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Difference between revisions of "Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 2"
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* There is no LDS doctrine on the method of Jesus' conception, save to say He is literally God's son. | * There is no LDS doctrine on the method of Jesus' conception, save to say He is literally God's son. | ||
* In LDS doctrine, "the virgin [Mary]...is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh....she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time" she bore Jesus, the Son of God (see {{s|1|Nephi|11|18-19}}). | * In LDS doctrine, "the virgin [Mary]...is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh....she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time" she bore Jesus, the Son of God (see {{s|1|Nephi|11|18-19}}). | ||
| − | *{{Detail|Jesus_Christ/Conception|Conception of Jesus Christ}} | + | *{{Detail|Jesus_Christ/Conception|l1=Conception of Jesus Christ}} |
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
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|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | * Some early LDS believed Jesus may have been married; the Church has no doctrine on this position. The scriptures do not tell us if Jesus was married or not. | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Was Jesus married|l1=Was_Jesus_Christ_married?}} | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
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* This is false. Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus' atoning sacrifice ''began'' in the Garden of Gethsemane, and was ''completed'' by his death on the cross. Furthermore, Jesus' entire perfect life formed part of his offering and mission in our behalf. | * This is false. Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus' atoning sacrifice ''began'' in the Garden of Gethsemane, and was ''completed'' by his death on the cross. Furthermore, Jesus' entire perfect life formed part of his offering and mission in our behalf. | ||
| − | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross|The Garden and the Cross}} | + | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross|l1=The Garden and the Cross}} |
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
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|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | * The authors here regard ''their'' late, rather idiosyncratic brand of conservative Protestant Christianity to be the same as "traditional" Christian views. But, in fact, there have been multiple Christian views on this point throughout history. | ||
| + | * In LDS doctrine, one is initially justified by the receipt of the Holy Ghost at baptism (see {{s||Moses|6|60}}). This requires faith in Christ, repentance, and baptism. The Book of Mormon contains account of wicked, ungodly individuals receiving this blessing prior to any change in behavior (see {{s||Mosiah|27|8-31}}; {{s||Alma|36||}}.) Even in these critics' theology one must "do something" to be justified: accept Christ. | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Grace_and_works/Early_Christian_views_on_salvation|l1=Early Christians agreed with the Latter-day Saints on this point}} | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Grace_and_works/Salvation_by_faith_alone|Salvation by faith alone}} | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
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|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
| + | * The authors here regard ''their'' late, rather idiosyncratic brand of conservative Protestant Christianity to be the same as "traditional" Christian views. But, in fact, there have been multiple Christian views on this point throughout history. | ||
| + | * The critics' theology does not offer salvation without ''any'' conditions: it requires that one accept Jesus. Latter-day Saints likewise believe that one must accept Jesus' sacrifice—those who do so sincerely will keep the conditions which the scriptures require: faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, being born again of the Spirit, and enduring to the end. | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Grace_and_works/Early_Christian_views_on_salvation|l1=Early Christians agreed with the Latter-day Saints on this point}} | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Grace_and_works/Salvation_by_faith_alone|Salvation by faith alone}} | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus|l1=The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
Revision as of 12:16, 9 March 2010
| Section 1 | A FAIR Analysis of:
Watchman Fellowship |
Section 3 |
Index of Claims in "Hinckley Claims LDS Worship Different Christ"
Claim
The authors use Gordon B. Hinckley's statement to "prove" that Latter-day Saints believe in "another Christ." President Hinckley stated that Latter-day Saints
do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.
do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.
Author's source(s)
- LDS Church News, June 20, 1998. off-site
Response
- For a detailed response, see: Gordon B. Hinckley states that Latter-day Saints don't believe in the "traditional" Christ
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Eternally God."
- The "Mormon Christ" was "not always God" and "became a God."
Response- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Only God."
- The "Mormon Christ" is "One of Many Gods."
Response- In LDS theology, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God. That oneness is understood differently than the creeds.
- For a detailed response, see: Polytheism
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Creator of All Things."
- The "Mormon Christ" "Was Created; Spirit Brother of Lucifer."
Response- Much of this is false. Jesus was not created in LDS theology. Jesus is also the Creator in LDS theology: "he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary" (Mosiah 3꞉8). Latter-day Saints, like the early Christians, reject the creedal doctrine of creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing).
- For a detailed response, see: Creation out of nothing (creatio ex nihilo)
- For a detailed response, see: Jesus as spirit brother of Lucifer
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Begotten Miraculously, of the Holy Spirit"
- The "Mormon Christ" is "Begotten Sexually, by God the Father"
Response- There is no LDS doctrine on the method of Jesus' conception, save to say He is literally God's son.
- In LDS doctrine, "the virgin [Mary]...is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh....she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time" she bore Jesus, the Son of God (see 1 Nephi 11꞉18-19).
- For a detailed response, see: Conception of Jesus Christ
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Not Married."
- The "Mormon Christ" is "Married with Children."
Response- Some early LDS believed Jesus may have been married; the Church has no doctrine on this position. The scriptures do not tell us if Jesus was married or not.
- For a detailed response, see: Was_Jesus_Christ_married?
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Atoned for Sin by Death on the Cross"
- The "Mormon Christ" is "Atoned by Sweating Blood in Gethsemane."
Response- This is false. Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus' atoning sacrifice began in the Garden of Gethsemane, and was completed by his death on the cross. Furthermore, Jesus' entire perfect life formed part of his offering and mission in our behalf.
- For a detailed response, see: The Garden and the Cross
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Justifies the Ungodly."
- The "Mormon Christ" "Requires Godliness before Justification."
Response- The authors here regard their late, rather idiosyncratic brand of conservative Protestant Christianity to be the same as "traditional" Christian views. But, in fact, there have been multiple Christian views on this point throughout history.
- In LDS doctrine, one is initially justified by the receipt of the Holy Ghost at baptism (see Moses 6꞉60). This requires faith in Christ, repentance, and baptism. The Book of Mormon contains account of wicked, ungodly individuals receiving this blessing prior to any change in behavior (see Mosiah 27꞉8-31; Alma 36.) Even in these critics' theology one must "do something" to be justified: accept Christ.
- For a detailed response, see: Early Christians agreed with the Latter-day Saints on this point
- For a detailed response, see: Grace_and_works/Salvation_by_faith_alone and Salvation by faith alone
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus
Claim
- The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Offers Full Salvation Unconditionally."
- The "Mormon Christ" "Offers Full Salvation Only on Conditions."
Response- The authors here regard their late, rather idiosyncratic brand of conservative Protestant Christianity to be the same as "traditional" Christian views. But, in fact, there have been multiple Christian views on this point throughout history.
- The critics' theology does not offer salvation without any conditions: it requires that one accept Jesus. Latter-day Saints likewise believe that one must accept Jesus' sacrifice—those who do so sincerely will keep the conditions which the scriptures require: faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, being born again of the Spirit, and enduring to the end.
- For a detailed response, see: Early Christians agreed with the Latter-day Saints on this point
- For a detailed response, see: Grace_and_works/Salvation_by_faith_alone and Salvation by faith alone
- For a detailed response, see: The "Mormon" vs. the "Christian" Jesus