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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism Unmasked/Chapter 6"
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim=The author states that the first "fallacy" of Mormonism is that it claims that the Church's teaching are the same as those of the early Church and that it is a restoration of that Church. | |claim=The author states that the first "fallacy" of Mormonism is that it claims that the Church's teaching are the same as those of the early Church and that it is a restoration of that Church. | ||
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|claim=The author states that the second "fallacy" of Mormonism is the claim that there was a great Apostasy. | |claim=The author states that the second "fallacy" of Mormonism is the claim that there was a great Apostasy. | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The author states that Mormons believe that Adam and Eve "existed as purely spiritual beings although living on the earth," and that as a result of eating the fruit of the tree of good and evil, that "both Adam and Eve lost their purely 'spiritual state' and became physical beings." The author contrasts this idea with the Bible, which "says that God originally created Adam and Eve from material substance." |
| − | |authorsources= | + | |authorsources={{s|2|Nephi|2|22}}, {{s||Moses|3|5-7}} |
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | {{Incorrect}} Every Latter-day Saints believes that Adam and Eve were created from the material substance of this earth, just as the Bible says. The author has misunderstood 2 Nephi 2:22 and Moses 3:5-7. | ||
| + | |||
| + | 2 Nephi 2:22 says nothing about Adam and Eve living as "purely spiritual beings"" | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | |||
| + | Moses 3:5-7 specifically ''states'' that Adam was formed of the dust of the earth: | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word. | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
}} | }} | ||
| − | ==== ==== | + | |
| + | ====82==== | ||
{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The author claims that "Mormon thinkers speak of Adam and Eve as therefore fulfilling God's will, not having sinned at all." The author quotes Joseph Fielding Smith as saying, "I'm very, very grateful that in the ''Book of Mormon'', and I think elsewhere in our scriptures the fall of Adam has not been called a sin. It wasn't a sin..." |
| − | |authorsources= | + | |authorsources=''Doctrines of the Gospel'', 20, quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, "Fall-Atonement-Resurrection-Sacrament" in ''Charge to Religious Educators'', 124. |
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | *Latter-day Saints distinguish between a sin and a transgression. The Second Article of Faith states that Adam committed a transgression. | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | *Here's the full quote from Joseph Fielding Smith. He states that Adam committed a transgression rather than a sin: | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | “I’m very, very grateful that in the Book of Mormon, and I think elsewhere in our scriptures, the fall of Adam has not been called a sin. It wasn’t a sin. … What did Adam do? The very thing the Lord wanted him to do; and I hate to hear anybody call it a sin, for it wasn’t a sin. Did Adam sin when he partook of the forbidden fruit? I say to you, no, he did not! Now, let me refer to what was written in the book of Moses in regard to the command God gave to Adam. [Moses 3:16–17.] | ||
| + | <br><br> | ||
| + | “Now this is the way I interpret that: The Lord said to Adam, here is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you want to stay here, then you cannot eat of that fruit. If you want to stay here, then I forbid you to eat it. But you may act for yourself, and you may eat of it if you want to. And if you eat it, you will die. | ||
| + | <br><br> | ||
| + | “I see a great difference between transgressing the law and committing a sin” | ||
| + | <br><br> | ||
| + | ''Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual'', on lds.org. {{link|url=https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/chapter-8-the-fall?lang=eng}} | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
}} | }} | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The author attempts to distinguish between what he calls the "Mormon Jesus" and the Jesus of the Bible. |
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|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | {{SummaryItem | ||
| + | |link=Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus | ||
| + | |subject=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus | ||
| + | |summary=It is claimed that Latter-day Saints believe in a "different" Jesus that "mainstream" Christians. | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The author claims that "Mormonism also claims that Christ's death brought salvation to an 'infinite number of earths'" |
| − | |authorsources= | + | |authorsources=''Doctrines of the Gospel'', 25-26. |
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | {{SummaryItem | ||
| + | |link=Jesus Christ/Savior of other worlds | ||
| + | |subject=Savior of other worlds? | ||
| + | |summary=It would appear that there is one savior — Jesus — and that his sacrifice was the ultimate sacrifice for all of the worlds created and populated by the Father. Some critics have used the idea of each world having its own Savior against us. Is there anything written or published on either concept? | ||
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The author claims that Mormons believe that "most of the inhabitants of the terrestrial kingdom, it seems, are inactive or at least not fully faithful Mormons." |
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The author states the Mormons believe that "Hell, in fact, is reserved for apostates who leave the church." |
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Revision as of 23:00, 17 January 2014
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 Response to claims made in "Chapter 6: This is Good News?"
- 1.1 77-78
- 1.2 Claim The author states that Jesus promised that his Church would never be destroyed.
- 1.3 Claim The author states that the first "fallacy" of Mormonism is that it claims that the Church's teaching are the same as those of the early Church and that it is a restoration of that Church.
- 1.4 Claim The author states that the second "fallacy" of Mormonism is the claim that there was a great Apostasy.
- 1.5 Claim The author states that Mormons believe that Adam and Eve "existed as purely spiritual beings although living on the earth," and that as a result of eating the fruit of the tree of good and evil, that "both Adam and Eve lost their purely 'spiritual state' and became physical beings." The author contrasts this idea with the Bible, which "says that God originally created Adam and Eve from material substance."
