FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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{{MormonThinkIndexClaim | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The leaders of the church, as well as gospel doctrine teachers the world over, have taught that many Biblical events and beliefs that people have had for centuries are indeed true, historical events. Joseph Smith and other prophets have made statements that indicated that certain Biblical events were indeed historical and not merely parables. Many of these Biblical traditions were believed as literal events by most of the general population in the 1800s as well. These include: |
| + | 1. Flood of Noah. | ||
| + | 2. Tower of Babel . | ||
| + | 3. Adam and Eve were the first humans. | ||
| + | 4. Dinosaurs were never alive on this earth, because there was no death before Adam. | ||
| + | 5. Age of the Earth is thousands instead of billions of years old. | ||
| + | 6. Evolution did not happen. | ||
| + | 7. Sun gets its light from Kolob. | ||
| + | 8. Other Bible stories such as the Exodus, Jonah and the whale, Joshua stopping the sun or tumbling the walls of Jericho, David and Solomon, etc. | ||
| + | |||
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{{MormonThinkIndexClaim | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=The LDS church teaches that the flood of Noah was a literal global and worldwide event, and that the flood was the Earth's baptism....we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets. |
| + | January 1998 Ensign, The Flood and the Tower of Babel, Donald W. Parry | ||
| + | |||
| + | Our comment: How much clearer can you get? The Ensign article makes it extremely clear what the LDS position is on Noah and the Flood. [The Ensign articles are all approved by the First presidency and almost considered scripture.] | ||
| + | |||
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{{MormonThinkIndexClaim | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim | ||
| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Even the LDS apologists admit that the church clearly teaches that story of Noah was a real event and it was a global flood: |
| + | Without a doubt, the flood is always treated as global event as it is taught by Church leaders. This is not likely to ever change, since it is based directly upon a straightforward reading of the scriptures. | ||
| + | |||
|think= | |think= | ||
| + | *{{antispeak|admit}} | ||
|quote= | |quote= | ||
}} | }} | ||
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=[A] brief summary of problems with the Global Flood: 1. Ice. 2. Genetic Diversity. 3. Worldwide distribution of species. 4. Fish and coral. 5. No room on the ark. 6. No geological record. 7.Where did the water go? 8. How did the carnivores survive? ....Critic's comment: The idea of a universal flood simply does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny. How can an honest person deny his/her God-given intelligence and seriously believe in such an obvious myth? And setting aside the impossibilities of Noah's tale for a minute, are we really to believe that every single inhabitant of the earth (save 8 people) were all so absolutely wicked, including the children, that they all deserved to be killed? And who would want to worship a God anyway that would murder all but 8 of his children on earth because they had grown too wicked? |
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Implausibility of the Tower of Babel |
| + | Languages are continuously evolving over long periods of time, do not diversify suddenly, and can be traced back at least 12,000 years, which pre-dates the Tower of Babel. | ||
| + | Divergent traditions are also revealed when we consider the bizarre editing surrounding the story of the Tower of Babel. First the peoples of the earth are described, with their various foreign languages. | ||
| + | |||
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Implausibility of Sun getting its light from Kolob |
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Implausibility of no death before the Fall |
| + | The fossils of animals and plants that have lived and died on this earth are thousands and millions of years old. From ancient dead animals and plants, it takes millions of years for oil and coal to form. | ||
| + | |||
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Age of the Earth. D&C Sec.77:6 (emphasis added) |
| + | Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals? | ||
| + | A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during theseven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence. | ||
| + | Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed? | ||
| + | |||
| + | A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first | ||
| + | thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on | ||
| + | until the seventh. | ||
| + | |||
| + | -- Joseph Smith, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 77 (1832) | ||
| + | |||
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim= the quotes given above by the prophets since Joseph Smith's time show that the LDS Church clearly taught that the earth was only thousands of years old instead of billions of years old for all of the 19th century and much of the 20th century. The quotes in the Doctrine & Covenants are canonized scripture and cannot be discarded so casually as many LDS apologists like to do. Many gospel doctrine teachers still teach that the earth isn't nearly as old as scientists say. |
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Belief in Evolution |
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=Implausibility of Adam and Eve being the First Humans |
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| − | |claim= | + | |claim=From the FAIR apologists |
| + | Like the FARMS apologists, the FAIR apologists also seem to be at odds with the church teachings. Most FAIR apologists accept the data supported by science to agree that there was no global flood. Our response to FAIR: You could probably believe whatever you want about anything taught in the LDS Church and they are not going to kick you out of the church. Of course believing in the story of Noah isn't one of the temple recommend interview questions. That isn't the issue. It also doesn't doesn't mean you can dismiss the huge problems this creates for the church if the story of Noah and a global flood isn't true as the church teaches. | ||
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Revision as of 18:53, 9 May 2012
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
| A FAIR Analysis of: MormonThink A work by author: Anonymous
|
A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "Conflicts with Science"
FAIRMORMON'S VIEW OF THE CRITICS' CONCLUSIONS
The positions that this MormonThink article appears to take are the following:
FAIRMORMON'S RESPONSE AND SUPPORTING DATA
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The leaders of the church, as well as gospel doctrine teachers the world over, have taught that many Biblical events and beliefs that people have had for centuries are indeed true, historical events. Joseph Smith and other prophets have made statements that indicated that certain Biblical events were indeed historical and not merely parables. Many of these Biblical traditions were believed as literal events by most of the general population in the 1800s as well. These include:
