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| + | #REDIRECT [[Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Temple]] |
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| − | |title=[[../|MormonThink]]
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| − | |author=Anonymous
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| − | |section=The Temple
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| − | ==A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "The Temple"==
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| − | {{Website response summary|date=29 April 2012}}
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| − | {{MormonThinkSummaryHeader|The Temple}}
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| − | *Critics who claim to be "active" members of the Church, despite their temple covenants, think that it is acceptable to talk about details of the temple because everyone else is doing so.
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| − | *That the temple ceremony has some relationship to Freemasony, which was openly acknowledged by early Church leaders.
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| − | *That the endowment was simply copied from Freemasonry, despite the fact that Joseph discusses some detail about it prior to his becoming a Mason.
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| − | '''NOTE: Members of FAIR take their temple covenants seriously. We therefore do not discuss the particular details of the temple ceremonies. Much of the content of the MormonThink temple page discussed very specific details about the ceremony. FAIR will not discuss or respond to issues related to those details.'''
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| − | It appears that MormonThink's inclusion of those details was causing members to be discouraged from examining their website because of the temple content. In fact, the temple page on the MormonThink website was removed on May 20, 2012 and replaced with the following notice:
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| − | <blockquote>
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| − | MormonThink formerly had a discussion on issues with the origins of the temple ceremony and Masonry. However, some members informed us that '''there are many instances where a truthseeker's spouse would not even consider looking at any of the historical issues discussed anywhere on MormonThink because it discussed the temple''', even though we did not publish a transcript of the ceremonies like many other sites currently do. (emphasis added)
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| − | </blockquote>
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| − | To summarize, MormonThink did ''not'' remove the temple material because its presence was inappropriate or offensive to Latter-day Saints, but rather because its presence made it more difficult to draw believing temple recommend holders into examining their critical website.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= WEBSITE EDITOR COMMENT:
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| − | Due to the sacred nature of the temple ceremony, we initially tried to be sensitive and not use any specific references to temple ordinances. However, we found it impossible to really discuss the issues that trouble many Latter-day Saints without being somewhat open and specific about the activities in the temple. It shouldn't come to anyone's surprise that the complete, accurate temple ceremony is available many places on the Internet with just a click of the mouse, so there really isn't anything new revealed on this website that can't be found in many other websites and books. However we give our own opinions in response to the critic's arguments as well as true-believing member responses.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *If any reader still thinks that MormonThink is run by active members of the Church, this statement ought to disabuse them of that notion. They are basically saying "Despite our covenant with God to keep the temple ordinances sacred, everyone else talks about them, so we might as well talk about them anyway."
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=The temple ceremony appears to be copied from the Masons.
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| − | Heber C. Kimball, a Mason himself said, "We have the true Masonry. The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon, and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing."
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| − | |authorsources=
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| − | *Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 13 November, 1858, 1085, LDS archives; see also Stanley B. Kimball, "Heber C. Kimball and Family, The Nauvoo Years, BrighamYoung University Studies 15 (Summer 1975): 458. See also David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, Smith Research Associates, San Francisco, 1994, 56.)
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| − | |think=
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| − | *Joseph Smith's critics want to label him as an intellectual thief by claiming that he stole some of the ritual elements of Freemasonry in order to create the Nauvoo-era temple endowment ceremony. The greatest obstacles to this theory are the facts that
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| − | #Joseph Smith claimed direct revelation from God regarding the Nauvoo-era endowment,
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| − | #Joseph Smith knew a great deal about the Nauvoo-era endowment ceremony long before the Nauvoo period - and thus long before his entry into the Masonic fraternity, and
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| − | #the Nauvoo-era temple endowment ceremony has numerous exacting parallels to the initiation ceremonies of ancient Israelite and early Christian kings and priests—parallels which cannot be found among Freemasons.
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| − | |quote=
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| − | |response=
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| − | |link=Mormonism and temples/Endowment/Freemasonry
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| − | |subject=Freemasonry
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| − | |summary=Some critics of Mormonism see similarities between the rites of Freemasonry and LDS temple ceremonies and assume that since Joseph Smith was initiated as a Freemason shortly before he introduced the Nauvoo-style endowment he must have plagiarized elements of the Masonic rituals. This viewpoint leads them, in turn, to conclude that the LDS endowment is nothing but a variant form of Masonic initiation and therefore not from a divine source.
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| − | |link2=Mormonism and temples/Ordinances revealed
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| − | |subject2=Temple ordinances: revealed
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| − | |summary2=Critics claim that the LDS temple ordinances were either made up by Joseph Smith or borrowed, by him, from an earthly source. This collection of quotes has been divided into two sections. The first section consists of statements from the LDS Church's official website indicating that the temple ordinances were 'revealed' by the Lord and 'restored' from antiquity. The second section consists of statements from scripture and the General Authorities of the LDS Church.
