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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph Running with the Plates"
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|claim=Critics of the church often use the weight of the plates as evidence that the Book of Mormon story is not true. They go through complex calculations to show how gold plates with the dimensions described by the witnesses must have weighed some 200 pounds.....Also pure gold would be too malleable to be useful for permanent engraving.....In this instance we disagree with the critics' premise. We don't feel that the plates had to be made of solid gold. Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold. | |claim=Critics of the church often use the weight of the plates as evidence that the Book of Mormon story is not true. They go through complex calculations to show how gold plates with the dimensions described by the witnesses must have weighed some 200 pounds.....Also pure gold would be too malleable to be useful for permanent engraving.....In this instance we disagree with the critics' premise. We don't feel that the plates had to be made of solid gold. Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold. | ||
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=="It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men"== | =="It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men"== | ||
Revision as of 08:07, 30 October 2014
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 Response to MormonThink page "Running with Gold Plates"
- 1.1 Quick Navigation
- 1.2 "Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold"
- 1.3 MormonThink states... "Critics of the church often use the weight of the plates as evidence that the Book of Mormon story is not true. They go through complex calculations to show how gold plates with the dimensions described by the witnesses must have weighed some 200 pounds.....Also pure gold would be too malleable to be useful for permanent engraving.....In this instance we disagree with the critics' premise. We don't feel that the plates had to be made of solid gold. Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold."
- 1.4 FairMormon Response
- 1.5 Question: How much did the gold plates weigh?
- 1.6 "It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men"
- 1.7 MormonThink states... "How could any man, especially a man who had a slight limp run with a 50 pound weight and avoid capture by three assailants? The journey through the woods was about 3 miles as Joseph indicated above. It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men for some 1 to 2 miles that were bent on taking the plates from Joseph. And all this from a young man that had a slight limp and would have difficulty running at a high speed for a long distance - especially carrying a 50 lb. weight..... If the story is but a 'tall tale', regardless of its origins, it should not be taught in church as a true, historical account, as we have been taught growing up in the church, just to provide another faith-promoting event. Otherwise, it causes credibility problems for the church by casting doubt as well on other more fundamental church narratives that are essential to the church's claims to being restored through Joseph Smith."
- 1.8 FairMormon Response
- 1.9
Response to MormonThink page "Running with Gold Plates"
| Tithing | A FAIR Analysis of: MormonThink A work by author: Anonymous
|
Joseph's Translation of the Bible |
- "Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold"
- "It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men"
"Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold"
MormonThink states...
"Critics of the church often use the weight of the plates as evidence that the Book of Mormon story is not true. They go through complex calculations to show how gold plates with the dimensions described by the witnesses must have weighed some 200 pounds.....Also pure gold would be too malleable to be useful for permanent engraving.....In this instance we disagree with the critics' premise. We don't feel that the plates had to be made of solid gold. Although the plates are often referred to as 'gold plates' they didn't necessary have to be made of pure gold."
FairMormon Response
Question: How much did the gold plates weigh?
The plates weighed approximately sixty pounds
Witnesses of the Book of Mormon were consistent in their witness that the plates weighed 40-60 pounds.
Some critics assume that the "golden plates" are pure gold, or that they are a solid block of gold. Neither conclusion is warranted.
- Pure gold plates would be too soft to hold engraving well. An alloy of gold and copper called "tumbaga," known in Mesoamerica, would suit both the appearance and weight of the plates.[1]
- The plates were not a solid block of gold, but a set of page-like leaves, which reduces the weight by about 50%.
- "weighing altogether from forty to sixty lbs."[2] —Martin Harris
Witness statements regarding the weight of the gold plates
- "I was permitted to lift them. . . . They weighed about sixty pounds according to the best of my judgement."[3] —William Smith
- "I . . . judged them to have weighed about sixty pounds."[4]—William Smith
- "They were much heavier than a stone, and very much heavier than wood. . . . As near as I could tell, about sixty pounds."[5] —William Smith
- "I hefted the plates, and I knew from the heft that they were lead or gold."[6] —Martin Harris
- "My daughter said, they were about as much as she could lift. They were now in the glass-box, and my wife said they were very heavy. They both lifted them."[7] —Martin Harris
- "I moved them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work."[8] —Emma Smith
- Joseph's sister Catherine, while she was dusting in the room where he had been translating, "hefted those plates [which were covered with a cloth] and found them very heavy."[9] —H. S. Salisbury, paraphrasing Catherine Smith Salisbury
"It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men"
MormonThink states...
"How could any man, especially a man who had a slight limp run with a 50 pound weight and avoid capture by three assailants? The journey through the woods was about 3 miles as Joseph indicated above. It's inconceivable that anybody could run carrying a 50 lb. set of metal plates, jumping over logs and such and be able to outrun three men for some 1 to 2 miles that were bent on taking the plates from Joseph. And all this from a young man that had a slight limp and would have difficulty running at a high speed for a long distance - especially carrying a 50 lb. weight.
....
If the story is but a 'tall tale', regardless of its origins, it should not be taught in church as a true, historical account, as we have been taught growing up in the church, just to provide another faith-promoting event. Otherwise, it causes credibility problems for the church by casting doubt as well on other more fundamental church narratives that are essential to the church's claims to being restored through Joseph Smith."
....
If the story is but a 'tall tale', regardless of its origins, it should not be taught in church as a true, historical account, as we have been taught growing up in the church, just to provide another faith-promoting event. Otherwise, it causes credibility problems for the church by casting doubt as well on other more fundamental church narratives that are essential to the church's claims to being restored through Joseph Smith."
FairMormon Response
Notes
- ↑ See Roy W. Doxey, "I Have A Question: What was the approximate weight of the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated?," Ensign (December 1986): 64.
- ↑ Martin Harris interview, Iowa State Register, August 1870, as quoted in Milton V. Backman Jr., Eyewitness Accounts of the Restoration (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1986), 226.
- ↑ William Smith, William Smith on Mormonism (Lamoni, Iowa: Herald Steam, 1883), 12.
- ↑ William Smith interview with E. C. Briggs. Originally written by J. W. Peterson for Zions Ensign (Independence, Mo.); reprinted in Deseret Evening News, 20 January 1894, 11.
- ↑ William Smith interview, The Saints' Herald, 4 October 1884, 644.
- ↑ "Interview with Martin Harris," Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 169.
- ↑ "Interview with Martin Harris," Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 168.
- ↑ Emma Smith interview, published as "Last Testimony of Sister Emma," The Saints' Herald, 1 October 1879.
- ↑ I. B. Bell interview with H. S. Salisbury (grandson of Catherine Smith Salisbury), Historical Department Archives, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.