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The Late War
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Contents
- 1 Questions and Answers
- 2 Question: Does the Book of Mormon phrase "curious workmanship" originate from Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
- 3 Question: Does Gilbert Hunt's The Late War talk of 2000 "striplings" who go to war?
- 3.1 Critics' comparison: It is noted that both books talk of two thousand young men who went to war [2]
- 3.2 Full context comparison: "striplings" are not mentioned in connection with the Late War's "two thousand hardy men"
- 3.3 The 1828 Webster's dictionary definition for the word "stripling" simply means "a youth in the state of adolescence"
- 3.4 The word "stripling" has no particular association with war or warriors. It simply refers to an adolescent
- 3.5 The mention of “2000” may simply be coincidence
- 4 Question: Is Gilbert Hunt's phrase "the fourth day of this seventh month" in The Late War a source for the Book of Mormon phrase "the fourth day of this seventh month" in Alma 10:6?
- 5 Question: Was the Book of Mormon description of a cataclysm at the time of Christ's death derived from a similar description in Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
- 5.1 Critics' comparison: It is claimed that both books describe "cataclysms" [6]
- 5.2 Full context comparison: The critics' source material for this particular extraction of text from the Book of Mormon covers 17 verses
- 5.3 The Late War Chapter 19 (p. 69-70) appears to describe the explosion of an ammunition magazine, which is compared to the effects of an earthquake
- 6 Question: Are there similarities between the description of forts in the Book of Mormon and Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
- 6.1 Critics' comparison: Ditches, fortifications and strongholds
- 6.2 Full context comparison of Alma 49:20-22 with The Late War 29:20-21
- 6.3 Alma 49 talks of the Nephites digging a "ridge of earth" to prevent stones and arrows from reaching them
- 6.4 Alma 53꞉6 talks of the Nephites building a "stronghold" to keep prisoners
- 6.5 The Late War 51 (p. 199-201) talks of "entrenching" the "high places" around the city and building "strong holds" off-site
- 7 Question: Does the Book of Mormon mention "polished steel" of "fine workmanship" as described in Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
- 8 Question: Does the Book of Mormon, like Gilbert Hunt's The Late War, talk of "freemen who came to the defence of the city, built strong holds and forts, and raised up fortifications in abundance"?
- 9 Question: Were the Three Nephites of the Book of Mormon based upon three of the "lying prophets among the savages" in Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
- 9.1 Critics' comparison: three "Indian prophets" are compared to the "three disciples of Jesus who should tarry [9]
- 9.2 3 Nephi 28:4 talks of "the three disciples of Jesus" while The Late War talks of "three of the Indian prophets" who were among the "lying prophets among the savages"
- 9.3 It seems unlikely that Joseph Smith would base the idea of three righteous disciples on the story of three "lying prophets among the savages"
- 10 Question: Is there significance to the fact that both the Book of Mormon and Gilbert Hunt's The Late War mention a "rod of iron"?
- 11 Question: Do both the Book of Mormon and Gilbert Hunt's The Late War talk about people maintaining a "standard of liberty"?
- 12 Question: Could Gilbert Hunt's The Late War have given Joseph Smith the idea of using brass plates as a way of recording information?
- 12.1 Critics' comparison: Both books mention engraving a record on metal [9]
- 12.2 3 Nephi 10:17 talks of "plates of brass" while 'The Late War 31:33 talks of "imaginary evils" that are "graven in brass" and "good deeds" that are "graven in sand"
- 12.3 1 Nephi 19:1 talks of "engraven" records and Mosiah 21:27 talks of records "engraven on plates of ore" while The Late War talks of a "silver plate" with "gravings thereon"
- 12.4 The Late War does not speak of "brass plates"
Questions and Answers
Question: Did Joseph Smith plagiarize passages from Gilbert Hunt's book The Late War, between the United States and Great Britain, from June, 1812, to February, 1815
Did Joseph Smith rely on the 1819 book "The Late War" by Gilbert Hunt while dictating the Book of Mormon?
