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:There is so much that needs to happen in these last days that our time must be spent anxiously engaged in things that matter. There's just no time to waste on trivial matters. Hopefully, the upcoming talks will allow you to see what the Lord would like done, and provide a framework and understanding for you to do something about it.<ref>Denver Snuffer, “Current Events,” from the desk of Denver Snuffer (blog), 26 August 2013, {{antilink|http://denversnuffer.blogspot.ca/2013/08/current-events.html}}</ref> | :There is so much that needs to happen in these last days that our time must be spent anxiously engaged in things that matter. There's just no time to waste on trivial matters. Hopefully, the upcoming talks will allow you to see what the Lord would like done, and provide a framework and understanding for you to do something about it.<ref>Denver Snuffer, “Current Events,” from the desk of Denver Snuffer (blog), 26 August 2013, {{antilink|http://denversnuffer.blogspot.ca/2013/08/current-events.html}}</ref> | ||
− | {{Snuffer/ | + | {{Snuffer/SelfContradiction|Despite telling his audience they should not rely on others for knowing "how to please God," Snuffer says he will tell them what God wants, and gives them "a framework." His talks give them a laundry list of things that they "must" do or not do (emphasis added in all cases):}} |
* All that was needed to obtain the power to baptize was (and is) for Christ to tell you.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|13}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsJoseph|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims/Priesthood_authority_not_necessary#.22it_does_not_matter_whether_there_is_an_officiator_with_authority_from_God_on_the_earth_or_not.22|here]]}} | * All that was needed to obtain the power to baptize was (and is) for Christ to tell you.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|13}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsJoseph|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims/Priesthood_authority_not_necessary#.22it_does_not_matter_whether_there_is_an_officiator_with_authority_from_God_on_the_earth_or_not.22|here]]}} | ||
* If you are going to use the priesthood to perform a baptism, no matter what the Church has told you, no matter what quorum leaders and respected others, including your own father perhaps, have taught you, before you do so, ask God to give you the authority. Get the “word” from Christ through the Spirit, just as Alma did. His example is in the scriptures to teach us the way. We have lost it, and '''need''' to reclaim it. If you get power to baptize, you get it from Him and you are not dependent on someone else. But get the power from Him. Power is required. It must come from Christ. The pattern '''must be followed'''.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|14}} | * If you are going to use the priesthood to perform a baptism, no matter what the Church has told you, no matter what quorum leaders and respected others, including your own father perhaps, have taught you, before you do so, ask God to give you the authority. Get the “word” from Christ through the Spirit, just as Alma did. His example is in the scriptures to teach us the way. We have lost it, and '''need''' to reclaim it. If you get power to baptize, you get it from Him and you are not dependent on someone else. But get the power from Him. Power is required. It must come from Christ. The pattern '''must be followed'''.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|14}} | ||
− | * When you ordain someone to serve in these fellowships you '''should ordain no one''' to an office, only confer the priesthood. Have no offices. Let everyone be equal. Be without ranks.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|14}} | + | * When you ordain someone to serve in these fellowships you '''should ordain no one''' to an office, only confer the priesthood. Have no offices. Let everyone be equal. Be without ranks.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|14}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsJoseph|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims/Authority_lost_by_the_Church|here]].}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsDC|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims/Authority_lost_by_the_Church|here]].}} |
* Does this mean you have to leave the Church? Of course not. This is to add to anything that you already have. There is no reason you can't be part of this fellowship and be part of the Lutheran Church, Catholic Church or part of an LDS community. I wouldn't leave until they throw you out, but they will probably throw you out. They shouldn’t, but probably will. I would not leave the LDS Church if you find value in service there.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|18}} | * Does this mean you have to leave the Church? Of course not. This is to add to anything that you already have. There is no reason you can't be part of this fellowship and be part of the Lutheran Church, Catholic Church or part of an LDS community. I wouldn't leave until they throw you out, but they will probably throw you out. They shouldn’t, but probably will. I would not leave the LDS Church if you find value in service there.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|18}} | ||
− | * What about ordinations that occurred before April 2014? As I said previously, '''I would respect them''' and keep them in place. God did not do anything until April of this year, and then only with the LDS Church leadership.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|19}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsJoseph|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims | + | * What about ordinations that occurred before April 2014? As I said previously, '''I would respect them''' and keep them in place. God did not do anything until April of this year, and then only with the LDS Church leadership.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|19}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsJoseph|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims#.22You_should_ordain_no_one_to_an_office.22_in_the_priesthood|here]].}} {{Snuffer/ContradictsDC|See [[Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Denver_Snuffer/Doctrinal_claims#.22You_should_ordain_no_one_to_an_office.22_in_the_priesthood|here]].}} |