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| − | }}
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= A detailed comparison between the endowment and Masonry shows beyond any doubt a strong connection between Masonry and the LDS temple ceremony....Joseph's introduction of the endowment ceremony came two months after he had been initiated into Freemasonry.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *Joseph's initiation into Freemasonry (15–16 March 1842) predates his introduction of the full temple endowment among the Saints (4 May 1842), however, there is evidence that Joseph was discussing elements of the endowment in early 1841. The source of this information is Book of Abraham Facsimile 2, for which Joseph explained that Figures 3 and 7 were related in some manner to "the grand Key-words of the Holy Priesthood" and "the sign of the Holy Ghost." Joseph's explanation of Figure 8 was that it contained "writings that cannot be revealed unto the world; but is to be had in the Holy Temple of God."
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| − | |quote=
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| − | <blockquote>
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| − | On 5 May 1841 William Appleby paid a visit to Joseph Smith, who read to him the revelation on temple ordinances, now identified as Doctrine and Covenants 124, that was received 19 January 1841. After the two men discussed baptism for the dead, the Prophet got out his collection of Egyptian papyrus scrolls and, while exhibiting Facsimile 2, explained to Appleby that part of the drawing was related to "the Lord revealing the Grand key words of the Holy Priesthood, to Adam in the garden of Eden, as also to Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, Abraham, and to all whom the Priesthood was revealed."
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| − | <br><br>
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| − | It is also clear from Doctrine and Covenants 124 that Joseph Smith was well aware of the main ritual elements of the Nauvoo endowment ceremony at least as early as 19 January 1841. (See {{s||DC||124||}}.){{ref|brown4}}
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| − | </blockquote>
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| − | |response=
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| − | |link=Temples/Endowment/Freemasonry
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| − | |subject=Temple endowment and Freemasonry
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| − | |summary=Some critics of Mormonism see similarities between the rites of Freemasonry and LDS temple ceremonies and assume that since Joseph Smith was initiated as a Freemason shortly before he introduced the Nauvoo-style endowment he must have plagiarized elements of the Masonic rituals. This viewpoint leads them, in turn, to conclude that the LDS endowment is nothing but a variant form of Masonic initiation and therefore not from a divine source.
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| − | }}
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= We were somewhat startled to find that FAIR admits that Masonry does not date back to Bible Times. They openly state that the Masonry Rituals that resemble the LDS Temple Ceremony date from the 1700s and definitely were not used in Solomon's temple.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|admit}} Why is this startling? FAIR deals with the facts that exist. What ''other'' way is there to state something other than "openly?"
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| − | *Joseph Smith knew a great deal about the Nauvoo-era endowment ceremony long before the Nauvoo period - and thus long before his entry into the Masonic fraternity.
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| − | |quote=
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| − | |response=
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| − | |link=Temples/Endowment/Freemasonry
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| − | |subject=Temple endowment and Freemasonry
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| − | |summary=Some critics of Mormonism see similarities between the rites of Freemasonry and LDS temple ceremonies and assume that since Joseph Smith was initiated as a Freemason shortly before he introduced the Nauvoo-style endowment he must have plagiarized elements of the Masonic rituals. This viewpoint leads them, in turn, to conclude that the LDS endowment is nothing but a variant form of Masonic initiation and therefore not from a divine source.
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| − | }}
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= The temple ceremony coincided with plural marriage as practiced by the early saints. As Joseph did not want to let the masses know about polygamy, he may have introduced the temple ceremony as a way of keeping polygamy a secret while introducing select members into the practice of plural marriage. As an important element of the temple ceremony is to never reveal what happens in the temple, even under penalty of death (before 1990), this would help keep the polygamous marriages a secret by the people that knew about them.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *The presentation of plural marriage was part of the original endowment, therefore everyone who received their endowment would have known about it. In fact, in 1864 George A Smith indicated that at the first endowment, approximately 60 of them apostatized.
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| − | *The endowment was given to hundreds of people before the Nauvoo Temple was abandoned. Nobody has ever claimed that all of those were involved in plural marriage.