1. Flood of Noah.
2. Tower of Babel .
3. Adam and Eve were the first humans.
4. Dinosaurs were never alive on this earth, because there was no death before Adam.
5. Age of the Earth is thousands instead of billions of years old.
6. Evolution did not happen.
7. Sun gets its light from Kolob.
8. Other Bible stories such as the Exodus, Jonah and the whale, Joshua stopping the sun or tumbling the walls of Jericho, David and Solomon, etc.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The LDS church teaches that the flood of Noah was a literal global and worldwide event, and that the flood was the Earth's baptism....we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.
January 1998 Ensign, The Flood and the Tower of Babel, Donald W. Parry
Our comment: How much clearer can you get? The Ensign article makes it extremely clear what the LDS position is on Noah and the Flood. [The Ensign articles are all approved by the First presidency and almost considered scripture.]
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Even the LDS apologists admit that the church clearly teaches that story of Noah was a real event and it was a global flood:
Without a doubt, the flood is always treated as global event as it is taught by Church leaders. This is not likely to ever change, since it is based directly upon a straightforward reading of the scriptures.
FairMormon commentary
- The author claims that believers "admitted" something —Critics claim that apologists only "admit" facts, while critics "disclose the truth."
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
[A] brief summary of problems with the Global Flood: 1. Ice. 2. Genetic Diversity. 3. Worldwide distribution of species. 4. Fish and coral. 5. No room on the ark. 6. No geological record. 7.Where did the water go? 8. How did the carnivores survive? ....Critic's comment: The idea of a universal flood simply does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny. How can an honest person deny his/her God-given intelligence and seriously believe in such an obvious myth? And setting aside the impossibilities of Noah's tale for a minute, are we really to believe that every single inhabitant of the earth (save 8 people) were all so absolutely wicked, including the children, that they all deserved to be killed? And who would want to worship a God anyway that would murder all but 8 of his children on earth because they had grown too wicked?
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Implausibility of the Tower of Babel
Languages are continuously evolving over long periods of time, do not diversify suddenly, and can be traced back at least 12,000 years, which pre-dates the Tower of Babel.
Divergent traditions are also revealed when we consider the bizarre editing surrounding the story of the Tower of Babel. First the peoples of the earth are described, with their various foreign languages.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Implausibility of Sun getting its light from Kolob
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Implausibility of no death before the Fall
The fossils of animals and plants that have lived and died on this earth are thousands and millions of years old. From ancient dead animals and plants, it takes millions of years for oil and coal to form.
FairMormon commentary
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
the quotes given above by the prophets since Joseph Smith's time show that the LDS Church clearly taught that the earth was only thousands of years old instead of billions of years old for all of the 19th century and much of the 20th century. The quotes in the Doctrine & Covenants are canonized scripture and cannot be discarded so casually as many LDS apologists like to do. Many gospel doctrine teachers still teach that the earth isn't nearly as old as scientists say.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Belief in Evolution
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Implausibility of Adam and Eve being the First Humans
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
From the FAIR apologists
Like the FARMS apologists, the FAIR apologists also seem to be at odds with the church teachings. Most FAIR apologists accept the data supported by science to agree that there was no global flood. Our response to FAIR: You could probably believe whatever you want about anything taught in the LDS Church and they are not going to kick you out of the church. Of course believing in the story of Noah isn't one of the temple recommend interview questions. That isn't the issue. It also doesn't doesn't mean you can dismiss the huge problems this creates for the church if the story of Noah and a global flood isn't true as the church teaches.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary