Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Denver Snuffer/Doctrinal claims

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A FairMormon Analysis of Denver Snuffer's Online Claims: Doctrinal claims

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Church has lost priesthood authority

Church has lost priesthood authority

Accusing First Presidency of transgression

Church has lost priesthood authority

Priesthood authority not necessary

Priesthood authority not necessary

Other doctrinal claims

"Deviated" from proper wording for baptism

Denver Snuffer claim:

"When I was baptized into the LDS Church, the baptismal prayer was, "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father..." When I was rebaptized, I was rebaptized by one who had authority from Christ, therefore, in that baptisms the words were, "Having authority given me of Jesus Christ…" If all you are going to do is baptize someone again according to the LDS pattern, with the commission in the Church, do not bother doing it. But if you follow these principles, and if the Spirit empowers you to baptize, then baptize having authority from Christ and follow His words. We have deviated long enough. It is time to return."[1]

FairMormon Response


Question: Have Mormons deviated from proper wording for the baptismal prayer?

In the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith changed the wording to the modern form we know well

Some excommunicated members claim the Church is in error, or is performing invalid baptisms, because the baptismal prayer in 3 Nephi is not used with precisely the same wording [2]:

Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen (3 Nephi 11꞉25, italics added).

Instead, the following wording is used:

Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen (D&C 20꞉73, italics added).

It is true that the wording differs slightly. In the 1833 Book of Commandments (a precursor to the Doctrine and Covenants) the wording given was:

Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.[3]

However, in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith changed the wording to the modern form we know well.

Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.[4]

The Church has not, therefore, deviated from something taught by Joseph. Instead, Joseph made the change and the Church has followed it ever since. Those who claim that the Church has "forgotten" what God has commanded ignore the fact that Joseph was the prophet, and he was authorized to adjust the method by which ordinances are performed.

The Church has remained true to Joseph's instructions; fundamentalists ignore Joseph's teachings, demonstrating that they do not sustain a living prophet delivering on-going revelation to the Church.


Snuffer claims to sustain Joseph Smith, but claims that Joseph's instructions about the prayer were a "deviation" that he (Snuffer) is now to set right.

"Tithing is for the poor"

Denver Snuffer claim:

"Tithing is for the poor."[5]

FairMormon Response


  1. REDIRECT Question: Why does the church spend so much money on temples when children are dying of starvation?

"If you knew what [God] was up to, you could prevent it"

Denver Snuffer claim:

"Prophecy is not given so you can anticipate the details beforehand. Prophecy is only given so that after the event takes place, you can then understand the scriptures’ meaning. Only after He has acted can you understand how the Lord intended to accomplish His will and fulfill His promise. Prophecy’s purpose is not to allow you beforehand to know the events with enough specificity so that God's will could be anticipated, prevented, and frustrated. If you knew what He was up to, you could prevent it. But because you do not, when the prophecies are fulfilled, then you know the Lord has acted. God can use any means He chooses to accomplish His promises. Everything God is doing is not disclosed at the time it is underway."[6]

FairMormon Response


  1. REDIRECT Question: Why does the church spend so much money on temples when children are dying of starvation?

Notes


  1. Jump up ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 16. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration
  2. Jump up ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 16. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration
  3. Jump up ↑ Book of Commandments (Zion: W.W. Phelps & Co., 1833), 24:53.
  4. Jump up ↑ Doctrine and Covenants (Kirtland, Ohio: F.G. Williams & Co., 1835), 2:22.
  5. Jump up ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 30. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration
  6. Jump up ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 11. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration
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