
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
m (→top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}) |
m (bot use legacy Detail template) |
||
Line 40: | Line 40: | ||
*For a period of time, beginning some time in the early 1850s, blacks of African descent were not ordained to the <i>priesthood</i>. In 1978, a revelation to President Spencer W. Kimball ended the restriction. | *For a period of time, beginning some time in the early 1850s, blacks of African descent were not ordained to the <i>priesthood</i>. In 1978, a revelation to President Spencer W. Kimball ended the restriction. | ||
*The author of the film has obviously confused the priesthood restriction with a restriction on church membership. It is not clear whether this was a purposeful attempt at deception or just a case of very sloppy fact-checking. | *The author of the film has obviously confused the priesthood restriction with a restriction on church membership. It is not clear whether this was a purposeful attempt at deception or just a case of very sloppy fact-checking. | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 87: | Line 87: | ||
**Latter-day Saints believe that marriage must be performed on earth, ''not'' after "becoming a god." | **Latter-day Saints believe that marriage must be performed on earth, ''not'' after "becoming a god." | ||
**Latter-day Saints believe that men ''and'' women will be resurrected. It therefore makes no sense to assume that God "began marrying spirit wives." | **Latter-day Saints believe that men ''and'' women will be resurrected. It therefore makes no sense to assume that God "began marrying spirit wives." | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Nature of God/"God is a man"}} |
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Nature of God/Heavenly Mother}} |
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Nature of God/Deification of man}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 100: | Line 100: | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{propaganda|This is a common, misleading caricature of LDS beliefs. | {{propaganda|This is a common, misleading caricature of LDS beliefs. | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Nature of God/Deification of man/Gods of their own planets}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 159: | Line 159: | ||
*The individual wards and stakes did ask for a report of funds that had been donated by members to ProtectMarriage.com. It can be assumed that this information was sent to the Church. It is not known whether or not the Church "checked off" to make sure that members donated per their commitment. | *The individual wards and stakes did ask for a report of funds that had been donated by members to ProtectMarriage.com. It can be assumed that this information was sent to the Church. It is not known whether or not the Church "checked off" to make sure that members donated per their commitment. | ||
*We are not aware of any actions or repercussions suffered if it was determined that a member did ''not'' donate what they said they would. | *We are not aware of any actions or repercussions suffered if it was determined that a member did ''not'' donate what they said they would. | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and politics/California Proposition 8#Where did the money come from?|l1=Where did the money come from?}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 170: | Line 170: | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{propaganda|The advertising messages created for the "Yes on 8" campaign were based on case law and real-life situations. However, a rebuttal to an anonymously written "Yes on 8" document called "“Six Consequences . . . if Proposition 8 Fails” was written by LDS lawyer Morris Thurston.<ref>Morris Thurston, [http://www.hrc.org/documents/Responses_to_Six_Consequences_if_Prop_8_Fails.pdf A Commentary on the Document “Six Consequences . . . if Proposition 8 Fails”]</ref> This document was used by "No on 8" supporters to show that even LDS realized that lies were being promoted. Thurston's points were contested by another LDS attorney, Blake Ostler.<ref>Blake Ostler, [http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/10/prop-8-comment-they-would-not-print/569/ Prop 8 comment (that is now a Prop 8 post)] (Oct. 20, 2008)</ref> Upon discovering that the "No on 8" campaign was making use of his comments, Thurston issued a press release which pointed out that "A press release dated October 19 from a public relations firm representing 'No on 8' is inaccurate and misleading," and that he was "erroneously cited as having 'debunked' new California Prop 8 ads." | {{propaganda|The advertising messages created for the "Yes on 8" campaign were based on case law and real-life situations. However, a rebuttal to an anonymously written "Yes on 8" document called "“Six Consequences . . . if Proposition 8 Fails” was written by LDS lawyer Morris Thurston.<ref>Morris Thurston, [http://www.hrc.org/documents/Responses_to_Six_Consequences_if_Prop_8_Fails.pdf A Commentary on the Document “Six Consequences . . . if Proposition 8 Fails”]</ref> This document was used by "No on 8" supporters to show that even LDS realized that lies were being promoted. Thurston's points were contested by another LDS attorney, Blake Ostler.<ref>Blake Ostler, [http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/10/prop-8-comment-they-would-not-print/569/ Prop 8 comment (that is now a Prop 8 post)] (Oct. 20, 2008)</ref> Upon discovering that the "No on 8" campaign was making use of his comments, Thurston issued a press release which pointed out that "A press release dated October 19 from a public relations firm representing 'No on 8' is inaccurate and misleading," and that he was "erroneously cited as having 'debunked' new California Prop 8 ads." | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and politics/California Proposition 8#The ads|l1=California Proposition 8: The ads}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 181: | Line 181: | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{disinformation|African-Americans have been able to attend the temple since 1978. This has not changed. The statement made implies that the Church continues to ban them from the temple. | {{disinformation|African-Americans have been able to attend the temple since 1978. This has not changed. The statement made implies that the Church continues to ban them from the temple. | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 221: | Line 221: | ||
</tr> | </tr> | ||
</table> | </table> | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Church involvement in politics/Latter-day Saints and California Proposition 8#Where did the money come from?|l1=Where did the Prop 8 money come from?}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 247: | Line 247: | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
*Simply being homosexual is not considered unclean. Sexual relationships outside that of a husband and a wife would be considered unclean. | *Simply being homosexual is not considered unclean. Sexual relationships outside that of a husband and a wife would be considered unclean. | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 258: | Line 258: | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{propaganda}} | {{propaganda}} | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Statistical claims/Suicide rate among Mormons}} |
====00:55:42==== | ====00:55:42==== | ||
Line 280: | Line 280: | ||
* Bruce described a very harsh use of profanity by the people administering the therapy. This level of profanity on a client would be difficult to find at any university, much less BYU. For those familiar with BYU, a foul-mouthed administrator seems almost humorous. | * Bruce described a very harsh use of profanity by the people administering the therapy. This level of profanity on a client would be difficult to find at any university, much less BYU. For those familiar with BYU, a foul-mouthed administrator seems almost humorous. | ||
* The clients set their own level of shock. It was not forced upon them. | * The clients set their own level of shock. It was not forced upon them. | ||
− | {{ | + | {{Detail_old|Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction/Aversion therapy}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 295: | Line 295: | ||
*There is no evidence to support a "suicide epidemic" as a result of the practice of aversion therapy at BYU. | *There is no evidence to support a "suicide epidemic" as a result of the practice of aversion therapy at BYU. | ||
*There is no way to tell what caused the suicides that happened. Suicide rates of people involved in same-sex relationships are higher even in places that embrace such relationships. | *There is no way to tell what caused the suicides that happened. Suicide rates of people involved in same-sex relationships are higher even in places that embrace such relationships. | ||
− | {{ | + | {{Detail_old|Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction/Aversion therapy}} |
}} | }} | ||
Line 354: | Line 354: | ||
}} | }} | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction/Family members}} |
==== ==== | ==== ==== | ||
Line 370: | Line 370: | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{propaganda|Many people with same-sex attractions chose not to participate in same-sex relationships, and many are faithful members of the Church. This view was severely lacking from the film. | {{propaganda|Many people with same-sex attractions chose not to participate in same-sex relationships, and many are faithful members of the Church. This view was severely lacking from the film. | ||
− | *{{ | + | *{{Detail_old|Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction/Temptations versus acts#What does science have to say about this.3F|l1=Same-sex attraction-Temptations versus acts: What does science have to say about this?}} |
}} | }} | ||
{{endnotes sources}} | {{endnotes sources}} |
Summary: A June 2010 documentary called "8: The Mormon Proposition," written and produced by Reed Cowan, claims to be an expose of the role that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints played in the passage of California Proposition 8. Reviews of the film generally agreed that it was a polemical treatment of the issue, pitting the Church as villain in a quest to limit or remove the rights of same-sex couples. FAIR reviews some of the individual claims made in the documentary.
This article examines and responds to specific claims made in the documentary "8: The Mormon Proposition." The film uses quotes that don't exist, misrepresent facts, and perpetuates false and degrading stereotypes about Mormons with same-sex attractions.
The trailer states that ""Mormons believe that their prophet literally is in communication with God" following which a soundbite from President Monson is played in which he says "There will be nothing that can defeat us."
"I testify to you that our promised blessings are beyond measure. Though the storm clouds may gather, though the rains may pour down upon us, our knowledge of the gospel and our love of our Heavenly Father and of our Savior will comfort and sustain us and bring joy to our hearts as we walk uprightly and keep the commandments. There will be nothing in this world that can defeat us." (Thomas S. Monson, April 2009, "Be of Good Cheer")
The talk, entitled "Be of Good Cheer", is about how life can be difficult but through faith one can find both peace in this life and eternal salvation through God. The talk has absolutely nothing to do with same-sex marriage or Proposition 8.
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
The file states "There was a meeting held by Church President Gordon Hinckley at his estate in Hawaii where one of the Catholic cardinals came out."Author's sources:
- No source provided
A woman who is claimed to be a "former Mormon," states that "Mormons believe that their prophet literally is in communication with God, that Jesus Christ appears to their leaders in the Salt Lake Temple."Author's sources:
- No source provided
Jesus Christ may have appeared to church leaders in the temple. If so, it was a holy experience that is not talked about often. Certainly, no LDS leader has ever claimed that Jesus Christ regularly appears to them in the temple. That part of the claim is simply false.
A woman who is claimed to be a "former Mormon" states that in the temple "we promise to give of our means and our time to defend the Church and to forward its mission, and we're told that we will lose our eternal salvation if we don't keep that promise."Author's sources:
- No source provided
The narrator claims that Mormons teach that Heavenly Father was "once a human being," and that after he died, that he "became a god where he began marrying spirit wives and having spirit offspring."Author's sources:
- No source specified. This portion of the documentary appears to draw ideas from the notorious anti-Mormon film The God Makers: Specifically, the idea that the primary goal of women in the church is to "become a goddess in heaven" in order to "multiply an earth" and be "eternally pregnant."
The narrator states that "Mormons believe we, too, can become gods on our own planets, filled with our own spirit wives and children."Author's sources:
- No source provided. This portion of the film appears to draw from the notorious anti-Mormon film The God Makers: Specifically, the idea that all Mormon men want to become gods and rule over their own planets.
The film claims that "when a gay child enters the picture, who can't have children biologically and doesn't want to marry someone of the opposite sex, it not only upsets the Mormon definition of the family, but disturbs the entire Mormon concept of the afterlife."Author's sources:
- No source provided
It is claimed that some Church leaders (bishops and stake presidents) brought members' tithing records to their homes and told them, ""This is how much you make. This is how much we think you can give. Give this much money, give this much time or you face disfellowshipment. You might lose your callings. You might lose your membership."Author's sources:
- No source provided.
It is claimed that families "dug into their retirement funds" and "used their kids' college funds" to support Prop 8. One example is given of a family in Sacramento that "gave $50,000" by closing out their college fund for their "five small children, all under the age of nine."Author's sources:
- No source provided
The Church is claimed to have "set up a specific post-office box for all the Mormon money to go to" in order to "bundle all the contributions together so they could actually check off to make sure that everyone had given what he committed to give."Author's sources:
- No source provided
It is claimed that LDS advertisements were "designed to mislead and misinform" and that they were "designed to recruit people of other faiths."Author's sources:
- No source provided
In demonstrating that "religions can set their own rules," the film states that "the LDS church can still ban African-Americans from their temples."Author's sources:
- No source provided
It is claimed that during the last week of the Prop 8 campaign, that "over $3 million came in from Utah alone to influence this California election."Author's sources:
- No source provided
A group of noisy and rude anti-Prop 8 protesters are shown in San Francisco. One man states that they were bussed in, and that "I heard there's people from Utah."
Bruce R. McConkie "made a statement several years ago to the youth of the Church that it would be better to be dead than to be homosexual."Author's sources:
- No source provided
"Better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is the faithful Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction, 'I would rather have you come back home in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it' "
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Second Edition, Page 124.
Utah is claimed to have "one of the highest suicide rates in the world." It is stated that a "disproportionately large number" of these are gay Latter-day Saints.Author's sources:
- No source provided
It is claimed that are taught by their church leaders that they are not gay, just tempted, and that they can be "fixed."
Bruce claims to have undergone aversion therapy at BYU. He claims he was forced to undergo treatment, given vomit-inducing drugs, underwent treatment naked, swore at him, put electrodes on his genitals, and administer shocks.
For a detailed response, see: Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction/Aversion therapy
The narrator claims that a program of aversion therapy led to a "suicide epidemic" on the BYU campus. Bruce Barton states that out of a list of 12 people who participated in aversion therapy, that two of the men "disappeared" and "several others committed suicide."
For a detailed response, see: Mormonism and gender issues/Same-sex attraction/Aversion therapy
The following quote by George Q. Cannon is displayed:"How will these be stopped? Only by the destruction of those who practice them. The only way is...for the Lord to wipe them out."
George Q. Cannon, Mormon ApostleAuthor's sources:
- Source not provided in the video.
In England a short time ago a man who had posed in society as a man of culture and of taste, and who lectured upon esthetics, was found to be guilty of a most abominable crime a crime for which under the old law the penalty was death; a crime which was practiced by the nations of old, and caused God to command their destruction and extirpation. This crime was proved against this man, and some of his associates were what are called noblemen. He was sent to prison. His term of imprisonment having expired, he comes from prison, and is now engaged, it is so published, in writing a book, and, we suppose is received into society, though guilty of this nameless crime. And is this common; If we may believe that which is told to us, without going into researches ourselves, it and other kindred wickedness, is far too common. The same sin that caused the utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah! This and other abominable crimes are being practiced. How will these be stopped? Only by the destruction of those who practice them. Why, if a little nest of them were left that were guilty of these things, they would soon corrupt others, as some are being corrupted among us. In coming to these mountains we hoped to find a place where we could live secluded from the abominations of Babylon. But here in this secluded place wickedness intrudes itself, and is practiced in this land which we have dedicated to the Lord as a land of Zion! How can this be stopped? Not while those who have knowledge of these filthy crimes exist. The only way, according to all that I can understand as the word of God, is for the Lord to wipe them out, that there will be none left to perpetuate the knowledge of these dreadful practices among the children of men. And God will do it, as sure as He has spoken by the mouths of His prophets. He will destroy the wicked, and those who will be left will be like the Nephites after the wicked were all killed off; they were righteous men and women who lived for over two hundred years according to the law of heaven.
The following quote was attributed to President Hinckley "Gays have a problem."
There is the sound of a girl who wants two mommies. The implication was that Prop 8 was trying to break up families.
There are many stories about people being rejected by their families. The implication is that the Church causes families to reject their gay children.
"If a person with homosexual problems chooses not to change, family members may have difficulty maintaining feelings of love and acceptance toward the person. Encourage them to continue loving the person and hoping that he or she may repent."
This was reiterated by Elder Oaks in 1997:
"Surely if we are counseled as a body of Church membership to reach out with love and understanding to those ‘struggling with these issues,’ that obligation rests with particular intensity on parents who have children struggling with these issues... even children who are engaged in sinful behavior associated with these issues"
Families with members with same-sex attractions, including those in same-sex relationships, are strengthened through living the principles of love and respect taught by Jesus Christ and reiterated in the Proclamation to the World on the Family. The sister of a woman (Leigh) who is involved in a sexual relationship with another woman wrote an "Ensign" article in which she describes how the Church has helped her with her relationship with her sister:
"I know the best thing I can do to have a close relationship with my sister is to have a close relationship with Heavenly Father and His Son. Leigh recently commented that it has been through the way our family has loved her that she has felt what she understood to be God’s love."
Sutherland Institute and Utah legislature are used throughout the move to represent the Church's view on gay rights.
Throughout the movie, there is a recurring theme that people do not chose to be gay and that same-sex relationships is part of being gay.
Notes
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
We are a volunteer organization. We invite you to give back.
Donate Now