal," under October 13, 1860; cf. Brigham Young Office Journal, April 3, 1860.
211, 549n31-34 (PB)
Claim
- Did the Nauvoo police commit "many murders, vicious beatings, and intimidating assaults" against people that they thought to be enemies of the Church?
Author's source(s) - Allen J. Stout, "Allen J. Stout Journal," under June 28, 1844, Utah State Historical Society, 14, online at http://www.math.byu.edu/~smithw/Lds/LDS/Early-Saints/AStout.html
- Hosea Stout, under February 22, 1845 and March 13, 1847, in Juanita Brooks, ed., On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, vol. 1, 22; 241.
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 151, 643.
- Misrepresentation of source: Use of sources:Nauvoo police violence
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
212, 549n35-37 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites Porter Rockwell, Hosea Stout, and Allen Stout."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, vol. 7, 446-447.
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 653.
- George Rockwell, letter to Thomas Rockwell, September 23, 1845. Quoted in D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 181..
- If the number of murders is unknown, how can we be 'certain' that these three men committed most of them?
- If three men are responsible for most of the (alleged) murders, then that is evidence for their perfidy, and not evidence of a general church policy of violence and murder.
- The author has demolished his own argument.
- Loaded and prejudicial language
213, 549n38 (PB)
Claim
- Did Heber C. Kimball and Orson Hyde order Nauvoo's police force to kill an apostate named Lambert Symes, who "subsequently disappeared without a trace?"
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 181.
- Misrepresentation of source: Indeed, Symes 'disappeared' so completely than there is no record of him ever existing!
- Use of sources: Killing Lambert Symes
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
213, 550n41-43
Claim
- Was "Mormon dissenter" Irvine Hodge "presumably" murdered by Nauvoo policemen because he threatened to "expose every Mormon who had been involved in stealing from non-Mormons" and threatened to harm Brigham Young and a Nauvoo policeman?
Author's source(s) - William Hall, The Abominations of Mormonism Exposed, 31-34.
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 217, 651.
- Brigham Young. Quoted on an undated page of statements by Jehiel Savage, Charles B. Thompson, George J. Adams, and Joseph Younger.
- Misrepresentation of source: Use of sources: Irvine Hodge murder
213, 550n44-45 (PB)
Claim
- Were members of the Council of Fifty responsible for committing murders?
Author's source(s) - Oliver B. Huntington, statement in "Seymour B. Young Diary," under May 23, 1903.
- Clayton, under July 5, 1845.
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 179.
- Misrepresentation of source: Other homicides by members of the Council of Fifty
- Oath of vengeance
213, 550n44 (PB)
Claim
- Was Jonathan Dunham killed because he had "ignored the prophet's direct order to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a rescue at Carthage Jail?"
Author's source(s) - Oliver B. Huntington, statement in "Seymour B. Young Diary," under May 23, 1903; see D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 179.
- Uses forged documents as genuine!
- The claims about Dunham are extremely questionable.
214, 550n46
Claim
- Did Nauvoo Police Chief Hosea Stout have three men flogged because they "were not in good fellowship?"
Author's source(s) - Hosea Stout, under September 14, 1845, in Brooks, vol. 1, 63.
- Flogging those out of fellowship
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
214, 550n49-51
Claim
- Were outsiders who were not "murdered or severely beaten" instead "whittled" out of town by Brigham's 'Whistling and Whittling Brigade?'"
- Was the "Whistling and Whittling Brigade" a "violent gang of Mormons" that were "in good standing with the church?"
Author's source(s) - William B. Pace, William B. Pace Autobiography. Quoted in Dean Moody, "Nauvoo's Whistling and Whittling Brigade," BYU Studies (Summer 1975), vol. 15, 487. BYU Studies article PDF]
- Citation error: should be "Thurmon Dean Moody."
- Jehiel Savage statement in minutes of the high council of James Strang's followers at Voree, Wisconsin, April 6, 1846.
- Hosea Stout, under April 27, 1845, in Brooks, vol. 1, 36.