Question: Does the Book of Mormon phrase "curious workmanship" originate from Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
Critics' comparison: It is claimed that both books mention weapons of war of “curious workmanship” [1]
- Book of Mormon, Ether 10:27: And ... weapons of war ... of exceedingly curious workmanship
- The Late War 19:13: And ... weapons of war were of curious workmanship
Full context comparison: The Book of Mormon does not talk of weapons of war of curious workmanship
27 And they did make all manner of weapons of war. And they did work all manner of work of exceedingly curious workmanship.
The Late War Chapter 19 (p. 67):
13 And their weapons of war were of curious workmanship, and they sent forth balls of lead; such as were unknown to Pharaoh when he followed the Children of Israel down into the red sea.
Note that the Book of Mormon mentions weapons, and then mentions additional objects that were of "curious workmanship." The Late War, on the other hand, is describing weapons of war (in this case guns that fire "balls of lead") as being perceived to be of "curious workmanship." The presentation of the Book of Mormon passage, however, is altered by the critics to make it appear that the Book of Mormon is talking about "weapons of war....of exceedingly curious workmanship." This is done in an attempt to enhance the perceived similarity of the passages.
The Bible speaks of "curious works" and describes "curious" objects
In Exodus 35:32 we read:
And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass.
The Bible also describes at least one object as being "curious" in Exodus 28꞉8 and Exodus 39꞉5. Exodus 28:8:
And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
Exodus 39:5:
And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the Lord commanded Moses.
Question: Does Gilbert Hunt's The Late War talk of 2000 "striplings" who go to war?
Critics' comparison: It is noted that both books talk of two thousand young men who went to war [2]
- Book of Mormon, Alma 53:18-20: two thousand of those young men ... to defend their country. ... they took their weapons of war, ... were all young men, and they were exceeding valiant for courage, ...[3]
- The Late War 35:5-6: two thousand hardy men, who ... fought freely for their country ... Now the men of war ... were ... men of dauntless courage.
The authors note that "The Late War does not include the phrase 'stripling soldiers' like the Book of Mormon; however, it does share the same context as the distinctive Book of Mormon story: striplings in battle, including a band of 2,000 courageous soldiers who volunteer in a desperate fight for the freedom of their country against an oppressive king (Amalickiah / King George III)."[4]
Full context comparison: "striplings" are not mentioned in connection with the Late War's "two thousand hardy men"
This passage from the Late War does not mention "striplings" or "stripling soldiers".
18 Now behold, there were two thousand of those young men, who entered into this covenant and took their weapons of war to defend their country.
19 And now behold, as they never had hitherto been a disadvantage to the Nephites, they became now at this period of time also a great support; for they took their weapons of war, and they would that Helaman should be their leader.
20 And they were all young men, and they were exceedingly valiant for courage, and also for strength and activity; but behold, this was not all—they were men who were true at all times in whatsoever thing they were entrusted.
21 Yea, they were men of truth and soberness, for they had been taught to keep the commandments of God and to walk uprightly before him.
22 And now it came to pass that Helaman did march at the head of his two thousand stripling soldiers, to the support of the people in the borders of the land on the south by the west sea.
The Late War Chapter 35 (p.126):
5 Immediately Jackson took two thousand hardy men, who were called volunteers, because they had, unsolicited, offered their services to their country, and led them against the savages.
6 Now the men of war who followed after him were mostly from the state of Tennessee, and men of dauntless courage.
The 1828 Webster's dictionary definition for the word "stripling" simply means "a youth in the state of adolescence"
From Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary:
STRIPLING, n. [from strip, stripe; primarily a tall slender youth, one that shoots up suddenly. ] A youth in the state of adolescence, or just passing from
The word "stripling" has no particular association with war or warriors. It simply refers to an adolescent
In order to find the word "stripling," one must go to back to Chapter 19:32, or Chapter 28:2:
The Late War Chapter 19 (p. 69):
32 About this time, a stripling from the south, with his weapon of war in his hand, ran up to Zebulon, and spake unto him, saying
The Late War, Chapter 28 (p. 99):
2 And the vessels of war of Columbia that were upon the waters of the lake were not yet prepared for the battle; the name of their commander was M'Donough, a stripling.
The mention of “2000” may simply be coincidence
In light of other evidence against the Late War, the mention of “2000” may likely be a coincidence
Question: Is Gilbert Hunt's phrase "the fourth day of this seventh month" in The Late War a source for the Book of Mormon phrase "the fourth day of this seventh month" in Alma 10:6?
