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| :Those who absolutely refuse to repent will remain 'filthy still'; they will retain their memberships in the church of the devil. They are sons and daughters of Perdition, suffering the damnation of the second death. (Alma 12:12-18; D&C 88:35.)"{{ref|turner.2}} | | :Those who absolutely refuse to repent will remain 'filthy still'; they will retain their memberships in the church of the devil. They are sons and daughters of Perdition, suffering the damnation of the second death. (Alma 12:12-18; D&C 88:35.)"{{ref|turner.2}} |
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− | ===Thoughts and reflections===
| + | ==Thoughts and reflections== |
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| :31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power— | | :31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power— |
Revision as of 00:03, 25 May 2009
This article is a draft. FairMormon editors are currently editing it. We welcome your suggestions on improving the content.
This page is based on an answer to a question submitted to the FAIR web site, or a frequently asked question.
Question
Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female 'Sons of Perdition'?
Answer
FAIR is not aware of any official Church position on this issue.
Evidence against the idea
The idea that women cannot become "sons of perdition" likely comes from DC 84꞉40-41:
- 40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
- 41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
Some interpret this to mean that to become a "son of perdition," one must first hold the priesthood. It does, in fact, state that if one knows the priesthood and denies it, it is unforgivable. However, it does not suggest that that is the only way to become a son of perdition. DC 76꞉31-32 lays out the criteria for being a son of perdition:
There is also the following Joseph Fielding Smith quote which leads many to believe that only priesthood holders can be sons of perdition:
- I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition. They will be punished if they rebel against God They will have to pay the price of their sinning, but it is only those who have the light through the priesthood and through the power of God and through their membership in the Church who will be banished forever from his influence into outer darkness to dwell with the devil and his angels. That is a punishment that will not come to those who have never known the truth. Bad as they may suffer, and awful as their punishment may be, they are not among that group which is to suffer the eternal death and banishment from all influence concerning the power of God (emphasis added).[1]
The next day, during Priesthood Session, President Stephen L Richards said:
- It is a tremendous responsibility to bear the Holy Priesthood. I wish all of you -- perhaps all did not -- had heard what President Joseph Fielding Smith told us yesterday, something I have long believed, and I was glad to have sanction for my belief. He said in substance that there will be no Sons of Perdition who do not hold the Priesthood. I have believed that for years because I do not think that the Lord in his mercy would ever condemn a man to that indescribable penalty of being put out entirely from the Kingdom and from all grace unless that man knew that Jesus was the Christ, unless he knew the power of the Christ, and he could only know that, I think by holding the Priesthood. I believe that in the main that can be said to be true -- that only men who hold the Priesthood of God stand in danger of that terrible penalty of being classed as outcasts (emphasis added) .[2]
Some have concluded that President Smith's citation means that only priesthood holders risk perdition. It should be noted, however, that the quote seems to only be referring to men to begin with, and President Richards was speaking to a congregation of men, going on to emphasize the necessity of being worthy of the priesthood—he may have therefore spoken exclusively to the men (i.e., the only men who can reach perdition are priesthood holders) rather than exclusively of men (i.e., only men with the priesthood risk perdition).
Women do receive "light through the priesthood and through the power of God" if they are members, which meets President Smith's requirements. (Men in such a situation would also be priesthood holders, of course.) The Church is built up on the power of the priesthood, but it seems inconsistent with other gospel teachings to suggest that women are not equal participants.
Is "sons" generic?
Interestingly, the father of the above author (Joseph F. Smith) endorsed the idea of there being males and females in perdition, but labeled them all as "sons of perdition," suggesting that he saw "sons" as generic (like "man must repent"), and not as a matter of gender:
- Hence I warn you, my brethren and sisters, especially my brethren, against trifling with your Bishopric, because if you do, as God lives He will withdraw His Spirit from you, and the time will come when you will be found kicking against the light and knowledge which you have received, and you may become sons of perdition (emphasis added).[3]
Brigham Young used a similar expression when he said:
- The names of every son and daughter of Adam are already written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Is there ever a time when they will be taken out of it? Yes, when they become sons of perdition, and not till then. Every person has the privilege of retaining it there for ever and ever. If they neglect that privilege, then theft names will be erased, and not till then. All the names of the human family are written there, and the Lord will hold them there until they come to the knowledge of the truth, that they can rebel against him, and can sin against the Holy Ghost; then they will be thrust down to hell, and their names be blotted out from the Lamb's Book of Life (emphasis added).[4]
Here again, both sons and daughters are mentioned as being potential "sons of perdition." Brigham would later say that "All the sons and daughters of men will be saved, except the sons of perdition,"[5] and "Jesus will bring forth, by his own redemption, every son and daughter of Adam, except the sons of perdition, who will be cast into hell."[6]
Brigham elsewhere explicitly lumped all traitors to Christ with the sons of perdition:
- The Lord is merciful, but, when He comes to His Kingdom on the earth, He will banish traitors from His presence, and they will be sons of perdition. Every apostate who ever received this gospel in faith, and had the Spirit of it, will have to repent in sackcloth and ashes, and sacrifice all he possesses, or be a son of perdition, go down to hell, and there dwell with the damned; and those who persecute and destroy the people of God, and shed the blood of innocence, will be judged accordingly.[7]
Further evidence for the idea
In addition, 2 Nephi 2꞉11 states clearly that there is opposition in all things.