- Whistling and Whittling Brigades
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
216-217, 552n62-65 (HB)
550n62-65 (PB)
Claim
- Do Government records indicate that Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Parley Pratt, and Orson Hyde were involved in making counterfeit coins?
- Did that practice start "under Joseph's leadership?"
Author's source(s) - Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Mormon Kingdom, vol. 2, 51-64.
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 127, 650-651.
- Warsaw Signal, June 5, 1844.
- St Louis American, December 2, 1845.
- Counterfeiting apostles and Joseph
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
217
Claim
- Did Brigham chose to start the exodus westward early because he was faced with the possibility of counterfeiting charges?
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
- The counterfeiting charges were likely a ploy to ensure that the Mormons left Nauvoo in 1846 as promised. Young's announcement that he would head west sent the message that they would not linger, which is what the local anti-Mormons wanted.
- Crime and violence in Nauvoo
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
- Loaded and prejudicial language
220, 553n77 (HB)
Claim
- Brigham "proudly admitted" "'I have been your dictator for twenty-seven years--over a quarter of a century I have dictated this people.'"
Author's source(s) - Brigham Young, August 13, 1871, Journal of Discourses, vol. 14, 205.
221-222, 551n84-87
Claim
- Do Latter-day Saints believe that "they were the only ones with a legitimate right to be stewards of the Lord's property—i.e., all creation. Gentiles, on the other hand, because they had no claim to the earth, would have to give up to the Saints what they mistakenly viewed as their property?"
Author's source(s) - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 2:298-308.
- S[olomon] N. Carvalho, Incidents of Travel and Adventure in the Far West; with Col. Fremont's Last Expedition 142-143.
- History of the Church, 1:150. Volume 1 link; cf. DC 42꞉37.
222, 554n88 (HB)
Claim
- Did Brigham claim that God's kingdom had already come when he said: "[T]hat Kingdom is actually organized, and the inhabitants of earth do not [even] know it,"
Author's source(s) - Young, July 8, 1855, in Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, 310.
222, 554n89 (HB)
Claim
- Brigham said: "[W]e will roll on the Kingdom of our God, gather out the seed of Abraham, build the cities and temples of Zion, and establish the Kingdom of God to bear rule over all the earth."
Author's source(s) - Young, July 8, 1855, in Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, 317.
223, 552n94
Claim
- Did salvation depend upon obedience to Brigham Young?
- When Mary Ettie V. Smith recalled asked Brigham, "are you my Saviour?" she claims that Brigham said, "Most assuredly I am....You cannot enter the Celestial kingdom, except by my consent. Do you doubt it?"
Author's source(s) - Quoted in Nelson Winch Green, Mormonism: its rise, progress, and present condition. Embracing the narrative of Mrs. Mary Ettie V. Smith, 201.
223, 552n95
Claim
- Did Brigham Young believe that one day he "would himself become president of the United States, or dictate who should be president?"
Author's source(s) - Hubert Howe Bancroft, History of Utah, 1540-1886, 505.
223, 552n96 (PB)
Claim
- John Taylor said "We used to have a difference between Church and State, but it is all one now..."
Author's source(s) - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 5:266.
223, 552n97 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "Mormon leaders ruled via a ruthlessly oppressive theocracy wherein they kept followers in line through violence and intimidation."
Author's source(s) - Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 2:107.
- Misrepresentation of source: Heber C. Kimball--violence and intimidation
224, 552n98 (PB)
Claim
- Was the Mormon Reformation was one of the most violent periods in Latter-day Saint history?
- Were there "numerous murders" committed at the request of Brigham Young and other Church leaders?
Author's source(s) - Ann Eliza Young, Wife No. 19, or the Story of A Life In Bondage, Being A Complete Expose of Mormonism, and Revealing the Sorrows, Sacrifices and Sufferings of Women in Polygamy, Chapter 18.
- The author cites only a late, notoriously anti-Mormon nineteenth-century polemic for this claim.
- [note] George D. Smith, Nauvoo Polygamy: "...but we called it celestial marriage" (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2008), 310. ( Index of claims , (Detailed book review))
Further reading
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
| {{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} | To learn more about responses to: Big Love | edit |
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