* '''Do you''' lay on hands to ordain? '''Yes''', I would follow everything that has been given in scripture to this point. We are "adding to." We are not throwing away anything. We are trying to preserve, return, and renew. We are not trying to tread under our feet anything that is useful, laudable, worthy, desirable, or that came down from the Restoration. It is not God's purpose to abandon the Restoration. It is His purpose to preserve it. Laying on hands, however, confers only the right to go to God to get power.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|19}} | * '''Do you''' lay on hands to ordain? '''Yes''', I would follow everything that has been given in scripture to this point. We are "adding to." We are not throwing away anything. We are trying to preserve, return, and renew. We are not trying to tread under our feet anything that is useful, laudable, worthy, desirable, or that came down from the Restoration. It is not God's purpose to abandon the Restoration. It is His purpose to preserve it. Laying on hands, however, confers only the right to go to God to get power.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|19}} | ||
* Another requirement is a record of the names of those you baptize. You '''do not record''' their email addresses, vital statistics, phone numbers, or any contact information. Only names. Therefore, after you have complied to have power to baptize, and taught them the Doctrine of Christ and they have repented, and are being baptized, their name '''must be''' recorded. You choose recorders in your fellowships, and a recorder to compile the names from all the various fellowships. Someone '''has to''' keep the names in a record. '''Faithfully record''' the name every time there is a baptism. There will be various recorders in various locations. The various recorders '''need to''' submit them to a single central record keeper on an annual basis. Have the recorders from the various fellowships identify themselves. '''I can give them some further direction''', but there should be annually complied, a single volume, that will be deposited in a temple. Ultimately there will be a temple built.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|21}} | * Another requirement is a record of the names of those you baptize. You '''do not record''' their email addresses, vital statistics, phone numbers, or any contact information. Only names. Therefore, after you have complied to have power to baptize, and taught them the Doctrine of Christ and they have repented, and are being baptized, their name '''must be''' recorded. You choose recorders in your fellowships, and a recorder to compile the names from all the various fellowships. Someone '''has to''' keep the names in a record. '''Faithfully record''' the name every time there is a baptism. There will be various recorders in various locations. The various recorders '''need to''' submit them to a single central record keeper on an annual basis. Have the recorders from the various fellowships identify themselves. '''I can give them some further direction''', but there should be annually complied, a single volume, that will be deposited in a temple. Ultimately there will be a temple built.<ref name="mesa"></ref>{{Rp|21}} |
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Snuffer tells his audience:
Snuffer claims that we should not have others tell us how to please God. In a sense, this is a self-contradictory claim. It is rather like the old argument against relativism:
Self-contradiction—In the same way, Snuffer claims that no one should "tell you how to please God." But, he follows this by telling people what they "must" do. Snuffer is telling us in the very next sentence to do something which he has just claimed he does not want us to do.
It is obvious throughout his speech that Snuffer does not follow his own advice. In essence, he says, "Don't listen to what other people tell you to do--don't listen to Church leaders. But, you should listen to me, because I've spoken to God, and I'm speaking for the Lord."
Snuffer makes grandiose claims the induce us to listen to him (even though he has told us not to listen to anyone but God). For example, he turns down great things from God (presumably because Snuffer wishes us to see him as spiritual and humble):
He claims that God will condemn those who condemn Snuffer's actions:
Snuffer here appropriates the words spoken by God to Joseph Smith.
Contradicts D&C—He even claims that he can ask God to change how things are done, and have God reply and tell him how things should be:
Self-contradiction—Thus, Snuffer claims we should not listen to Joseph's successors as prophets, but paints himself as a prophet (and one who should be listened to). He may not use the term "prophet," he may even disclaim it, but that is functionally what he is doing. It would be dishonest to pretend otherwise.
Snuffer claims:
Self-contradiction—But Snuffer has claimed new revelation (for revelation is a message from God giving instructions). We have just seen Snuffer ask God a question about priesthood, and get new instructions on true believers should conduct themselves. This contradicts scripture—the Doctrine and Covenants does not teach that only women should vote to sustain. So, Snuffer has given new scripture--or, at the least, a new revelation that alters scripture that we are to obey instead of scripture. He even admits later that this is what he is doing:
Contradicts D&C—So Snuffer is adding to the scriptures. This involves changing the scriptures, and that can only be called "new revelation," and even "new scripture."
Undercuts own argument—Snuffer also claims our attention should not be "displac[ed]...away from the scriptures." But, he has spent hundreds of pages telling us what the scriptures "really" mean or how they should be interpreted. He puts his own ideas up front, and then claims that we should only follow the scriptures—but, we note, it is Snuffer's interpretation of the scriptures that we are to embrace.
Snuffer gives other instructions changing scripture and Joseph Smith's practice:
Contradicts Joseph Smith—Joseph and church leaders under his direction would forbid people who were "unworthy" from taking the sacrament. Contradicts Book of Mormon—The Lord himself commanded his apostles to likewise guard those who were not worthy from taking the sacrament (3 Nephi 18꞉28-32; see also 1 Corinthians 11:27-29). Yet, Snuffer changes it.
Double standard—Snuffer says he does not feel he can change the Lord's word—so, Snuffer simply redefines the word, and puts the claim in God's mouth.
Self-contradiction—He wants us not to listen to anyone telling us how to please God—except him. Even the scriptures do not count if they disagree with Snuffer. He tells us what we have "permission" from God to do and not do.
In announcing his ten talks, Snuffer claims:
Self-contradiction—Despite telling his audience they should not rely on others for knowing "how to please God," Snuffer says he will tell them what God wants, and gives them "a framework." His talks give them a laundry list of things that they "must" do or not do (emphasis added in all cases):
Snuffer's claims and actions are self-contradictory. They also contravene the scriptures.
Notes
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