Critics' comparison: The "4th of July" appears in the Book of Mormon and the Late War, "the fourth day of the seventh month..." [5]
- Alma 10:6: the fourth day of this seventh month, which is in the tenth year of the reign of the judges.
- The Late War 26:1: the fourth day of the seventh month, which is the birth day of Columbian Liberty and Independence,
This is typical biblical phraseology, and it is not at all unique to The Late War
- Zechariah 7:1: And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of the Lord came unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;
- Nehemiah 9:1: Now in the twenty and fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, and with sackclothes, and earth upon them.
- 2 Kings 25:3: And on the ninth day of the fourth month the famine prevailed in the city, and there was no bread for the people of the land.
- 2 Chronicles 29:17: Now they began on the first day of the first month to sanctify, and on the eighth day of the month came they to the porch of the Lord: so they sanctified the house of the Lord in eight days; and in the sixteenth day of the first month they made an end.
- Ezra 7:9: For upon the first day of the first month began he to go up from Babylon, and on the first day of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God upon him.
- Exodus 40:2: On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
- 2 Chronicles 3:2: And he began to build in the second day of the second month, in the fourth year of his reign.
- 2 Kings 25:3: And on the ninth day of the fourth month the famine prevailed in the city, and there was no bread for the people of the land.
- Joshua 4:19: And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho.
- Leviticus 25:9: Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
- Ezra 8:31: Then we departed from the river of Ahava on the twelfth day of the first month, to go unto Jerusalem: and the hand of our God was upon us, and he delivered us from the hand of the enemy, and of such as lay in wait by the way.
There is nothing unique about the "4th of July" in the Book of Mormon
The Book of Mormon also mentions other dates in the same manner:
- The 3rd of July is mentioned in Alma 56:42: But it came to pass that they did not pursue us far before they halted; and it was in the morning of the third day of the seventh month.
- The 5th of February is mentioned in Alma 16:1: And it came to pass in the eleventh year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi, on the fifth day of the second month, there having been much peace in the land of Zarahemla, there having been no wars nor contentions for a certain number of years, even until the fifth day of the second month in the eleventh year, there was a cry of war heard throughout the land.
Question: Was the Book of Mormon description of a cataclysm at the time of Christ's death derived from a similar description in Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
Critics' comparison: It is claimed that both books describe "cataclysms" [6]
- Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 8: ...thunder, ... did shake the whole earth ... cities were sunk, and ... the face of the whole earth... could feel the vapor of darkness ... so that ... for the space of three days, that there was no light seen; ... great destruction had come upon them.
- The Late War 19:37-44: ...thunders: ... as the mighty earthquake, which overturneth cities. And the whole face of the earth ... overshadowed with black smoke; so that, for a time, one man saw not another: ... sharp rocks had fallen upon them:
One critic claims that both books describe "cataclysmic earthquake followed by great darkness"[7]
Full context comparison: The critics' source material for this particular extraction of text from the Book of Mormon covers 17 verses
6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.
7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.
8 And the city of Zarahemla did take fire.
9 And the city of Moroni did sink into the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof were drowned.
10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.
11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.
12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;
13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.
14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.
15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.
16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.
17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.
18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.
19 And it came to pass that when the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the storm, and the tempest, and the quakings of the earth did cease—for behold, they did last for about the space of three hours; and it was said by some that the time was greater; nevertheless, all these great and terrible things were done in about the space of three hours—and then behold, there was darkness upon the face of the land.
20 And it came to pass that there was thick darkness upon all the face of the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof who had not fallen could feel the vapor of darkness;
21 And there could be no light, because of the darkness, neither candles, neither torches; neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood, so that there could not be any light at all;
22 And there was not any light seen, neither fire, nor glimmer, neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the stars, for so great were the mists of darkness which were upon the face of the land.
23 And it came to pass that it did last for the space of three days that there was no light seen; and there was great mourning and howling and weeping among all the people continually; yea, great were the groanings of the people, because of the darkness and the great destruction which had come upon them.
