FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Robert Ritner"
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|title=Mormon Stories #1339: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1 | |title=Mormon Stories #1339: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1 | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Ep. 1: 92:37-95:05 - The Church's own Book of Abraham essay says none of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham's name or any of the events recorded in the Book of Abraham. Mormon and Non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the Book of Abraham. |
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| − | + | {{information|The Church's essay indeed does say that. Little is known with certitude about the exact relationship between the papyri from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Abraham and the translated text canonized in the Pearl of Great Price today. Three theories have emerged to try and explain this relationship. To become acquainted with these theories, we recommend the reader see [https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/the-relationship-between-the-book-of-abraham-and-the-joseph-smith-papyri/ this essay] by Pearl of Great Price Central on the topic. | |
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|title=Mormon Stories #1340: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 2 | |title=Mormon Stories #1340: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 2 | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim= Ep. 2: 5:20-6:16 - If there were post-biblical traditions of Abraham, you would expect to find a reflex of that in the continuing cultures in the Near East. They haven't forgotten everything. And the Abraham story is not only alive and kicking, it's predominant, it is more important than Moses in the current world of Egypt. And yet there is not one trace, not a scintilla, not any reflection of the Book of Abraham tradition, whereas the biblical tradition is extremely predominant. So one has to wonder, if there were a second story, why is it that it is not enshrined in living testimony when Abrahamic lore is so strong? |
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| + | {{disinformation|There is extra-biblical lore that supports many elements unique to the Book of Abraham. This is made clear by following the links to the two articles below}} | ||
| + | {{:Book of Abraham/Plagiarism accusations/Genesis}} | ||
==Claims about the Translation Process== | ==Claims about the Translation Process== | ||
Revision as of 21:28, 26 May 2021
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 A review of claims made in Dr. Robert Ritner's three-episode interview with John Dehlin
- 2 Claims about the Book of Abraham Generally
- 3 Antiquity of the Book of Abraham
- 3.1 The author(s) of Mormon Stories #1339: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1 make(s) the following claim:
- 3.2 FAIR's Response
- 3.3 The author(s) of Mormon Stories #1340: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 2 make(s) the following claim:
- 3.4 FAIR's Response
- 4 Did Joseph Smith plagiarize Genesis?
- 5 Claims about the Translation Process
- 5.2 FAIR's Response
- 5.3 The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
A review of claims made in Dr. Robert Ritner's three-episode interview with John Dehlin
Summary: On July 31, 2020, critic John Dehlin was joined by Dr. Robert Ritner, an egyptologist at the University of Chicago and long-time critic of the Book of Abraham, to discuss the Book of Abraham and its authenticity. Dehlin and Dr. Ritner spent over twelve hours discussing different aspects of the Book of Abraham. This page was created as an index to all the major arguments made and to provide responses to claims that FAIR already had written material for. More responses will be forthcoming. Ritner spends most of his time criticizing the Book of Abraham generally but attempts character assassinations on Dr. John Gee of BYU and Michael Rhodes—former professor at BYU—and their scholarship on the Book of Abraham. This response will focus specifically on claims made about the Book of Abraham.
Thus we are reviewing the claims made in the following three episodes of Mormon Stories podcast:
- Mormon Stories #1339: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1
- Mormon Stories #1340: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 2
- Mormon Stories #1341: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 3
Claims about the Book of Abraham Generally
The author(s) of Mormon Stories #1339: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1 make(s) the following claim:
Ep. 1: 92:16-92:25 - These fragments date between the third century BCE and the first century BCE long after Abraham lived.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
The surviving fragments of the papyri in Joseph Smith's possession and from which he may have translated the Book of Abraham date to anywhere between the third century BCE and the first century AD. But this does not have to deter us from believing that Abraham could have played a role in the authorship of the Book of Abraham.Antiquity of the Book of Abraham
Jump to details:
The author(s) of Mormon Stories #1339: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1 make(s) the following claim:
Ep. 1: 92:37-95:05 - The Church's own Book of Abraham essay says none of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham's name or any of the events recorded in the Book of Abraham. Mormon and Non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the Book of Abraham.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
The Church's essay indeed does say that. Little is known with certitude about the exact relationship between the papyri from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Abraham and the translated text canonized in the Pearl of Great Price today. Three theories have emerged to try and explain this relationship. To become acquainted with these theories, we recommend the reader see this essay by Pearl of Great Price Central on the topic.
The author(s) of Mormon Stories #1340: Dr. Robert Ritner - An Expert Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 2 make(s) the following claim:
Ep. 2: 5:20-6:16 - If there were post-biblical traditions of Abraham, you would expect to find a reflex of that in the continuing cultures in the Near East. They haven't forgotten everything. And the Abraham story is not only alive and kicking, it's predominant, it is more important than Moses in the current world of Egypt. And yet there is not one trace, not a scintilla, not any reflection of the Book of Abraham tradition, whereas the biblical tradition is extremely predominant. So one has to wonder, if there were a second story, why is it that it is not enshrined in living testimony when Abrahamic lore is so strong?
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
There is extra-biblical lore that supports many elements unique to the Book of Abraham. This is made clear by following the links to the two articles below
Did Joseph Smith plagiarize Genesis?
Summary: Some have questioned if Joseph plagiarized the creation account in Genesis as well as the narrative about Abraham in the Book of Genesis in his translation of the Book of Abraham. We address these questions on this page.
Jump to details:
- Question: What are the differences between Genesis 11-12 and Abraham 2?
- Question: What are the differences between the Genesis account of creation and that of the Book of Abraham?
- Question: Should “the plains” of Moreh in the Book of Abraham actually be “the oak” of Moreh?
Claims about the Translation Process
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
Claims about the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
Claims about Chapter 1 of the Book of Abraham
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
Claims about Facsimile 1 Generally
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
Claims about Specific Figures in Facsimile 1
Claims about Facsimile 2 Generally
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of 8: The Mormon Proposition make(s) the following claim:
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."Author's sources:
- No source provided