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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 2"
(Reformulate claims) |
(→Claims made in "Chapter 2: Moroni, Magic, and Masonry": mod) |
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====23 (HB)==== | ====23 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Why are "LDS documents...strangely silent" about Joseph Smith's activities between 1820 and 1823? | + | || |
+ | *Why are "LDS documents...strangely silent" about Joseph Smith's activities between 1820 and 1823? | ||
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*Just how much documentation does the author think exists on the activities of a 14 to 17-year-old farm boy living on the frontier during this period? The Church didn't even exist during this time, therefore there would be no "LDS documents." | *Just how much documentation does the author think exists on the activities of a 14 to 17-year-old farm boy living on the frontier during this period? The Church didn't even exist during this time, therefore there would be no "LDS documents." | ||
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====25 (HB)==== | ====25 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Was the angel that appeared to Joseph originally named "Nephi" instead of "Moroni?" | + | || |
+ | *Was the angel that appeared to Joseph originally named "Nephi" instead of "Moroni?" | ||
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*[[Nephi or Moroni]] | *[[Nephi or Moroni]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|55}} | ||
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*Oliver Cowdery, ''Times and Seasons, April 15, 1842, vol. 3, no. 12, 753. | *Oliver Cowdery, ''Times and Seasons, April 15, 1842, vol. 3, no. 12, 753. | ||
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====26, 492n19-20 (HB)==== | ====26, 492n19-20 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Oliver Cowdery say that the First Vision took place in 1823 when Joseph was in his 17th year? | + | || |
+ | *Did Oliver Cowdery say that the First Vision took place in 1823 when Joseph was in his 17th year? | ||
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*[[Oliver Cowdery not aware of First Vision in 1834-35]] | *[[Oliver Cowdery not aware of First Vision in 1834-35]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|34}} | ||
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*Oliver Cowdery, "Letter III," ''Messenger and Advocate'', December 1834, vol. 1, no. 3, 41-43. | *Oliver Cowdery, "Letter III," ''Messenger and Advocate'', December 1834, vol. 1, no. 3, 41-43. | ||
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====26, 492n21 (HB)==== | ====26, 492n21 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Does Joseph's brother William associate Moroni's visit with a revival? | + | || |
+ | *Does Joseph's brother William associate Moroni's visit with a revival? | ||
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*[[William Smith said First Vision was an "angel"?]] | *[[William Smith said First Vision was an "angel"?]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|35}} | ||
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*William Smith, ''William Smith on Mormonism'' cited in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 494. | *William Smith, ''William Smith on Mormonism'' cited in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 494. | ||
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====27, 493n23 (HB)==== | ====27, 493n23 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did George A. Smith merge the First Vision and Moroni's visit? | + | || |
+ | *Did George A. Smith merge the First Vision and Moroni's visit? | ||
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*[[George A. Smith said First Vision was an "angel"]] | *[[George A. Smith said First Vision was an "angel"]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|35}} | ||
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*George A. Smith, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_12/The_Sacrament,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 12, 334]. (November 15, 1863) | *George A. Smith, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_12/The_Sacrament,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 12, 334]. (November 15, 1863) | ||
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====27, 493n24 (HB)==== | ====27, 493n24 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph's mother, say that the First Vision was of the angel in 1823? | + | || |
+ | *Did Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph's mother, say that the First Vision was of the angel in 1823? | ||
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*[[../../Use of sources/Lucy and the angel|Lucy and the angel]] | *[[../../Use of sources/Lucy and the angel|Lucy and the angel]] | ||
*[[Prophet's mother said First Vision was of an "angel"]] | *[[Prophet's mother said First Vision was of an "angel"]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|35}} | ||
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*Lucy Mack Smith, "Preliminary Manuscript" of ''Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and His Progenitors for many Generations'', cited in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 289-291. | *Lucy Mack Smith, "Preliminary Manuscript" of ''Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and His Progenitors for many Generations'', cited in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 289-291. | ||
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====27 (HB)==== | ====27 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joseph engage in "ritual magic and divination?" | + | || |
+ | *Did Joseph engage in "ritual magic and divination?" | ||
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*[[Joseph Smith and the occult]] | *[[Joseph Smith and the occult]] | ||
*[[../../Presentism|Presentism]] | *[[../../Presentism|Presentism]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|45, 351n144}} | ||
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* No source provided. | * No source provided. | ||
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====28 (HB)==== | ====28 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Was Joseph Smith a "money digger?" | + | || |
+ | *Was Joseph Smith a "money digger?" | ||
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*[[Joseph Smith and money digging]] | *[[Joseph Smith and money digging]] | ||
*[[../../Presentism|Presentism]] | *[[../../Presentism|Presentism]] | ||
+ | *{{AbanesBecomingGodsOther|24}} | ||
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* No source provided. | * No source provided. | ||
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====28 (HB)==== | ====28 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joseph use a "peep stone" to search for buried treasure? | + | || |
+ | *Did Joseph use a "peep stone" to search for buried treasure? | ||
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*[[Joseph Smith and seer stones]] | *[[Joseph Smith and seer stones]] | ||
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====29, 494n30 (HB)==== | ====29, 494n30 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Was Joseph's father a "firm believer" in witchcraft and the supernatural? | + | || |
+ | *Was Joseph's father a "firm believer" in witchcraft and the supernatural? | ||
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*[[../../Presentism|Presentism]] | *[[../../Presentism|Presentism]] | ||
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====29, 494-5n33-34 (HB)==== | ====29, 494-5n33-34 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Martin Harris say that Joseph was associated with a company of money diggers? | + | || |
+ | *Did Martin Harris say that Joseph was associated with a company of money diggers? | ||
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*[[Joseph Smith and money digging]] | *[[Joseph Smith and money digging]] | ||
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====29, 495n36 (HB)==== | ====29, 495n36 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joshua Stafford say that Joseph's family "told marvelous stories about ghosts, hob-goblins, caverns, and verious other mysterious matters." | + | || |
+ | *Did Joshua Stafford say that Joseph's family "told marvelous stories about ghosts, hob-goblins, caverns, and verious other mysterious matters." | ||
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*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Joshua Stafford|The Hurlbut affidavits—Joshua Stafford]] | *[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Joshua Stafford|The Hurlbut affidavits—Joshua Stafford]] | ||
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====29-30, 495n37 (HB)==== | ====29-30, 495n37 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did "most of the residents" of Palmyra and Manchester consider the Smith family a "close-knit clan of occultists?" | + | || |
+ | *Did "most of the residents" of Palmyra and Manchester consider the Smith family a "close-knit clan of occultists?" | ||
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*[[Joseph Smith and the occult]] | *[[Joseph Smith and the occult]] | ||
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====30, 495n38 (HB)==== | ====30, 495n38 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did William Stafford state that Joseph used a seer stone to see "the spirits in whose charge these treasures were, clothed in ancient dress?" | + | || |
+ | *Did William Stafford state that Joseph used a seer stone to see "the spirits in whose charge these treasures were, clothed in ancient dress?" | ||
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*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#William Stafford|The Hurlbut affidavits—William Stafford]] | *[[The Hurlbut affidavits#William Stafford|The Hurlbut affidavits—William Stafford]] | ||
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====30, 495n40 (HB)==== | ====30, 495n40 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joseph Capron state that Joseph encouraged others to participate in money digging in order to obtain wealth? | + | || |
+ | *Did Joseph Capron state that Joseph encouraged others to participate in money digging in order to obtain wealth? | ||
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*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Joseph Capron|The Hurlbut affidavits—Joseph Capron]] | *[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Joseph Capron|The Hurlbut affidavits—Joseph Capron]] | ||
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====31, 495n41 (HB)==== | ====31, 495n41 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did the Rev. John Sherer say that Joseph Smith was a "juggler" (i.e. a "con-man")? | + | || |
+ | *Did the Rev. John Sherer say that Joseph Smith was a "juggler" (i.e. a "con-man")? | ||
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====31, 495n42 (HB)==== | ====31, 495n42 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did William Stafford state that Joseph believed that the state of the moon determined the best time to obtain treasures? | + | || |
+ | *Did William Stafford state that Joseph believed that the state of the moon determined the best time to obtain treasures? | ||
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*NOTE: Stafford's testimony was given on Dec. 8th, 1833—three years ''after'' the publication of the Book of Mormon. | *NOTE: Stafford's testimony was given on Dec. 8th, 1833—three years ''after'' the publication of the Book of Mormon. | ||
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====31, 495n43 (HB)==== | ====31, 495n43 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joseph Smith make animal sacrifices to "appease whatever spirits might be guarding the buried treasure?" | + | || |