The Late War Chapter 19 (p. 69-70) appears to describe the explosion of an ammunition magazine, which is compared to the effects of an earthquake
37 But as the young man returned to where the army stayed, behold! the black dust in the hold caught fire, and it rent the air with the noise of a thousand thunders:
38 And the whole army fell down upon their faces to the earth; and the stones, and the fragments of rocks, were lifted high; and the falling thereof was terrible even unto death.
39 Yea, it was dreadful as the mighty earthquake, which overturneth cities.
40 And the whole face of the earth round about, and the army of Zebulon, were overshadowed with black smoke; so that, for a time, one man saw not another:
41 But when the heavy clouds of smoke passed away towards the west, behold the earth was covered with the killed and the wounded.
42 Alas! the sight was shocking to behold; as the deed was ignoble.
43 About two hundred men rose not: the stones had bruised them; the sharp rocks had fallen upon them:
44 They were wedged into the earth: their weapons of war were beat down into the ground with them; their feet were turned towards heaven; their limbs were lopped off.
Question: Are there similarities between the description of forts in the Book of Mormon and Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
Critics' comparison: Ditches, fortifications and strongholds
- Book of Mormon, Alma 49:20-25: [men] were prepared, with their swords and their slings, to smite ... with an immense slaughter ... ditches ...filled up in a measure with their dead and wounded.
- The Late War 29:20-23: [men] were prepared ... and they let loose their weapons of war ... and smote ... with great slaughter. And the deep ditch that surrounded the fort was strewed with their slain and their wounded.
And
- Book of Mormon, Alma 49,52: it came to pass ... on the tenth day of the month ... the Nephites had dug a ridge of earth ... so high [...] round about ... the city ... And ... built a strong hold ...
- The Late War 51: it came to pass ... on the tenth day of the eighth month ... the people began to fortify ... and entrench the high places round about the city. And ... build their strong holds ...
One critic states that both books talk about "Fortifications: 'the people began to fortify themselves and entrench the high Places round about the city.'"[8]
Full context comparison of Alma 49:20-22 with The Late War 29:20-21
20 Thus they were prepared, yea, a body of their strongest men, with their swords and their slings, to smite down all who should attempt to come into their place of security by the place of entrance; and thus were they prepared to defend themselves against the Lamanites.
21 And it came to pass that the captains of the Lamanites brought up their armies before the place of entrance, and began to contend with the Nephites, to get into their place of security; but behold, they were driven back from time to time, insomuch that they were slain with an immense slaughter.
22 Now when they found that they could not obtain power over the Nephites by the pass, they began to dig down their banks of earth that they might obtain a pass to their armies, that they might have an equal chance to fight; but behold, in these attempts they were swept off by the stones and arrows which were thrown at them; and instead of filling up their ditches by pulling down the banks of earth, they were filled up in a measure with their dead and wounded bodies.
The Late War Chapter 29 (p. 104) off-site:
20 But the men of Croghan were prepared for them; and they let loose their weapons of war upon them, and set their destroying engine to work, and smote the men of Britain, hip and thigh, with great slaughter.
21 And the deep ditch that surrounded the fort was strewed with their slain and their wounded.
Alma 49 talks of the Nephites digging a "ridge of earth" to prevent stones and arrows from reaching them
1 And now it came to pass in the eleventh month of the nineteenth year, on the tenth day of the month, the armies of the Lamanites were seen approaching towards the land of Ammonihah.
2 ...Skipped
3 ...Skipped
4 But behold, how great was their disappointment; for behold, the Nephites had dug up a ridge of earth round about them, which was so high that the Lamanites could not cast their stones and their arrows at them that they might take effect, neither could they come upon them save it was by their place of entrance.
5 ....Skipped
6 ....Skipped
7 ....Skipped
8 ....Skipped
9 ....Skipped
10 Now, if king Amalickiah had come down out of the land of Nephi, at the head of his army, perhaps he would have caused the Lamanites to have attacked the Nephites at the city of Ammonihah; for behold, he did care not for the blood of his people.
11 But behold, Amalickiah did not come down himself to battle. And behold, his chief captains durst not attack the Nephites at the city of Ammonihah, for Moroni had altered the management of affairs among the Nephites, insomuch that the Lamanites were disappointed in their places of retreat and they could not come upon them.