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| − | |authorsources=
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| − | *D. Michael Quinn, "The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power," p. 146; see Quinn's citation of Heber J. Grant's journal sheets, 7 June 1907, LDS Archives
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| − | |quote=
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| − | <blockquote>
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| − | George A. Smith, General Conference, Thursday, April 7, 1864 forenoon. [Deseret News 13. 29 April 13, 1864): 224-5; Millennial Star 26. 23 (June 4, 1864): 353-7; Journal History 6-10 April, 1864]. Elder George A. Smith delivered a discourse on the influence of false spirits. The Gospel was preached to accomplish the salvation of the people, and with that object they received it, and knew that they had the world afterwards to contend with; yet, many had permitted some trifling, unimportant object thrown in their path, to cause them to stumble. He had been acquainted with the Church almost from the beginning, and dark clouds had almost constantly attended its growth and progress….After the first endowment was given, some sixty persons apostatized and essayed to form a new church, that would get along easier with the world than the Church established by the commandment of God, but they had dropped into oblivion.<br>
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| − | Increase McGee Van Dusen and Maria Van Dusen, Positively True. A Dialogue between Adam and Eve, The Lord and the Devil, called the Endowment: As was acted by Twelve or Fifteen Thousand, in Secret, in the Nauvoo Temple, said to be revealed from God as a Reward for Building that Splendid Edifice, and the Express Object for which it was built (Albany: C. Killmer, 1847). 10, 15-16.
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| − | </blockquote>
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| − | *One of those first apostates were the van Deusen couple. Craig Foster wrote about them, and included this comment, taken from their book, published almost immediately after their apostasy:
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| − | <blockquote>
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| − | The initiates are led through a series of rooms which are said to represent the Garden of Eden and the fall of Adam and Eve, as well as what he describes as "a Burlesque on all the Sects." The final room, representing the celestial kingdom of God, is the setting for the teaching of the "Spiritual Wife Doctrine," or polygamy. The people are told that all former marriage contracts, as well as the laws of the land, have been "cut asunder"[1]: "It is now the woman's privilege to choose whom she sees fit; if she likes the one she has been living with, she can keep him; if not, she is at liberty to ship him and take another; and it is the man's privilege to have one, two, four, ten, or twenty . . ."<br>
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| − | Ibid., 16. in From Temple Mormon to Anti-Mormon: The Ambivalent Odyssey of Increase Van Dusen
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| − | Craig L. Foster. Dialogue, 27. 3, (Fall 1994): 276
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| − | </blockquote>
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| − | |response=
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| − | |link=Joseph Smith/Martyrdom/Removed garments
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| − | |subject=Removal of temple garments before leaving for Carthage
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| − | |summary=Joseph and others with him removed their garments before traveling to Carthage Jail. Why did they do this?
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Why would Joseph Smith want to wear garments?...One answer of course, is that God commanded Joseph to institute the wearing of garments. Another possibility is that Joseph believed in magical and mystical things such as seer stones; he believed that putting symbols on clothing would protect him from harm. When Joseph was killed, they found a Jupiter Talisman on his body. This supports his belief in magical ornaments and symbols.
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| − | *{{antispeak|unsupported}} This is simply pure speculation with no basis in anything found in contemporary sources.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= We have to wonder why would God want us to be unnecessarily uncomfortable? It's especially difficult on women... It's one thing to tell people to dress modestly, but that can certainly be done without garments. If you can control people down to their underwear, then you really have them....Garments are the Mormon burqas - just worn on the inside.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|mocking}} Latter-day Saints consider the garment sacred and do not appreciate them being referred to as the "Mormon burqas".
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Where's the Love?
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| − | There seems to be an absence of love in the actual temple marriage ceremony. It seems to be more about obeying God and the Church.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|trivialization}} This is an absurd claim. The critic simply wishes to trivialize the ceremony by claiming that it is all about obedience to the Church.
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| − | *The temple marriage ceremony is a very special experience that is performed in a quiet and sacred setting in the presence of immediate family and friends. The ceremony is also an ordinance which binds two people together for eternity. Claiming that there is an "absence of love" is utterly ridiculous.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Our Comments: Even among faithful members, very few people honestly say that their first temple experience was a complete joy or how they could really feel God's love or how Christ-centered they thought the experience was. At a minimum, people are kind and just say that it wasn't what they expected or that it just seemed strange to them.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|generalization}} We know ''many'' people for whom the temple is a very special experience. Just ask any temple-attending active member. If the temple makes them feel "strange," why do they keep going?
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= We've been hearing more and more stories that temple names are being recycled. Many people are reporting that temple patrons are performing endowments for the same deceased people multiple times. Some people report it as clerical errors while others state that sometimes the temples run out of names and just use names over again so the temple goers have someone to perform ordinances for....We imagine it would be quite a let-down if someone drove five hours to do a temple session to only be told that they ran out of valid names. So we understand why the temples may sometimes recycle names but it doesn't change the fact that the dead do not benefit at all from having their ordinance work done a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|circular reasoning}} The critics state that they have "been hearing" stories and that "many people are reporting" things without any substantiation whatsoever. The critics end their summary by assuming that these "stories" are true and that they "understand" why it is necessary.