- 1.6 Claim The author claims that "Mormon thinkers speak of Adam and Eve as therefore fulfilling God's will, not having sinned at all." The author quotes Joseph Fielding Smith as saying, "I'm very, very grateful that in the Book of Mormon, and I think elsewhere in our scriptures the fall of Adam has not been called a sin. It wasn't a sin..."
- 1.7 Claim The author attempts to distinguish between what he calls the "Mormon Jesus" and the Jesus of the Bible.
- 1.8 Claim The author claims that "Mormonism also claims that Christ's death brought salvation to an 'infinite number of earths'"
- 1.9 Claim The author claims that Mormons believe that "most of the inhabitants of the terrestrial kingdom, it seems, are inactive or at least not fully faithful Mormons."
- 1.10 Claim The author states the Mormons believe that "Hell, in fact, is reserved for apostates who leave the church."
Response to claims made in "Chapter 6: This is Good News?"
| Chapter 5: Confronting the Mormon Jesus | A FAIR Analysis of: Mormonism Unmasked A work by author: R. Philip Roberts
|
Chapter 7: Revealing Revelations |
77-78
Claim
The author states that Jesus promised that his Church would never be destroyed.
Author's source(s)
Matthew 16:13-20
Response
Jesus told Peter, "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Summary: Is Jesus' teaching about "the gates of hell" prevailing against "the rock" inconsistent with a belief in a universal apostasy?
78
Claim
The author states that the first "fallacy" of Mormonism is that it claims that the Church's teaching are the same as those of the early Church and that it is a restoration of that Church.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
78
Claim
The author states that the second "fallacy" of Mormonism is the claim that there was a great Apostasy.
Response
Prediction of
Summary: Does the Bible predict that an apostasy would occur?
82
Claim
The author states that Mormons believe that Adam and Eve "existed as purely spiritual beings although living on the earth," and that as a result of eating the fruit of the tree of good and evil, that "both Adam and Eve lost their purely 'spiritual state' and became physical beings." The author contrasts this idea with the Bible, which "says that God originally created Adam and Eve from material substance."
Author's source(s)
2 Nephi 2꞉22, Moses 3꞉5-7
Response
The author got one fact incorrect:
Every Latter-day Saints believes that Adam and Eve were created from the material substance of this earth, just as the Bible says. The author has misunderstood 2 Nephi 2:22 and Moses 3:5-7.
2 Nephi 2:22 says nothing about Adam and Eve living as "purely spiritual beings""
And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
Moses 3:5-7 specifically states that Adam was formed of the dust of the earth:
And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.
82
Claim
The author claims that "Mormon thinkers speak of Adam and Eve as therefore fulfilling God's will, not having sinned at all." The author quotes Joseph Fielding Smith as saying, "I'm very, very grateful that in the Book of Mormon, and I think elsewhere in our scriptures the fall of Adam has not been called a sin. It wasn't a sin..."
Author's source(s)
Doctrines of the Gospel, 20, quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, "Fall-Atonement-Resurrection-Sacrament" in Charge to Religious Educators, 124.
Response
- Latter-day Saints distinguish between a sin and a transgression. The Second Article of Faith states that Adam committed a transgression.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
- Here's the full quote from Joseph Fielding Smith. He states that Adam committed a transgression rather than a sin:
“I’m very, very grateful that in the Book of Mormon, and I think elsewhere in our scriptures, the fall of Adam has not been called a sin. It wasn’t a sin. … What did Adam do? The very thing the Lord wanted him to do; and I hate to hear anybody call it a sin, for it wasn’t a sin. Did Adam sin when he partook of the forbidden fruit? I say to you, no, he did not! Now, let me refer to what was written in the book of Moses in regard to the command God gave to Adam. [Moses 3:16–17.]
“Now this is the way I interpret that: The Lord said to Adam, here is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you want to stay here, then you cannot eat of that fruit. If you want to stay here, then I forbid you to eat it. But you may act for yourself, and you may eat of it if you want to. And if you eat it, you will die.
“I see a great difference between transgressing the law and committing a sin”
Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, on lds.org. off-site
84
Claim
The author attempts to distinguish between what he calls the "Mormon Jesus" and the Jesus of the Bible.
Response
The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Summary: It is claimed that Latter-day Saints believe in a "different" Jesus that "mainstream" Christians.
85
Claim
The author claims that "Mormonism also claims that Christ's death brought salvation to an 'infinite number of earths'"
Author's source(s)
Doctrines of the Gospel, 25-26.
Response
Savior of other worlds?
Summary: It would appear that there is one savior — Jesus — and that his sacrifice was the ultimate sacrifice for all of the worlds created and populated by the Father. Some critics have used the idea of each world having its own Savior against us. Is there anything written or published on either concept?
86
Claim
The author claims that Mormons believe that "most of the inhabitants of the terrestrial kingdom, it seems, are inactive or at least not fully faithful Mormons."
Response
The author got one fact incorrect:
89
Claim
The author states the Mormons believe that "Hell, in fact, is reserved for apostates who leave the church."
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources