Apostasy/Individual versus organizational

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Criticism

Critics point out that Joseph Smith's First Vision told him:

1. He must join no existing church
2. They were "all" wrong
3. "All" their creeds were an abomination
4. The churches' professors were corrupt.^[1]

They argue that this commits the Latter-day Saints to the view that no genuine Christians existed or exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Source(s) of the Criticism

•  ^{[needs work]}

Response

The response should be brief and summary in nature.

Conclusion

A summary of the argument against the criticism.

Endnotes

1. [note]  See JS-H 1꞉19.

The early Christian Church and the Great Apostasy

Jump to Subtopic:

• Evidence of a total apostasy
• Extent of the apostasy
• Reasons why the apostasy occurred
• The office of Apostle within the ancient Church of Jesus Christ

Evidence of a total apostasy

Jump to Subtopic:

• Biblical evidence of an apostasy after Christ
• Evidence of an apostasy after Christ from early Christian history other than the Bible
• Visible evidence of the apostasy

Biblical evidence of an apostasy after Christ

Jump to details:

• Question: Is there any Biblical evidence that the apostasy began?
• Question: Was the apostasy predicted by the Bible not complete?

Evidence of an apostasy after Christ from early Christian history other than the Bible

Summary: Do the Early Church Fathers and other post-Biblical documents shed any light on the apostasy?

Jump to details:

• Question: Is there any evidence of the apostasy from materials from early Christian history besides the Bible?
• Clement of Rome: "For this reason righteousness and peace are now far departed from you"
• Hegesippus: "These also, as there were none of the apostles left, henceforth attempted, without shame to preach their false doctrine against the gospel of truth"
• Ignatius: "the false prophets and the false apostles"
• Irenaeus: "evil is spread abroad among men"
• Tertullian: "Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition!"
• Cyprian: Cyprian argued that since the Saints had sunk to such low levels of depravity they rightly deserved the harsh judgments of God
• Cyril of Jerusalem: "For men have fallen from the right faith; and some preach the identity of the Son with the Father...This, therefore, is the falling away"

Visible evidence of the apostasy

Jump to details:

• Question: Wouldn't some Christian author or members have noticed the apostasy?

Extent of the apostasy

Jump to Subtopic:

• Complete apostasy after Christ
• Apostasy and the "gates of hell"
• Priesthood on the earth during the apostasy

Complete apostasy after Christ

Summary: Do other Christian denominations believe that no other church on earth is complete, or is this an arrogant belief assumed only by the "Mormons"?

Jump to details:

• Question: Did Christ establish a Church while on the earth?
• Question: Was the apostasy after Christ complete?
• Question: What is the Catholic view of the apostasy?
• Question: What is the reformation view of the apostasy?
• Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe that no genuine Christians exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
• Scholarly quotes on the historical evidence for apostasy

Apostasy and the "gates of hell"

Summary: Is Jesus' teaching about "the gates of hell" prevailing against "the rock" inconsistent with a belief in a universal apostasy?

Jump to details:

• Question: Does the fact that Jesus said, "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" mean that universal apostasy was impossible?
• Question: What are the "gates of hell" or "gates of Hades?"

Priesthood on the earth during the apostasy

Jump to details:

• Question: Was the priesthood on earth during the apostasy?
• Question: Since John the Apostle and the three Nephites did not die, then how could there have been a "complete apostasy" on the earth?

Reasons why the apostasy occurred

Jump to Subtopic:

• God permitted the apostasy to occur
• Relationship of Mormonism to other branches of Christianity

God permitted the apostasy to occur

Summary: If there were some people who would have accepted the Gospel as taught in Mormonism, why did God allow the earthly Church to pass from the earth?

Jump to details:

• Question: Why did God allow the Apostasy to occur?

Relationship of Mormonism to other branches of Christianity

Summary: What does the apostasy doctrine mean with respect to the relationship of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to other branches of Christianity?

Jump to details:

• Question: How does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints relate to other branches of Christianity?
• Non-LDS Christian Stephen H. Webb: Creedal Christians can learn from LDS views about Jesus Christ and creation

The office of Apostle within the ancient Church of Jesus Christ

Jump to details:

• Question: Was Paul a "real" apostle, with authority over the Church like the original Twelve?
• Question: Were the early apostles married?
• Question: Was the Apostle Paul Married?
• Question: Does the Biblical reference by Paul to "apostles and prophets" refer to Church offices?
• Question: Why did Jesus call Twelve Apostles?

