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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 1"
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=Claims made in "Chapter 1: Vagabond Visionaries"= | =Claims made in "Chapter 1: Vagabond Visionaries"= | ||
{{BeginClaimsTable}} | {{BeginClaimsTable}} | ||
− | |6||"To most of his contemporaries, Joseph Smith was nothing but a charlatan from a family of illiterate wanderers; a shiftless trouble-maker—albeit a charismatic and imaginative one—with a penchant for superstitions, storytelling, and decision-making based on the occult traditions of nineteenth century rural folk magic." | + | | |
+ | ====6==== | ||
+ | ||"To most of his contemporaries, Joseph Smith was nothing but a charlatan from a family of illiterate wanderers; a shiftless trouble-maker—albeit a charismatic and imaginative one—with a penchant for superstitions, storytelling, and decision-making based on the occult traditions of nineteenth century rural folk magic." | ||
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*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Nathaniel Lewis|The Hurlbut affidavits—Nathaniel Lewis]] | *[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Nathaniel Lewis|The Hurlbut affidavits—Nathaniel Lewis]] | ||
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*Nathaniel Lewis cited in Howe, Mormonism Unvailed, 267 | *Nathaniel Lewis cited in Howe, Mormonism Unvailed, 267 | ||
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− | |9-11||"[T]he Smiths finally gave up on finding deliverance from their poverty by any means that might be termed legitimate employment. They turned instead to borrowing, fast-talking, and 'money-digging' through occult divination." | + | | |
+ | ====9-11==== | ||
+ | ||"[T]he Smiths finally gave up on finding deliverance from their poverty by any means that might be termed legitimate employment. They turned instead to borrowing, fast-talking, and 'money-digging' through occult divination." | ||
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*[[The Hurlbut affidavits]] | *[[The Hurlbut affidavits]] | ||
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*Richard L. Anderson, ""Joseph Smith's New York Reputation Reappraised,"" BYU Studies (Spring 1970), vol. 10, 283-314." | *Richard L. Anderson, ""Joseph Smith's New York Reputation Reappraised,"" BYU Studies (Spring 1970), vol. 10, 283-314." | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |15||Local newspapers show no revival occurring in 1820 in the area of Palmyra-Manchester, New York. | + | | |
+ | ====15==== | ||
+ | ||Local newspapers show no revival occurring in 1820 in the area of Palmyra-Manchester, New York. | ||
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*[[Religious revivals in 1820]] | *[[Religious revivals in 1820]] | ||
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*H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, ''Inventing Mormonism'', 15-41. | *H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, ''Inventing Mormonism'', 15-41. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |15||Smith probably incorporated an 1824 revival into his First Vision story. | + | | |
+ | ====15==== | ||
+ | ||Smith probably incorporated an 1824 revival into his First Vision story. | ||
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*[[Conflation of 1824-25 revival?]] | *[[Conflation of 1824-25 revival?]] | ||
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*Marvin S. Hill, "The First Vision Controversy: A Critique and Reconciliation," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' (Summer 1982), vol. 15, 31-46. | *Marvin S. Hill, "The First Vision Controversy: A Critique and Reconciliation," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' (Summer 1982), vol. 15, 31-46. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |15||Joseph's 1832 First Vision account states that he was 15 rather than 14 years old. | + | | |
+ | ====15==== | ||
+ | ||Joseph's 1832 First Vision account states that he was 15 rather than 14 years old. | ||
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*[[Different age provided in the 1832 text]] | *[[Different age provided in the 1832 text]] | ||
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|- | |- | ||
− | |15||Joseph's 1832 account states that he only saw Jesus and doesn't mention God the Father. | + | | |
+ | ====15==== | ||
+ | ||Joseph's 1832 account states that he only saw Jesus and doesn't mention God the Father. | ||
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*[[Only one Personage appears in the 1832 account]] | *[[Only one Personage appears in the 1832 account]] | ||
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|- | |- | ||
− | |15||The main message of the 1832 account was the forgiveness of Joseph's sins. | + | | |
+ | ====15==== | ||
+ | ||The main message of the 1832 account was the forgiveness of Joseph's sins. | ||
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*[[Motivation in 1832 account is different]] | *[[Motivation in 1832 account is different]] | ||
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|- | |- | ||
− | |15||The 1832 account omits information about "God condemning Christian churches as corrupt." | + | | |
+ | ====15==== | ||
+ | ||The 1832 account omits information about "God condemning Christian churches as corrupt." | ||
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*[[1832 account doesn't forbid joining a church]] | *[[1832 account doesn't forbid joining a church]] | ||
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|- | |- | ||
− | |16-17||Orson Pratt said that the two personages were angels. | + | | |
+ | ====16-17==== | ||
+ | ||Orson Pratt said that the two personages were angels. | ||
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*[[Orson Pratt confused about "angel" or Father-Son]] | *[[Orson Pratt confused about "angel" or Father-Son]] | ||
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*Orson Pratt, sermon by Orson Pratt, reprinted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 146-147. | *Orson Pratt, sermon by Orson Pratt, reprinted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 146-147. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |17||Church historian Andrew Jenson said that "The angel again forbade Joseph to join any of these churches." | + | | |
+ | ====17==== | ||
+ | ||Church historian Andrew Jenson said that "The angel again forbade Joseph to join any of these churches." | ||