Alma 50 ...Skipped
Alma 51 ...Skipped
Alma 52 ...Skipped
Alma 53꞉6 talks of the Nephites building a "stronghold" to keep prisoners
6 And it came to pass that Moroni had thus gained a victory over one of the greatest of the armies of the Lamanites, and had obtained possession of the city of Mulek, which was one of the strongest holds of the Lamanites in the land of Nephi; and thus he had also built a stronghold to retain his prisoners.
The Late War 51 (p. 199-201) talks of "entrenching" the "high places" around the city and building "strong holds" off-site
3 So it came to pass, that the husbandmen from the surrounding country gathered together, and pitched their tents hard by the city.
4 ...Skipped
5 ...Skipped
6 ...Skipped
7 ...Skipped
8 Moreover, on the tenth day of the eighth month, in the eighteen hundred and fourteenth year, the inhabitants assembled together in the midst of the city, even in a place called the Park, where the Federal Hall, a superb edifice, rears its majestic front; within the walls of which the wise men, the expounders of the law, preside, and deliberate for the benefit of the people.
9 ...Skipped
10 ...Skipped
11 ...Skipped
12 ...Skipped
13 ...Skipped
14 So the people began to fortify themselves and entrench the high places round about the city.
15 And when they went out in its defence, to build their strong holds and to raise up their battlements; lo! the steam-boats of Fulton conveyed them thither, about a thousand at a time, even towards the heights of Brooklyn in the east, and the heights of Haerlem in the north.
Question: Does the Book of Mormon mention "polished steel" of "fine workmanship" as described in Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
Critics' comparison: It is noted that both books mention "steel" and "fine workmanship" in the same paragraph [9]
One critic of the Church seems to find the phrase "“Their polished steels of fine workmanship" in The Late War to be somehow indicative that the Book of Mormon copied this concept, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon never mentions this.[10]
The Book of Mormon speaks of "fine workmanship of wood," while The Late War talks of "polished steels of fine workmanship"
8 And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the land, and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver, and in precious things, and in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of war—yea, the sharp pointed arrow, and the quiver, and the dart, and the javelin, and all preparations for war.
The Late War Chapter 54 (p. 216) off-site:
7 Their polished steels, of fine workmanship, glittered in the sun, and the movement of their sqadrons was as the waving of a wheat-field, when the south wind passeth gently over it.
Question: Does the Book of Mormon, like Gilbert Hunt's The Late War, talk of "freemen who came to the defence of the city, built strong holds and forts, and raised up fortifications in abundance"?
Critics' comparison: The word "freemen" appears in both books [9]
6 And those who were desirous that Pahoran should remain chief judge over the land took upon them the name of freemen; and thus was the division among them, for the freemen had sworn or covenanted to maintain their rights and the privileges of their religion by a free government.
25 And except ye grant mine epistle, and come out and show unto me a true spirit of freedom, and strive to strengthen and fortify our armies, and grant unto them food for their support, behold I will leave a part of my freemen to maintain this part of our land, and I will leave the strength and the blessings of God upon them, that none other power can operate against them—
The Late War 51 (p. 200) off-site
7 Nevertheless, it was so that the freemen who came to the defence of the city, built strong holds and forts, and raised up fortifications in abundance, inasmuch as the whole place was as it were one camp.
The Late War 38:26-27 (p. 141) off-site
26 Nevertheless, David said unto the captains of the king, Come singly, and not like cowards, upon me; then shall ye receive the thunders of the freemen of Columbia abundantly;
27 And her liberty shall not suffer, although in the contest ye may destroy my vessel upon the face of the waters.
The Late War 48:12 (p. 180) off-site:
With the spirit of freemen, they grasped their weapons of war in their hands, and went out to meet them without fear; resolved to conquer or to die.
The "freemen" of the Book of Mormon did not build fortifications
One critic of the Church notes the phrase “Nevertheless, it was so that the freeman came to the defence of the city, built strong holds and forts and raised up fortifications in abundance" as indicative of some connection to the Book of Mormon. [11] However, the Book of Mormon passages referring to "freemen" (as opposed to "king men") say nothing about them building fortifications.
