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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15"
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===Claims made in Chapter 15: "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"=== | ===Claims made in Chapter 15: "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"=== | ||
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====222==== | ====222==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | | | + | The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate." |
| + | |response= | ||
* {{HistoricalError}}: Denton's sloppy research appears again. In ''modern'' usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint.{{ref|modern.jack}} | * {{HistoricalError}}: Denton's sloppy research appears again. In ''modern'' usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint.{{ref|modern.jack}} | ||
* In the nineteenth century, however, a "Jack Mormon" was a ''non''-Mormon who was nevertheless sympathetic or friendly to Mormons.{{ref|sharp.1}} | * In the nineteenth century, however, a "Jack Mormon" was a ''non''-Mormon who was nevertheless sympathetic or friendly to Mormons.{{ref|sharp.1}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
*No source given. | *No source given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
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====224==== | ====224==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | | | + | The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away." |
| + | |response= | ||
* The author here relies only on the testimony of convicted murderer Lee, and self-confessed murderer Klingensmith (who turned state's evidence for immunity). | * The author here relies only on the testimony of convicted murderer Lee, and self-confessed murderer Klingensmith (who turned state's evidence for immunity). | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
*Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191. | *Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191. | ||
*Lee, 339 | *Lee, 339 | ||
*Fielding, ''Tribune Reports'', 109. | *Fielding, ''Tribune Reports'', 109. | ||
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====227==== | ====227==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | | | + | John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm." |
| + | |response= | ||
* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
* Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the ''New York Herald'' reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young."{{ref|versus.brigham}} That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence. | * Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the ''New York Herald'' reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young."{{ref|versus.brigham}} That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence. | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
*Author's opinion. | *Author's opinion. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
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====228==== | ====228==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | | | + | {{AuthorQuote|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}} |
| + | |response= | ||
*If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it? | *If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it? | ||
* {{SecondaryFact}}: The author here again follows Bagley uncritically. | * {{SecondaryFact}}: The author here again follows Bagley uncritically. | ||
| − | * | + | *{{Detail|Brigham Young/Prosecution of Mountain Meadows Massacre/Deal with Brigham Young|l1=Deal with Brigham Young for massacre prosecution?}} |
| − | + | |authorsources= | |
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*{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=300}} | *{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=300}} | ||
*''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207. | *''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
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====230==== | ====230==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | | | + | John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins." |
| + | |response= | ||
* {{MindReading}}: How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed. | * {{MindReading}}: How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed. | ||
* It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws. | * It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws. | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
*No source provided. | *No source provided. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
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====233==== | ====233==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | | | + | Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..." |
| + | |response= | ||
* {{InternalContradiction|This quotation argues ''against'' the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders?}} | * {{InternalContradiction|This quotation argues ''against'' the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders?}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
*No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233. | *No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
=={{Endnotes label}}== | =={{Endnotes label}}== | ||
Revision as of 22:24, 22 March 2011
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
| Chapter 14 | A FAIR Analysis of: American Massacre A work by author: Sally Denton
|
Chapter 16 |
Claims made in Chapter 15: "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"
222
Claim
The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate."
Author's source(s)
- No source given.
Response
- History unclear or in error: Denton's sloppy research appears again. In modern usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint.[1]
- In the nineteenth century, however, a "Jack Mormon" was a non-Mormon who was nevertheless sympathetic or friendly to Mormons.[2]
224
Claim
The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away."
Author's source(s)
- Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, Mountain Meadows Witness, 191.
- Lee, 339
- Fielding, Tribune Reports, 109.
Response
- The author here relies only on the testimony of convicted murderer Lee, and self-confessed murderer Klingensmith (who turned state's evidence for immunity).
227
Claim
John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm."
Author's source(s)
- Author's opinion.
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the New York Herald reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young."[3] That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence.
228
Claim
Author's quote: Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.
Author's source(s)
- Will Bagley, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows (University of Oklahoma Press, 2002), 300.
- Salt Lake Tribune Reports published in Fielding, 207.
Response
- If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it?
- Quotes another author's opinion as if it were fact: The author here again follows Bagley uncritically.
- For a detailed response, see: Deal with Brigham Young for massacre prosecution?
230
Claim
John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided.
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.: How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed.
- It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws.
233
Claim
Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."
Author's source(s)
- No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233.
Response
- Internal contradiction: This quotation argues against the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders?
== Notes ==
- [note] The modern usage of "jack mormon" can be seen in the user-edited Urban Dictionary (accessed 17 June 2009). See also Pat Bagley, "'Jack Mormon' once meant something else" Salt Lake Tribune (13 January 2008): B4.
- [note] See Brigham H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1965), 2:332 note. GospeLink Thomas Sharp (hostile editor of the Warsaw Signal) is the first known to have used the term in print (see Illinois State Register [1 Nov 1844]; reprinted in Nauvoo Neighbor [13 Nov 1844].)
- [note] Robert D. Crockett, "The Denton Debacle (Review of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857)," FARMS Review 16/1 (2004): 135–148. off-site