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*[[Andrew Jenson called personage an "angel"]] | *[[Andrew Jenson called personage an "angel"]] | ||
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*Andrew Jenson, ''Joseph Smith, The Prophet'', Jan. 1888, vol. 3, nos. 1-3, p. 355. | *Andrew Jenson, ''Joseph Smith, The Prophet'', Jan. 1888, vol. 3, nos. 1-3, p. 355. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |18||John Taylor only calls the Father and Son "two glorious personages" and does not mention "this is my beloved son." | + | | |
+ | ====18==== | ||
+ | ||John Taylor only calls the Father and Son "two glorious personages" and does not mention "this is my beloved son." | ||
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*[[John Taylor's understanding of the First Vision]] | *[[John Taylor's understanding of the First Vision]] | ||
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*John Taylor, letter to the Editor of the ''Interpreter Anglais et Francais'', June 25, 1850 cited in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 191. | *John Taylor, letter to the Editor of the ''Interpreter Anglais et Francais'', June 25, 1850 cited in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 191. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |18||The 1824 revival caused Joseph's mother, sister and two brothers to join the Presbyterian church. | + | | |
+ | ====18==== | ||
+ | ||The 1824 revival caused Joseph's mother, sister and two brothers to join the Presbyterian church. | ||
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*[[Conflation of 1824-25 revival?]] | *[[Conflation of 1824-25 revival?]] | ||
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*Wesley Walters, "New Light On Mormon Origins From the Palmyra N.Y. Revival," ''Evangelical Theological Society'' (Fall 1967), vol. 10, no. 4, 227-244; ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'', (Spring 1969), vol. 4, no 1, 60-81. | *Wesley Walters, "New Light On Mormon Origins From the Palmyra N.Y. Revival," ''Evangelical Theological Society'' (Fall 1967), vol. 10, no. 4, 227-244; ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'', (Spring 1969), vol. 4, no 1, 60-81. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |18||The 1824 revival cause Joseph to join a Baptist church. | + | | |
+ | ====18==== | ||
+ | ||The 1824 revival cause Joseph to join a Baptist church. | ||
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*[[Joseph Smith joined other churches]] | *[[Joseph Smith joined other churches]] | ||
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*Fayette Lapham cited in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 1 458. | *Fayette Lapham cited in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 1 458. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |18||No publications from the Palmyra or Manchester areas mentioned Joseph's vision. | + | | |
+ | ====18==== | ||
+ | ||No publications from the Palmyra or Manchester areas mentioned Joseph's vision. | ||
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*[[No reference to First Vision in 1830s publications?]] | *[[No reference to First Vision in 1830s publications?]] | ||
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*Persuitte, p. 21. | *Persuitte, p. 21. | ||
|- | |- | ||
− | |22, 490 n.78||The vision of Moroni was the only vision that existed for many years. Lucy Mack Smith said that the first vision was that of a "holy Angel" | + | | |
+ | ====22, 490 n.78 (HB)==== | ||
+ | ||The vision of Moroni was the only vision that existed for many years. Lucy Mack Smith said that the first vision was that of a "holy Angel" | ||
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*[[Prophet's mother said First Vision was of an "angel"]] | *[[Prophet's mother said First Vision was of an "angel"]] |
Revision as of 09:29, 25 December 2008
Claims made in "Introduction: A Thread of Prophecy" | A FAIR Analysis of: Criticism of Mormonism/Books A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
Claims made in "Chapter 2: Moroni, Magic, and Masonry" |
Claims made in "Chapter 1: Vagabond Visionaries"
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
---|---|---|---|
6 |
"To most of his contemporaries, Joseph Smith was nothing but a charlatan from a family of illiterate wanderers; a shiftless trouble-maker—albeit a charismatic and imaginative one—with a penchant for superstitions, storytelling, and decision-making based on the occult traditions of nineteenth century rural folk magic." |
| |
9-11 |
"[T]he Smiths finally gave up on finding deliverance from their poverty by any means that might be termed legitimate employment. They turned instead to borrowing, fast-talking, and 'money-digging' through occult divination." |
| |
15 |
Local newspapers show no revival occurring in 1820 in the area of Palmyra-Manchester, New York. |
| |
15 |
Smith probably incorporated an 1824 revival into his First Vision story. |
| |
15 |
Joseph's 1832 First Vision account states that he was 15 rather than 14 years old. | ||
15 |
Joseph's 1832 account states that he only saw Jesus and doesn't mention God the Father. | ||
15 |
The main message of the 1832 account was the forgiveness of Joseph's sins. | ||
15 |
The 1832 account omits information about "God condemning Christian churches as corrupt." | ||
16-17 |
Orson Pratt said that the two personages were angels. |
| |
17 |
Church historian Andrew Jenson said that "The angel again forbade Joseph to join any of these churches." |
| |
18 |
John Taylor only calls the Father and Son "two glorious personages" and does not mention "this is my beloved son." |
| |
18 |
The 1824 revival caused Joseph's mother, sister and two brothers to join the Presbyterian church. |
| |
18 |
The 1824 revival cause Joseph to join a Baptist church. |
| |
18 |
No publications from the Palmyra or Manchester areas mentioned Joseph's vision. |
| |
22, 490 n.78 (HB) |
The vision of Moroni was the only vision that existed for many years. Lucy Mack Smith said that the first vision was that of a "holy Angel" |
|
Further reading
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{{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