The word "freemen" was used in Colonial times
Wikipedia "Freemen (Colonial)":
Freeman is a term which originated in 12th-century Europe and was common as an English or American Colonial expression in Puritan times. In the Bay Colony, a man had to be a member of the Church to be a freeman. In Colonial Plymouth, a man did not need to be a member of the Church, but he had to be elected to this privilege by the General Court. Being a freeman carried with it the right to vote, and by 1632 only freemen could vote in Plymouth.[1]
Question: Were the Three Nephites of the Book of Mormon based upon three of the "lying prophets among the savages" in Gilbert Hunt's The Late War?
Critics' comparison: three "Indian prophets" are compared to the "three disciples of Jesus who should tarry [9]
3 Nephi 28:4 talks of "the three disciples of Jesus" while The Late War talks of "three of the Indian prophets" who were among the "lying prophets among the savages"
4 And when he had spoken unto them, he turned himself unto the three, and said unto them: What will ye that I should do unto you, when I am gone unto the Father?
37 Therefore the true believers in Christ, and the true worshipers of Christ, (among whom were the three disciples of Jesus who should tarry) were called Nephites, and Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites.
The Late War 35 (p. 128) off-site
19 And he marched with his army through the wilderness more than an hundred miles, to a town built upon a place called by the savages the Holy-Ground, where three of the Indian prophets dwelt.
20 Now there were lying prophets among the savages, even as there were in the days of old, among the children of Israel; and they prophesied according to their own wishes;
21 And those of shallow understanding believed them, and were led into a snare, whereby their whole tribe was night being destroyed.
It seems unlikely that Joseph Smith would base the idea of three righteous disciples on the story of three "lying prophets among the savages"
One critic of the Church points to the presence of "Three Indian Prophets" and "False Indian prophets" as evidence of similarity between the Book of Mormon and The Late War.[12]
It seems unlikely that Joseph Smith would base three righteous disciples of Jesus Christ, who would remain on earth until Christ's return in a manner similar to the Apostle John, on three "lying prophets among the savages" who "prophesied according to their own wishes."
Question: Is there significance to the fact that both the Book of Mormon and Gilbert Hunt's The Late War mention a "rod of iron"?
Critics' comparison, quoting John Tvedtnes, notes a possessive or descriptive relationship between two nouns[9]
The critics quote Latter-day Saint researcher John Tvedtnes:
When English shows a possessive or descriptive relationship between two nouns, it usually puts the possessive or descriptive noun first: the king's house or wood house. Hebrew, however, uses the opposite order: house the king (which would usually be translated house of the king) or house wood (house of wood). If the Hebrew word order is kept in the English translation, the word of must be added, even though it does not exist in the Hebrew. The Book of Mormon contains a large number of what appear to be translations from the Hebrew preserving the Hebrew word order: — The Hebrew Background of the Book of Mormon, by John A. Tvedtnes
19 And I beheld a rod of iron, and it extended along the bank of the river, and led to the tree by which I stood.
The Late War 3 (p. 15) off-site
3 Then will we rule them with a rod of iron; and they shall be, unto us, hewers of wood and drawers of water.
The phrase "rule them with a rod of iron" actually comes from the Bible, and the phrasing of The Late War is intentionally biblical
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Psalms even talks of "breaking" someone with a rod of iron:
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
Of course, the Book of Mormon's use of the phrase "rod of iron" has nothing to do with ruling over or "breaking" anyone.
Question: Do both the Book of Mormon and Gilbert Hunt's The Late War talk about people maintaining a "standard of liberty"?
Critics' comparison: It is claimed that the two books talk of people "flocking" to a "standard" [9]
- Book of Mormon, Alma 61-62: sent a proclamation throughout ... the land; ... And it came to pass that thousands did flock unto his standard [of liberty] ... they ... went down with their armies ... against the ...
- The Late War 6-7: sent forth a Proclamation, ... abroad ... And it came to pass, that a great multitude flocked to the ... standard of Columbia...they came in battle array against the ...
One critic interprets this to mean that both books speak of "Maintaining the standard of liberty with righteousness," and sees some sort of connection in "And it came to pass, that a great multitude flocked to the banners of the great Sanhedrim" compared to Alma 62:5: "And it came to pass that thousands did flock unto his standard, and did take up their swords in defense of their freedom…" [13]
Full context comparison
Alma 61꞉6
6 And behold, I have sent a proclamation throughout this part of the land; and behold, they are flocking to us daily, to their arms, in the defence of their country and their freedom, and to avenge our wrongs.
7-21 ...Skipped
Alma 62꞉5
1-4 ...Skipped
5 And it came to pass that thousands did flock unto his standard, and did take up their swords in the defence of their freedom, that they might not come into bondage.
6 ...Skipped
7 And it came to pass that Moroni and Pahoran went down with their armies into the land of Zarahemla, and went forth against the city, and did meet the men of Pachus, insomuch that they did come to battle.
The Late War Chapter 6-7 (p. 24-25) off-site
11 From this place, he sent forth a proclamation, which the great Sanhedrim had prepared for him; and the wisdom thereof appeareth even unto this day.
12 ...Skipped
13 Now in the proclamation which Hull published abroad, he invited the people of the province of Canada to join themselves to the host of Columbia, who were come to drive the servants of the king from their borders.
14 And it came to pass, that a great multitude flocked to the banners of the great Sanhedrim.
15 ...Skipped
16 ...Skipped
17 And when the husbandmen of the province of Canada, who had joined the standard of Columbia, learned those things, they wept bitterly; for they were left behind.
18 ...Skipped
19 ...Skipped
Chapter 7, 1 Now the host of the king were few in numbers; nevertheless, they came in battle array against the strong hold of William.
"that a great multitude flocked to the ... standard of Columbia" is actually "that a great multitude flocked to the banners of the great Sanhedrim"
One has to cover quite a bit of ground in order to make this comparison. Even so, the comparison of people "flocking" to a "standard" of liberty in The Late War is forced.
Question: Could Gilbert Hunt's The Late War have given Joseph Smith the idea of using brass plates as a way of recording information?
Critics' comparison: Both books mention engraving a record on metal [9]
3 Nephi 10:17 talks of "plates of brass" while 'The Late War 31:33 talks of "imaginary evils" that are "graven in brass" and "good deeds" that are "graven in sand"
17 Behold, our father Jacob also testified concerning a remnant of the seed of Joseph. And behold, are not we a remnant of the seed of Joseph? And these things which testify of us, are they not written upon the plates of brass which our father Lehi brought out of Jerusalem?
The Late War 36 (p. 134) off-site
26 But the imaginary evils which the children of men commit are oftentimes graven in brass, whilst their actual good deeds are written in sand.
1 Nephi 19:1 talks of "engraven" records and Mosiah 21:27 talks of records "engraven on plates of ore" while The Late War talks of a "silver plate" with "gravings thereon"
1 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded me, wherefore I did make plates of ore that I might engraven upon them the record of my people. And upon the plates which I made I did engraven the record of my father, and also our journeyings in the wilderness, and the prophecies of my father; and also many of mine own prophecies have I engraven upon them.
27 And they brought a record with them, even a record of the people whose bones they had found; and it was engraven on plates of ore.
The Late War 31 (p. 112) off-site
33 Likewise, the people gave him much silver plate, with gravings thereon, mentioning his deeds.
The Late War does not speak of "brass plates"
One critic of the Church misinterprets this data to mean that both books talk about "Brass plates". [14] Although both books talk of "engraving" records, The Late War makes no mention of "brass plates".
- ↑ Chris Johnson, Duane Johnson, "A Comparison of The Book of Mormon and The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain," http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/
- ↑ Chris Johnson, Duane Johnson, "A Comparison of The Book of Mormon and The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain," http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/
- ↑ Alma 53:18-20
- ↑ Chris Johnson, Duane Johnson, "A Comparison of The Book of Mormon and The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain," http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/
- ↑ Chris Johnson, Duane Johnson, "A Comparison of The Book of Mormon and The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain," http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/
- ↑ "A Comparison of The Book of Mormon and The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain," http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision).
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision)
- ↑ 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5 Chris Johnson, Duane Johnson, "A Comparison of The Book of Mormon and The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain," http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision)
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision).
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision).
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision).
- ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (October 2014 revision).