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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 7"
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{{FAIRAnalysisHeader | {{FAIRAnalysisHeader | ||
| − | |title= | + | |title=The Changing World of Mormonism |
|author=Jerald and Sandra Tanner | |author=Jerald and Sandra Tanner | ||
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===Claims made in Chapter 7: The Godhead=== | ===Claims made in Chapter 7: The Godhead=== | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | |||
====172==== | ====172==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * {{SourceDistortion}} | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *The Book of Mormon teaches that God is a spirit. |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | * {{SourceDistortion}} | ||
| + | *[[God is a Spirit/Book of Mormon teaches God is a spirit|Does the Book of Mormon teach that God is "a spirit"?]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====173==== | ====173==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | *The Book of Moses says that God created the earth, but the Book of Abraham says that "the Gods" created the earth. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* {{Fundamentalism}} | * {{Fundamentalism}} | ||
* "God" may be properly spoken of as one in some senses, and as plural in other senses. | * "God" may be properly spoken of as one in some senses, and as plural in other senses. | ||
| − | * [[Polytheism|Are Mormons polytheists?]] | + | * [[Nature of God/Polytheism|Are Mormons polytheists?]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====177==== | ====177==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | *God is "just an exalted man." | |
| + | |response= | ||
*{{Prejudicial}}: The Saints do not believe that God is "just" anything. The word "just" shows the authors' biases, and their predetermined conclusion that the creedal view of God is automatically "better." | *{{Prejudicial}}: The Saints do not believe that God is "just" anything. The word "just" shows the authors' biases, and their predetermined conclusion that the creedal view of God is automatically "better." | ||
| − | *[[Deification of man]] | + | *[[Nature of God/Deification of man]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====178==== | ====178==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * [[Heavenly Mother]] | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *There is a "Heavenly Mother." |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | * [[Nature of God/Heavenly Mother]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====180==== | ====180==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | *Jesus Christ was conceived through a physical act rather than by the power of the Holy Ghost. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* {{Prejudicial}} | * {{Prejudicial}} | ||
* {{FalseStatement}}: LDS scripture teaches that Jesus was conceived when Mary "was carried away in the Spirit" ({{s|1|Nephi|11|19}}). We know of no details beyond this, save that God the Father was Jesus' literal Father; there is nothing allegorical about Jesus' parentage. | * {{FalseStatement}}: LDS scripture teaches that Jesus was conceived when Mary "was carried away in the Spirit" ({{s|1|Nephi|11|19}}). We know of no details beyond this, save that God the Father was Jesus' literal Father; there is nothing allegorical about Jesus' parentage. | ||
| − | * [[Jesus Christ | + | * [[Jesus Christ/Conception]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
| − | |||
====183==== | ====183==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | *[[Book of Mormon | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *1 Nephi 13:40 was changed from "Christ is the Eternal Father" to "the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world." |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | *[[Book of Mormon/Textual changes#Significant changes|Book of Mormon textual changes—Significant changes]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 32 | *Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 32 | ||
*1 Nephi 13:40. | *1 Nephi 13:40. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====183==== | ====183==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | *[[Book of Mormon | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *1 Nephi 11:18 was changed from "the mother of God" to "the mother of the Son of God" |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | *[[Book of Mormon/Textual changes#Significant changes|Book of Mormon textual changes—Significant changes]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 25 | *Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 25 | ||
*1 Nephi 11:18 | *1 Nephi 11:18 | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====183==== | ====183==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * [[Book of Mormon | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *1 Nephi 11:21 was changed from "the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father" to "the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father." |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | * [[Book of Mormon/Textual changes#Significant changes|Book of Mormon textual changes—Significant changes]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26 | *Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26 | ||
*1 Nephi 11:21 | *1 Nephi 11:21 | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====183==== | ====183==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * [[Book of Mormon | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *1 Nephi 11:32 was changed from "the Everlasting God" to "the Son of the everlasting God." |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | * [[Book of Mormon/Textual changes#Significant changes|Book of Mormon textual changes—Significant changes]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26 | *Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26 | ||
*1 Nephi 11:32 | *1 Nephi 11:32 | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====185==== | ====185==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * [[Lecture 5 teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"]] | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *The Lectures on Faith state that God is a spirit. |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | * [[Nature of God/God is a Spirit/Lecture of Faith 5 teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"|Lecture of Faith 5 teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====185==== | ====185==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | *The Lectures on Faith were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* The Lectures were never canonized. | * The Lectures were never canonized. | ||
| − | * [[Lectures on Faith removed | + | * [[Doctrine and Covenants/Lectures on Faith removed]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====187==== | ====187==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * {{HistoricalError}} | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *The Book of Mormon teaches that God is "unchangable," but LDS leaders taught otherwise. |
| + | |response= | ||
| + | * {{HistoricalError}} | ||
| + | *[[Nature of God/Unchanging]] | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====188==== | ====188==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | *The Lectures on Faith indicate that there are only two personages in the Godhead, and that their mind is the Holy Spirit. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* [[Lecture 5 teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"]] | * [[Lecture 5 teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"]] | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====190==== | ====190==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| + | *LDS leaders can't explain why the Holy Ghost should be denied a body since the Father has one. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* {{Absurd}} | * {{Absurd}} | ||
* {{FalseStatement}}: The scriptures tell us why the Holy Ghost does not (at present) have a body: "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us" ({{s||DC|130|22}}). | * {{FalseStatement}}: The scriptures tell us why the Holy Ghost does not (at present) have a body: "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us" ({{s||DC|130|22}}). | ||
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Holy Ghost/Identity|Will the Holy Ghost receive a body?]] |
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Holy Ghost/Divinity without a body|Holy Ghost—divine without a body?]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====190==== | ====190==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | *The Holy Ghost can't be a God since he doesn't have a body. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* {{Absurd}}: [[Holy_Ghost/Divinity_without_a_body|Holy Ghost—divine without a body?]] | * {{Absurd}}: [[Holy_Ghost/Divinity_without_a_body|Holy Ghost—divine without a body?]] | ||
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Holy Ghost/Identity|Will the Holy Ghost receive a body?]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ||
====191==== | ====191==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| + | *During the First Vision, Joseph learned that the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
* {{HistoricalError}}: It is not clear ''when'' Joseph learned that the Father and Son had physical bodies. | * {{HistoricalError}}: It is not clear ''when'' Joseph learned that the Father and Son had physical bodies. | ||
* The First Vision taught Joseph that body was "incorporated"—i.e., he had form and some location in physical space. But it is not clear that Joseph immediately understood that this corporeality was made of flesh and bone (e.g., he could have been seeing 'spirit bodies' which still have form and location, but not flesh and bone.) | * The First Vision taught Joseph that body was "incorporated"—i.e., he had form and some location in physical space. But it is not clear that Joseph immediately understood that this corporeality was made of flesh and bone (e.g., he could have been seeing 'spirit bodies' which still have form and location, but not flesh and bone.) | ||
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Nature of God/Corporeality of God|Corporeality of God]] |
* [[First_Vision/Joseph_Smith%27s_early_conception_of_God|Joseph Smith's early concept of God]] | * [[First_Vision/Joseph_Smith%27s_early_conception_of_God|Joseph Smith's early concept of God]] | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* {{attn}} | * {{attn}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
Revision as of 22:06, 30 January 2010
| Chapter 6 | A FAIR Analysis of: The Changing World of Mormonism A work by author: Jerald and Sandra Tanner
|
Chapter 8 |
Claims made in Chapter 7: The Godhead
172
Claim
- The Book of Mormon teaches that God is a spirit.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- Misrepresentation of source
- Does the Book of Mormon teach that God is "a spirit"?
173
Claim
- The Book of Moses says that God created the earth, but the Book of Abraham says that "the Gods" created the earth.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- Author(s) impose(s) own fundamentalism on the Saints
- "God" may be properly spoken of as one in some senses, and as plural in other senses.
- Are Mormons polytheists?
177
Claim
- God is "just an exalted man."
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- Prejudicial or loaded language: The Saints do not believe that God is "just" anything. The word "just" shows the authors' biases, and their predetermined conclusion that the creedal view of God is automatically "better."
- Nature of God/Deification of man
178
Claim
- There is a "Heavenly Mother."
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
180
Claim
- Jesus Christ was conceived through a physical act rather than by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- Prejudicial or loaded language
- The author's claim is false: LDS scripture teaches that Jesus was conceived when Mary "was carried away in the Spirit" (1 Nephi 11꞉19). We know of no details beyond this, save that God the Father was Jesus' literal Father; there is nothing allegorical about Jesus' parentage.
- Jesus Christ/Conception
183
Claim
- 1 Nephi 13:40 was changed from "Christ is the Eternal Father" to "the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world."
Author's source(s) - Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 32
- 1 Nephi 13:40.
183
Claim
- 1 Nephi 11:18 was changed from "the mother of God" to "the mother of the Son of God"
Author's source(s) - Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 25
- 1 Nephi 11:18
183
Claim
- 1 Nephi 11:21 was changed from "the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father" to "the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father."
Author's source(s) - Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26
- 1 Nephi 11:21
183
Claim
- 1 Nephi 11:32 was changed from "the Everlasting God" to "the Son of the everlasting God."
Author's source(s) - Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26
- 1 Nephi 11:32
185
Claim
- The Lectures on Faith state that God is a spirit.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
185
Claim
- The Lectures on Faith were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- The Lectures were never canonized.
- Doctrine and Covenants/Lectures on Faith removed
187
Claim
- The Book of Mormon teaches that God is "unchangable," but LDS leaders taught otherwise.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- History unclear or in error
- Nature of God/Unchanging
188
Claim
- The Lectures on Faith indicate that there are only two personages in the Godhead, and that their mind is the Holy Spirit.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
190
Claim
- LDS leaders can't explain why the Holy Ghost should be denied a body since the Father has one.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- Absurd claim
- The author's claim is false: The scriptures tell us why the Holy Ghost does not (at present) have a body: "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us" (DC 130꞉22).
- Will the Holy Ghost receive a body?
- Holy Ghost—divine without a body?
190
Claim
- The Holy Ghost can't be a God since he doesn't have a body.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
191
Claim
- During the First Vision, Joseph learned that the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones.
Author's source(s) - [ATTENTION!]
- History unclear or in error: It is not clear when Joseph learned that the Father and Son had physical bodies.
- The First Vision taught Joseph that body was "incorporated"—i.e., he had form and some location in physical space. But it is not clear that Joseph immediately understood that this corporeality was made of flesh and bone (e.g., he could have been seeing 'spirit bodies' which still have form and location, but not flesh and bone.)
- Corporeality of God
- Joseph Smith's early concept of God