{{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} | To learn more about responses to: Big Love | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} | To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bill Maher}} | To learn more about responses to: Bill Maher | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bruce H. Porter}} | To learn more about responses to: Bruce H. Porter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Carol Wang Shutter}} | To learn more about responses to: Carol Wang Shutter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: CES Letter}} | To learn more about responses to: CES Letter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Charles Larson}} | To learn more about responses to: Charles Larson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Christopher Nemelka}} | To learn more about responses to: Christopher Nemelka | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Colby Townshed}} | To learn more about responses to: Colby Townshed | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Contender Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Contender Ministries | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Crane and Crane}} | To learn more about responses to: Crane and Crane | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: D. Michael Quinn}} | To learn more about responses to: D. Michael Quinn | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dan Vogel}} | To learn more about responses to: Dan Vogel | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: David John Buerger}} | To learn more about responses to: David John Buerger | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: David Persuitte}} | To learn more about responses to: David Persuitte | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Denver Snuffer}} | To learn more about responses to: Denver Snuffer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dick Bauer}} | To learn more about responses to: Dick Bauer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Duwayne R Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Duwayne R Anderson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Earl Wunderli}} | To learn more about responses to: Earl Wunderli | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ed Decker}} | To learn more about responses to: Ed Decker | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Erikson and Giesler}} | To learn more about responses to: Erikson and Giesler | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ernest Taves}} | To learn more about responses to: Ernest Taves | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Fawn Brodie}} | To learn more about responses to: Fawn Brodie | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: George D Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: George D Smith | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Grant Palmer}} | To learn more about responses to: Grant Palmer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hank Hanegraaff}} | To learn more about responses to: Hank Hanegraaff | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hurlbut-Howe}} | To learn more about responses to: Hurlbut-Howe | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Brooke}} | To learn more about responses to: James Brooke | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Spencer}} | To learn more about responses to: James Spencer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James White}} | To learn more about responses to: James White | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner}} | To learn more about responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD}} | To learn more about responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} | To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jonathan Neville}} | To learn more about responses to: Jonathan Neville | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Kurt Van Gorden}} | To learn more about responses to: Kurt Van Gorden | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery}} | To learn more about responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne}} | To learn more about responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Luke WIlson}} | To learn more about responses to: Luke WIlson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Marquardt and Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Marquardt and Walters | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Martha Beck}} | To learn more about responses to: Martha Beck | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Mcgregor Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Mcgregor Ministries | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: McKeever and Johnson}} | To learn more about responses to: McKeever and Johnson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: New Approaches}} | To learn more about responses to: New Approaches to the Book of Mormon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Abanes}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Abanes | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Van Wagoner}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Van Wagoner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Rick Grunger}} | To learn more about responses to: Rick Grunger | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Ritner}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Ritner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Rod Meldrum}} | To learn more about responses to: Rod Meldrum | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Roger I Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Roger I Anderson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ronald V. Huggins}} | To learn more about responses to: Ronald V. Huggins | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Sally Denton}} | To learn more about responses to: Sally Denton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Simon Southerton}} | To learn more about responses to: Simon Southerton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Thomas Murphy}} | To learn more about responses to: Thomas Murphy | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Todd Compton}} | To learn more about responses to: Todd Compton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Vernal Holley}} | To learn more about responses to: Vernal Holley | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Walter Martin}} | To learn more about responses to: Walter Martin | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Wesley Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Wesley Walters | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Will Bagley}} | To learn more about responses to: Will Bagley | edit |