- For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
For every evil, there is an equal and opposite good and vice versa. It seems logical that if women are capable of exaltation, they are also capable of perdition.
Indeed, Joseph Smith's father--in his capacity as Patriarch of the Church--warned against becoming a "daughter of perdition" through apostasy.[8]
Other Church authorities and authors that have endorsed the idea of sons and daughters of perdition include:
- Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon
- "That there will also be daughters of perdition there is no doubt in the minds of the brethren."[9]
- Joseph F. Smith
- "The devil knows the Father much better than we. Lucifer, the son of the morning, knows Jesus Christ, the Son of God, much better than we, but in him it is not and will not redound to eternal life; for knowing, he yet rebels; knowing he yet is disobedient; he will not receive the truth; he will not abide in the truth; hence he is Perdition, and there is no salvation for him. The same doctrine applies to me and to you and to all the sons and daughters of God who have judgment and knowledge and are able to reason between cause and effect, and determine the right from the wrong and the good from the evil and who are capable of seeing the light and distinguishing it from the darkness."[10]
- Melvin J. Ballard
- "[God] has other sons and daughters who do not even attain unto the telestial kingdom. They are sons of perdition out with the devil and his angels, and though the Father has grieved over them, he still has not the power to rescue and save them because He gave them free agency, and they used that in such a manner that they have shut themselves out from His presence. But He is justified. He has performed His full duty by them."[11]
- Rodney Turner
- "Satan is called perdition. (D&C 76:26.) Therefore, all who yield to his enticings and die in their sins are sons (or daughters) of perdition and will have to suffer in hell for a given length of time. (Moses 7:37-39.) The risen Christ compared Nephite apostates to Judas: 'For they are led away captive by him [Satan] even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver.' (3 Ne. 27:32.) Those Gentiles who deny Christ 'shall become like unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy.' (3 Ne. 29:7.) 'No mercy' means they must bear the full weight of divine justice (the wrath of God or hell) before being saved. They are temporary sons or daughters of perdition as opposed to those who, failing to ever repent, are termed the "filthy still" (D&C 88:35, 102) and are consigned to the fullness of the second death (D&C 29:27-30, 41)."[12]
- Rodney Turner
- "Between now and the last judgment, billions of men and women will be transferring their memberships from one church to the other! Those who repent, bow the knee, and confess that Jesus is the Christ will be numbered with the church of the Lamb of God (Mosiah 27:31; D&C 76:110-11).
- Those who absolutely refuse to repent will remain 'filthy still'; they will retain their memberships in the church of the devil. They are sons and daughters of Perdition, suffering the damnation of the second death. (Alma 12:12-18; D&C 88:35.)"[13]
Thoughts and reflections
- 31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
- 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
Therefore, the criteria for becoming a "son of perdition" are:
- Know God's power
- Deny that power
If we argue that women are not capable of this, which of these two things are we saying that women are not capable of? Obviously they are capable of the first and if they aren't capable of the second, then that completely flies in the face of agency.
It is possible that the idea that women are not capable of perdition is part of a phenomenon of so-called "woman worship" that sometimes goes on at church. The men put themselves down, praising the sisters, saying their wives are more righteous than they are, that there are "more women in heaven," mothers are all angels, and so on. It's a nice sentiment, but it's incorrect and it does not do justice to the female mortal experience. Men who think that women are, as a whole, better simply don't know enough women or perhaps don't know the women they do know well enough. Women are social networkers and are naturally more concerned with the social consequences to their actions (i.e., hurting someone's feelings, betraying someone, being embarrassed, etc). The reality is that women are just as human and flawed as men, and capable of good and evil to the same capacity as men. They are simply different and therefore prone to different behaviors.
Conclusion
It seems, on balance, that one could draw the conclusion that women can become sons of perdition. Perhaps "daughters" is more accurate, but this is purely semantics, and at least one Church leader (Joseph F. Smith) used the expression "sons of perdition" to refer to both women and men.
There is a chance that daughters of perdition are fundamentally different from sons of perdition, but one could suggest that the difference is not in degree of transgression, but rather simply different as it pertains to their genders.
Most Latter-day Saints would regard this as a point of theoretical or hair-splitting interest only—surely no one aspires to be a son/daughter of perdition! This is likely the reason for which we are told so little about the matter. As the Lord told Joseph Smith about those who go to perdition,
- the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows; Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again; Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation (DC 76꞉45-48).
The Church does not take an official position on this issue
Statements about matters about which there is no official doctrine
J. Reuben Clark |
This is one of many issues about which the Church has no official position. As President J. Reuben Clark taught under assignment from the First Presidency:
- Here we must have in mind—must know—that only the President of the Church, the Presiding High Priest, is sustained as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator for the Church, and he alone has the right to receive revelations for the Church, either new or amendatory, or to give authoritative interpretations of scriptures that shall be binding on the Church....