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| − | *{{antispeak|wishful thinking}} The idea that temple work is in decline and that it is necessary to recycle temple names is an idea that is often floated around on ex-Mormon message boards.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= "The St. George Temple endowment included a revised thirty-minute 'lecture at the veil' which summarized important theological concepts taught in the endowment and also contained references to the Adam-God doctrine. For example, Brigham Young taught in this lecture that Adam 'had begotten all the spirit[s] that was to come to this earth, and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world.... [They] consequently came to this earth and commenced the great work of forming tabernacles for those spirits to dwell in.' *(see footnote) This teaching may have been included in the veil lecture as late as the turn of the century. It is uncertain whether the St. George Temple veil ceremony's Adam-God teaching was included in all temples."
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| − | |authorsources=
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| − | *David John Buerger "The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. 20, No. 4,(Winter, 1987).
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| − | |think=
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| − | *The endowment was and is a ceremony that can be adapted to the needs of its audience. Brigham Young attempted to introduce the concept of Adam-God into the endowment, as far as it had been revealed to him and he was able to interpret it. He was not able to fully resolve the teaching and integrate it into LDS doctrine.
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| − | *After his death, Adam-God was not continued by his successors in the Presidency, and the idea was dropped from the endowment ceremony and from LDS doctrine. If there is anything true in that doctrine, one would expect that truth to be in harmony with what is already revealed. Only further revelation from the Lord's anointed can clear up the matter.
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| − | |quote=
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| − | |response=
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| − | |link=Mormonism and temples/Endowment/Adam-God and the "Lecture at the Veil"
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| − | |subject=Adam-God and the "Lecture at the Veil"
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| − | |summary=Was "Adam-God" ever taught as part of the temple endowment ceremony? I've read about something called "the lecture at the veil" that was supposedly in the endowment at one time.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Why would the church place such emphasis on the temple?...Money...Control...Church importance...Peer pressure.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *The Church emphasizes temple attendance as a way of helping members understand the importance of the plan of salvation and the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is a way for us to renew and remember the covenants that we have made with God.
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| − | *If the Church were emphasizing temple attendance simply for the purposes of acquiring money and exercising control, then why would they emphasize attending the temple often? Would that not simply use up more Church resources such as power, heat and time?
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Shouldn't your entrance into God's Kingdom be based on how you lived your life and what's in your heart, and not dependant on your knowledge of the signs and tokens you learned in the temple?
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|speaking for God}}
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Ending summary by critics. If potential temple goers knew that they would have to wear silly robes at their own weddings, and that they needed to learn secret handshakes and passwords to get into heaven, they wouldn't go. And why is Satan such a big part of the ceremony? Where's Christ?
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|mocking}} Temple robes are treated as sacred. They are only "silly" in the eyes of those who no longer believe.
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| − | *Are they seriously asking where Christ is in the temple ceremony? That would be the personage who goes by the name "Jehovah."
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| − | |quote=
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Our thoughts
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| − | Temples are beautiful buildings that many Latter-day Saints have pictures of hanging on the walls of their homes. If they were just used for public weddings, sealings and special worship services, then the temple would be viewed by members and nonmembers alike as holy places. Baptisms for the dead might still be looked at as a strange practice, but at least it perhaps may have some Biblical justification.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *This is an arrogant assertion. The critics are claiming that if the Church simply removed several of its most important ordinances and turned the temples into something similar to public cathedrals, then everyone would be happy? Latter-day Saints view the temple as a sacred space, and do not have any desire to modify ordinances to make the rest of the world comfortable.
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| − | |quote=
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= However the temple endowment ceremony seems so foreign to the nice, friendly worship services we attend every Sunday in the LDS chapels. The temple ceremony seems almost pagan in nature. It's like a ritual we would expect the Druids to practice. Very few members are really spiritually uplifted when they first go through the temple to take out their endowments. Most feel confused, shocked and not quite sure what to make of their experience in what is supposed to be one of the holiest places on earth. We were always offended when members of other churches referred to our church as a cult. We never really understood why -- until we went through the temple endowment ceremony.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|mocking}} Comparing temple ceremonies to pagan practices is offensive.
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| − | *{{antispeak|generalization}} Many currently active members are spiritually uplifted when they first go through the temple, and revisit the temple often. Just because the critic was not uplifted does not give him or her the ability to speak for the majority of Latter-day Saints and assume that "very few" members are uplifted.
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| − | |quote=
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= Adam and Eve play a major part in the temple ceremony and are treated as actual, real, historical people (the first humans on the planet), which indicates that the temple ceremony is not factual, as Adam and Eve are very likely a myth.
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|circular reasoning}} The critic draws a conclusion that the temple ceremony is invalid based upon an assumption that Adam and Eve did not exist. Latter-day Saints believe that Adam and Eve were real people.
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| − | |quote=
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| − | =={{Endnotes label}}==
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| − | #{{note|brown4}} {{FR-10-1-4}}
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