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Difference between revisions of "Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision"
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*[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."|Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."]] | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."|Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."]] | ||
*[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."|Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."]] | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."|Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."]] | ||
| − | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the | + | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the 'official' event supposedly happened?"|Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the 'official' event supposedly happened?"]] |
*[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"|Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"]] | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"|Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"]] | ||
*[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"|Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"]] | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"|Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"]] | ||
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*[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"|Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"]] | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"|Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"]] | ||
*[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"|Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"]] | *[[Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/First Vision#Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"|Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"]] | ||
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==Response to claim: "Why do the accounts differ with respect to who was in the vision?"== | ==Response to claim: "Why do the accounts differ with respect to who was in the vision?"== | ||
Revision as of 20:45, 14 October 2016
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Contents
- 1 Response to "Difficult Questions for Mormons: First Vision"
- 1.1 Quick Navigation
- 1.2 Response to claim: "Why do the accounts differ with respect to who was in the vision?"
- 1.3 Response to claim: "Why doesn't Jesus show up (separate from God) until after the God doctrine had evolved into a plurality of Gods? (i.e., after 1835)"
- 1.4 Response to claim: "Why don't the early "prophets" even know the story accurately?"
- 1.5 Response to claim: "'How did it (the organization) come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven..."
- 1.6 Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."
- 1.7 Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."
- 1.8 Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the 'official' event supposedly happened?"
- 1.9 Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"
- 1.10 Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"
- 1.11 Response to claim: "Why does Lucy Smith (his mother) indicate that the revival occurred around 1824?"
- 1.12 Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"
- 1.13 Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"
Response to "Difficult Questions for Mormons: First Vision"
| Treasure Hunting and Magic | A FAIR Analysis of: Difficult Questions for Mormons A work by author: The Interactive Bible
|
- Response to claim: "Why do the accounts differ with respect to who was in the vision?"
- Response to claim: "Why doesn't Jesus show up (separate from God) until after the God doctrine had evolved into a plurality of Gods? (i.e., after 1835)"
- Response to claim: "Why don't the early "prophets" even know the story accurately?"
- Response to claim: "'How did it (the organization) come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven..."
- Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."
- Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."
- Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the 'official' event supposedly happened?"
- Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"
- Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"
- Response to claim: "Why does Lucy Smith (his mother) indicate that the revival occurred around 1824?"
- Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"
- Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"
Response to claim: "Why do the accounts differ with respect to who was in the vision?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why do the accounts differ with respect to who was in the vision?"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why doesn't Jesus show up (separate from God) until after the God doctrine had evolved into a plurality of Gods? (i.e., after 1835)"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why doesn't Jesus show up (separate from God) until after the God doctrine had evolved into a plurality of Gods? (i.e., after 1835)"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why don't the early "prophets" even know the story accurately?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why don't the early "prophets" even know the story accurately? "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven...But he did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun...and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong" (B. Young - JOD Volume 2 p.171 1855)."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "'How did it (the organization) come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven..."
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "'How did it (the organization) come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven, who held converse with man, and revealed unto him the darkness that enveloped the world...He told him the Gospel was not among men, and that there was not a true organization of His kingdom in the world.' (Wilford Woodruff - JOD Volume 11 p.196 1855)."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith..."
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "'How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith and manifested unto him in a vision the true position of the world in a religious point of view. He was surrounded with light and glory while the heavenly messenger communicated these things to him.' (John Taylor - JOD Volume 10 p.127 1863)."
FAIR's Response
- REDIRECTEvents after the First Vision
Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right..."
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "'When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong.' (George A. Smith - JOD Volume 12 p.334 1863)."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the 'official' event supposedly happened?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why doesn't any published source mention the 'official' first vision account until 1842--22 years after the 'official' event supposedly happened?"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why doesn't the 1st vision play an important role in Mormon history until the 1860s? No one seems to mention it before then even though it is now deemed by Mormons to be the most important event in almost 2,000 years."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why isn't there evidence to support the revival described by Joseph Smith in early 1820--yet there is evidence to support revivals several years later? Joseph Smith's neighborhood experienced no revival in 1820 such as he described, in which great multitudes joined the Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches. According to early sources, including church conference reports, newspapers, church periodicals, presbytery records and published interviews, nothing occurred in 1820-21 that fits Joseph's description. There were no significant gains in church membership in the Palmyra-Manchester, New York area, during 1820-21 such as accompany great revivals. For example, in 1820, the Baptist Church in Palmyra only received 8 people through profession of faith and baptism, the Presbyterian church added 14 members, while the Methodist circuit lost 6 members, dropping from 677 in 1819 to 671 in 1820 and down to 622 in 1821 (see Geneva area Presbyterian Church Records, Presbyterian Historical Society, Philadelphia, PA; Records for the First Baptist Church in Palmyra, American Baptist Historical Society, Rochester, NY; Minutes of the [Methodist] annual Conference, Ontario Circuit, 1818-1821, pp. 312, 330, 346, 366)."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why does Lucy Smith (his mother) indicate that the revival occurred around 1824?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why does Lucy Smith (his mother) indicate that the revival occurred around 1824? Her son, Alvin died on November 19, 1823, and following that painful loss Lucy Smith reports that, "about this time there was a great revival in religion and the whole neighborhood was very much aroused to the subject and we among the rest, flocked to the meeting house to see if there was a word of comfort for us that might relieve our over-charged feelings" (First draft of Lucy Smith's History, p. 55, LDS Church Archives). Church records from that time period show outstanding increases in membership due to the reception of new converts. The Baptist Church received 94, the Presbyterian 99, while the Methodist work grew by 208. "You will recollect that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our Brother J. Smith Jr's, age that was an error in the type- it should have been the 17th...This would bring the date down to the year 1823." (Oliver Cowdrey - Times & Seasons Vol. 2, p. 241 1840). For further details see, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1969, pp. 59-100."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why does his first autobiography not even mention the "first vision"?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why does Joseph Smith have Lehi make such a statement as 1 Nephi 8:2? Is he equating a dream to an actual, physical vision or visitation from God?"
FAIR's Response
Notes