- When any man, except the President of the Church, undertakes to proclaim one unsettled doctrine, as among two or more doctrines in dispute, as the settled doctrine of the Church, we may know that he is not "moved upon by the Holy Ghost," unless he is acting under the direction and by the authority of the President.
- Of these things we may have a confident assurance without chance for doubt or quibbling.[1]
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Harold B. Lee |
Harold B. Lee was emphatic that only one person can speak for the Church:
- All over the Church you're being asked this: "What does the Church think about this or that?" Have you ever heard anybody ask that question? "What does the Church think about the civil rights legislation?" "What do they think about the war?" "What do they think about drinking Coca-Cola or Sanka coffee?" Did you ever hear that? "What do they think about the Democratic Party or ticket or the Republican ticket?" Did you ever hear that? "How should we vote in this forthcoming election?" Now, with most all of those questions, if you answer them, you're going to be in trouble. Most all of them. Now, it's the smart man that will say, "There's only one man in this church that speaks for the Church, and I'm not that one man."
- I think nothing could get you into deep water quicker than to answer people on these things, when they say, "What does the Church think?" and you want to be smart, so you try to answer what the Church's policy is. Well, you're not the one to make the policies for the Church. You just remember what the Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians. He said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:2). Well now, as teachers of our youth, you're not supposed to know anything except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. On that subject you're expected to be an expert. You're expected to know your subject. You're expected to have a testimony. And in that you'll have great strength. If the President of the Church has not declared the position of the Church, then you shouldn't go shopping for the answer.[2]
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First Presidency |
This was recently reiterated by the First Presidency (who now approves all statements published on the Church's official website):
- Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency...and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles...counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.[3]
In response to a letter "received at the office of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in 1912, Charles W. Penrose of the First Presidency wrote:
- Question 14: Do you believe that the President of the Church, when speaking to the Church in his official capacity is infallible?
- Answer: We do not believe in the infallibility of man. When God reveals anything it is truth, and truth is infallible. No President of the Church has claimed infallibility.[4]
There is more material on official doctrine in the Church in this link. |
References |
Notes
- ↑ J. Reuben Clark, Jr., "Church Leaders and the Scriptures," [original title "When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?"] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 68–81.
- ↑ Harold B. Lee, Teachings of Harold B. Lee (Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1996), 445.
- ↑ LDS Newsroom, "Approaching Mormon Doctrine," lds.org (4 May 2007)
- ↑ Charles W. Penrose, "Peculiar Questions Briefly Answered," Improvement Era 15 no. 11 (September 1912).
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Endnotes
- [note] Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report (October 1958), 21.
- [note] Stephen L Richards, Conference Report (October 1958), 86.
- [note] Joseph F. Smith, "The Second Death," in Brian H. Stuy (editor), Collected Discourses: Delivered by Wilford Woodruff, his two counselors, the twelve apostles, and others, 1868–1898, 5 vols., (Woodland Hills, Utah: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987–1989), 4:230. [Discourse given on 20 January 1895.]
- [note] Brigham Young, "Extensive Character of the Gospel—Comprehensiveness of Divine Revelation, Etc.," Journal of Discourses, reported by G.D. Watt, J.V. Long and others, (15 August 1852), Vol. 6 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1859), 297.off-site wiki
- [note] Brigham Young, "Union, etc.," Journal of Discourses, reported by G.D. Watt, J.V. Long and others, (7 October 1859), Vol. 7 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1860), 281.off-site wiki
- [note] Brigham Young, "The Three Glories," Journal of Discourses, reported by G.D. Watt, J.V. Long and others, (26 August 1860), Vol. 8 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1861), 154.off-site wiki See also Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:238. off-site wiki
- [note] Brigham Young, "The Priesthood to Dictate in Temporal As Well As Spiritual Things—Inconsistency of An Equal Division of Property—Let Apostates Alone," Journal of Discourses, reported by G.D. Watt, E.L. Sloan, and D.W. Evans, (16 June 1867), Vol. 12 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1869), 63.off-site
- [note] [citation needed] (MH: EX, 795).
- [note] H. Michael Marquardt, comp., Early Patriarchal Blessings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [Salt Lake City: The Smith-Pettit Foundation, 2007), 106.
- [note] Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report (April 1916), 3.
- [note] Melvin J. Ballard, Sermons and Missionary Services of Melvin J. Ballard (Salt Lake City, Deseret Book Co., 1949), 255–257.
- [note] Rodney Turner, "The Farewell of Jesus," in Studies in Scripture: Vol. 5, The Gospels, edited by Kent P. Jackson, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Co., 1986), endnote #20. ISBN 087579064X
- [note] Rodney Turner, "The Prophet Nephi," in Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate, Jr., eds., First Nephi: The Doctrinal Foundation: papers from the Second Annual Book of Mormon Symposium (Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1988), 90. ISBN 0884946479.
Further reading
FAIR wiki articles
FAIR web site
External links
Printed material
- Matthew B. Brown, The Plan of Salvation: Doctrinal Notes and Commentary (American Fork, UT: Covenant, ---), ----.