Mormonism and priesthood

Jump to Subtopic:

• Restoration of the priesthood
• Administration of priesthood authority
• Criticisms of the Mormon priesthood

Restoration of the priesthood

Jump to Subtopic:

• The manner in which the priesthood was restored
• Date of the restoration of the Melchizedek priesthood

Administration of priesthood authority

Jump to Subtopic:

• Exercising priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
• Granting of priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Criticisms of the Mormon priesthood

Jump to Subtopic:

• Criticisms by traditional Christians of the Mormon concept of priesthood
• Claims by ex-Mormons that Church leaders have lost priesthood authority
• Evidence that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Possesses Priesthood Authority

FAIR web site

Apostasy FairMormon articles on-line

• Roger Keller, "The Apostasy," FAIR 2004 conference. FAIR link
  Dr. Keller is a former Presbyterian minister.

External links

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Learn more about the Great Apostasy

Key sources	Noel B. Reynolds (editor), Early Christians in Disarray: Contemporary LDS Perspectives on the Christian Apostasy (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2005), 1. ISBN 0934893020. off-site
FAIR links	Barry Bickmore, "Joseph Smith Among the Early Christians," Proceedings of the 2014 FAIR Conference (August 2014). link John Gee, "The Corruption of Scripture in the Second Century," Proceedings of the 1999 FAIR Conference (August 1999). link John Hall, "As Far as it is Translated Correctly: The Problem of Tampering with the Word of God in the Transmission and Translation of the New Testament," Proceedings of the 2007 FAIR Conference (August 2007). link Roger Keller, "The Apostasy," Proceedings of the 2004 FAIR Conference (August 2004). link Daniel C. Peterson, "What Has Athens to do with Jerusalem?: Apostasy and Restoration in the Big Picture," Proceedings of the 1999 FAIR Conference (August 1999). link
Online	David Stewart, Jr., "The Christian Apostasy," cumorah.com off-site Roger D. Cook, "'How Deep the Platonism? A Review of Owen and Mosser's Appendix: Hellenism, Greek Philosophy, and the Creedal Straightjacket of Christian Orthodoxy'," FARMS Review 11/2 (2000). [265–299] link Dallin H. Oaks, "Apostasy and Restoration," Ensign (May 1995): 84.off-site Hoyt W. Brewster Jr., "I Have A Question: What Was There in the Creeds of Men that the Lord Found Abominable, as He Stated in the First Vision?”," Ensign (July 1987): 65–67. off-site Hyde M. Merrill, "The Great Apostasy as Seen by Eusebius," Ensign (November 1972): 34.off-site Kent P. Jackson, "Early Signs of the Apostasy," Ensign (December 1984): 8.off-site Richard L. Anderson, "Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp: Three Bishops between the Apostles and Apostasy," Ensign (August 1976): 51.off-site Matthew L. Bowen, "'Unto the Taking Away of Their Stumbling Blocks': The Taking Away and Keeping Back of Plain and Precious Things and Their Restoration in 1 Nephi 13–15," Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship 53/9 (7 October 2022). [145–170] link William J. Hamblin and Daniel C. Peterson, "The Evangelical Is Our Brother (Review of How Wide the Divide? A Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation)," FARMS Review 11/2 (2000). [178–209] link
Video	The Apostasy, Roger Keller (Former Presbyterian minister), 2004 FAIR Conference Part 1: The Apostasy Part 2: The Apostasy Part 3: The Apostasy Part 4: The Apostasy Part 5: The Apostasy Part 1: The Apostasy 1 Part 1: The Apostasy 2 Part 1: The Apostasy 5 Part 1: The Apostasy 4 Part 1: The Apostasy 3
Print	Hugh W. Nibley, "Evangelium Quadraginta Dierum," Vigiliae Christianae 20 (1966):1-24; reprinted in "Evangelium Quadraginta Dierum: The Forty-day Mission of Christ-The Forgotten Heritage," in Mormonism and Early Christianity (Vol. 4 of Collected Works of Hugh Nibley), edited by Todd Compton and Stephen D. Ricks, (Salt Lake City, Utah : Deseret Book Company ; Provo, Utah : Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1987),10–44. direct off-site Matthew B. Brown, "Evidences of Apostasy," in All Things Restored, 2d ed. (American Fork, UT: Covenant, 2006),1–32. AISN B000R4LXSM. ISBN 1577347129.
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Printed material

Apostasy printed materials

• Matthew B. Brown, "Evidences of Apostasy," in All Things Restored, 2d ed. (American Fork, UT: Covenant, 2006),1–32. AISN B000R4LXSM. ISBN 1577347129.
• Noel B. Reynolds (editor), Early Christians in Disarray: Contemporary LDS Perspectives on the Christian Apostasy (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2005), 1. ISBN 0934893020. off-site  (Key source)