+ | *Did Joseph Smith make animal sacrifices to "appease whatever spirits might be guarding the buried treasure?" | ||
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====31, 496n44 (HB)==== | ====31, 496n44 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Hiel Lewis claim that dogs, cats and other animals were sacrificed? | + | || |
+ | *Did Hiel Lewis claim that dogs, cats and other animals were sacrificed? | ||
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====33, 495n48 (HB)==== | ====33, 495n48 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joshua Stafford say that Joseph showed him a piece of wood from a box of money that had "mysteriously moved back into the hill?" | + | || |
+ | *Did Joshua Stafford say that Joseph showed him a piece of wood from a box of money that had "mysteriously moved back into the hill?" | ||
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*NOTE: Stafford's testimony was given Nov. 15, 1833—three years ''after'' the publication of the Book of Mormon. | *NOTE: Stafford's testimony was given Nov. 15, 1833—three years ''after'' the publication of the Book of Mormon. | ||
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====36, 497n63 (HB)==== | ====36, 497n63 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Why did LDS historian Reed C. Durham state that the Freemasonry legend of Enoch "seem transformed into the history of Joseph Smith, so much that even it appears to be a kind of symbolic acting out of Masonic lore?" | + | || |
+ | *Why did LDS historian Reed C. Durham state that the Freemasonry legend of Enoch "seem transformed into the history of Joseph Smith, so much that even it appears to be a kind of symbolic acting out of Masonic lore?" | ||
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====36 (HB)==== | ====36 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Did Joseph Smith adapt Masonic rituals for the temple endowment? | + | || |
+ | *Did Joseph Smith adapt Masonic rituals for the temple endowment? | ||
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*[[Temple endowment and Freemasonry]] | *[[Temple endowment and Freemasonry]] | ||
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====40 (HB)==== | ====40 (HB)==== | ||
− | ||Does the Book of Mormon denounce Freemasonry by condemning "secret combinations," "secret signs," and "secret oaths?" | + | || |
+ | *Does the Book of Mormon denounce Freemasonry by condemning "secret combinations," "secret signs," and "secret oaths?" | ||
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* If the Book of Mormon is so anti-Masonic, why did Joseph (as claimed above) then ''adapt'' Masonry for temple ritual? He cannot be both pro- and -anti-Masonic. | * If the Book of Mormon is so anti-Masonic, why did Joseph (as claimed above) then ''adapt'' Masonry for temple ritual? He cannot be both pro- and -anti-Masonic. |
Revision as of 00:45, 17 January 2009
Claims made in "Chapter 1: Vagabond Visionaries" | A FAIR Analysis of: Criticism of Mormonism/Books A work by author: Richard Abanes
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Claims made in "Chapter 3: From Profit to Prophet" |
Claims made in "Chapter 2: Moroni, Magic, and Masonry"
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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23 (HB) |
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25 (HB) |
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26, 492n19-20 (HB) |
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26, 492n21 (HB) |
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27, 493n23 (HB) |
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27, 493n24 (HB) |
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27 (HB) |
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28 (HB) |
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28 (HB) |
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29, 494n30 (HB) |
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29, 494-5n33-34 (HB) |
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29, 495n36 (HB) |
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29-30, 495n37 (HB) |
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30, 495n38 (HB) |
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30, 495n40 (HB) |
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31, 495n41 (HB) |
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31, 495n42 (HB) |
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31, 495n43 (HB) |
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31, 496n44 (HB) |
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33, 495n48 (HB) |
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36, 497n63 (HB) |
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36 (HB) |
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40 (HB) |
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Further reading
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{{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
{{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} | To learn more about responses to: Big Love | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} | To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bill Maher}} | To learn more about responses to: Bill Maher | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bruce H. Porter}} | To learn more about responses to: Bruce H. Porter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Carol Wang Shutter}} | To learn more about responses to: Carol Wang Shutter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: CES Letter}} | To learn more about responses to: CES Letter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Charles Larson}} | To learn more about responses to: Charles Larson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Christopher Nemelka}} | To learn more about responses to: Christopher Nemelka | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Colby Townshed}} | To learn more about responses to: Colby Townshed | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Contender Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Contender Ministries | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Crane and Crane}} | To learn more about responses to: Crane and Crane | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: D. Michael Quinn}} | To learn more about responses to: D. Michael Quinn | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dan Vogel}} | To learn more about responses to: Dan Vogel | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: David John Buerger}} | To learn more about responses to: David John Buerger | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: David Persuitte}} | To learn more about responses to: David Persuitte | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Denver Snuffer}} | To learn more about responses to: Denver Snuffer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dick Bauer}} | To learn more about responses to: Dick Bauer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Duwayne R Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Duwayne R Anderson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Earl Wunderli}} | To learn more about responses to: Earl Wunderli | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ed Decker}} | To learn more about responses to: Ed Decker | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Erikson and Giesler}} | To learn more about responses to: Erikson and Giesler | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ernest Taves}} | To learn more about responses to: Ernest Taves | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Fawn Brodie}} | To learn more about responses to: Fawn Brodie | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: George D Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: George D Smith | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Grant Palmer}} | To learn more about responses to: Grant Palmer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hank Hanegraaff}} | To learn more about responses to: Hank Hanegraaff | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hurlbut-Howe}} | To learn more about responses to: Hurlbut-Howe | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Brooke}} | To learn more about responses to: James Brooke | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Spencer}} | To learn more about responses to: James Spencer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James White}} | To learn more about responses to: James White | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner}} | To learn more about responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD}} | To learn more about responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} | To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jonathan Neville}} | To learn more about responses to: Jonathan Neville | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Kurt Van Gorden}} | To learn more about responses to: Kurt Van Gorden | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery}} | To learn more about responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne}} | To learn more about responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Luke WIlson}} | To learn more about responses to: Luke WIlson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Marquardt and Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Marquardt and Walters | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Martha Beck}} | To learn more about responses to: Martha Beck | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Mcgregor Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Mcgregor Ministries | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: McKeever and Johnson}} | To learn more about responses to: McKeever and Johnson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: New Approaches}} | To learn more about responses to: New Approaches to the Book of Mormon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Abanes}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Abanes | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Van Wagoner}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Van Wagoner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Rick Grunger}} | To learn more about responses to: Rick Grunger | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Ritner}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Ritner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Rod Meldrum}} | To learn more about responses to: Rod Meldrum | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Roger I Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Roger I Anderson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ronald V. Huggins}} | To learn more about responses to: Ronald V. Huggins | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Sally Denton}} | To learn more about responses to: Sally Denton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Simon Southerton}} | To learn more about responses to: Simon Southerton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Thomas Murphy}} | To learn more about responses to: Thomas Murphy | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Todd Compton}} | To learn more about responses to: Todd Compton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Vernal Holley}} | To learn more about responses to: Vernal Holley | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Walter Martin}} | To learn more about responses to: Walter Martin | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Wesley Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Wesley Walters | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Will Bagley}} | To learn more about responses to: Will Bagley | edit |