![FairMormon Logo](https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021_fair_logo_primary.png)
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
m |
m |
||
Line 7: | Line 7: | ||
|S=The challenge of Latter-day Saint scripture and an open canon to the Christian world means that there is a long history of polemics targeted at the Church of Jesus Christ. These are well-worn "chestnuts" and standard biblical issues that are "asked and answered" for Latter-day Saints over nearly two centuries. | |S=The challenge of Latter-day Saint scripture and an open canon to the Christian world means that there is a long history of polemics targeted at the Church of Jesus Christ. These are well-worn "chestnuts" and standard biblical issues that are "asked and answered" for Latter-day Saints over nearly two centuries. | ||
|L1=Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual? | |L1=Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual? | ||
− | |L2= | + | |L2=How is John 4:24 used as a proof-text by critics of the Church's doctrine of God having a body? |
− | |L3= | + | |L3=How is Isaiah 43:10 used as a proof-text by critics of the Church doctrines of humans' ability to become like God through Christ's atonement? |
|L4= | |L4= | ||
|L5= | |L5= | ||
Line 19: | Line 19: | ||
− | =Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual?= | + | |
− | ==When Latter-day Saints speak of God creating our "spirit bodies," we do not mean the glorified, physical "spiritual body" of the resurrected== | + | |
+ | = Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual? = | ||
+ | == When Latter-day Saints speak of God creating our "spirit bodies," we do not mean the glorified, physical "spiritual body" of the resurrected == | ||
When Latter-day Saints speak of God creating our "spirit bodies," we do not mean the glorified, physical "spiritual body" of the resurrected. We refer to God's role as our Heavenly Father before our mortal lives. | When Latter-day Saints speak of God creating our "spirit bodies," we do not mean the glorified, physical "spiritual body" of the resurrected. We refer to God's role as our Heavenly Father before our mortal lives. | ||
Line 28: | Line 30: | ||
It is unfortunate that critics find it necessary to distort and twist the clear meaning of scripture in an attempt to make the Latter-day Saints "offenders for a word." | It is unfortunate that critics find it necessary to distort and twist the clear meaning of scripture in an attempt to make the Latter-day Saints "offenders for a word." | ||
− | ==In context, Paul is clearly talking about the physical resurrection from the dead== | + | == In context, Paul is clearly talking about the physical resurrection from the dead == |
In context, Paul is clearly talking about the physical resurrection from the dead. For example, earlier in the chapter he has written: | In context, Paul is clearly talking about the physical resurrection from the dead. For example, earlier in the chapter he has written: | ||
Line 54: | Line 56: | ||
:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. ({{b|1|Corinthians|15|40-43}}.) | :44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. ({{b|1|Corinthians|15|40-43}}.) | ||
− | ==The "spiritual body" to which Paul refers is the resurrected physical body which has been glorified== | + | == The "spiritual body" to which Paul refers is the resurrected physical body which has been glorified == |
The "spiritual body" to which Paul refers is the resurrected physical body which has been glorified. | The "spiritual body" to which Paul refers is the resurrected physical body which has been glorified. | ||
Line 71: | Line 73: | ||
{{Critical sources box:Mormonism and scripture interpretation/First Corinthians 15 and spirit bodies/CriticalSources}}{{blankline}} | {{Critical sources box:Mormonism and scripture interpretation/First Corinthians 15 and spirit bodies/CriticalSources}}{{blankline}} | ||
− | =How is John 4:24 used as a proof-text by critics of | + | = How is John 4:24 used as a proof-text by critics of the Church's doctrine of God having a body?= |
− | ==Critics read into the passage what is not there. This passage in John does not assert anything about God's corporeal nature or lack thereof== | + | == Critics read into the passage what is not there. This passage in John does not assert anything about God's corporeal nature or lack thereof == |
{{ScriptureHeader}} | {{ScriptureHeader}} | ||
− | ==King James Version== | + | == King James Version == |
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. | God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. | ||
Line 80: | Line 82: | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
− | ==Other translation(s)== | + | == Other translation(s) == |
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (NASB) | God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (NASB) | ||
Line 93: | Line 95: | ||
Critics read into the passage what is not there. This passage in John does not assert anything about God's corporeal nature or lack thereof. The Latter-day Saint belief that God is an embodied spirit is perfectly consistent with the passage in question and critics are in error to insist that the passage must be interpreted as "God is a disembodied spirit." | Critics read into the passage what is not there. This passage in John does not assert anything about God's corporeal nature or lack thereof. The Latter-day Saint belief that God is an embodied spirit is perfectly consistent with the passage in question and critics are in error to insist that the passage must be interpreted as "God is a disembodied spirit." | ||
− | ==Use or misuse by Church critics== | + | == Use or misuse by Church critics == |
This verse is used as a proof-text by critics of the LDS doctrine of the corporeal nature of God. Critics argue that this passage proves that God does not have a physical body. | This verse is used as a proof-text by critics of the LDS doctrine of the corporeal nature of God. Critics argue that this passage proves that God does not have a physical body. | ||
− | ==Commentary== | + | == Commentary == |
The context of this verse is that Jesus is explaining to a Samaritan woman how one must worship. Jesus teaches that the place of worship, whether Samaria or Jerusalem, is not important, but rather the ''way'' one worships. By teaching attributes of God, Jesus teaches how His children can and should relate to Him and worship Him. Latter-day Saints emphatically agree that God is indeed spirit, just as He is love {{b|1|Jn|1|5}}, light {{b|1|Jn|4|8}}, and a consuming fire {{b||Deuteronomy|4|24}}, but He is not ''only'' spirit, love, light, or fire. | The context of this verse is that Jesus is explaining to a Samaritan woman how one must worship. Jesus teaches that the place of worship, whether Samaria or Jerusalem, is not important, but rather the ''way'' one worships. By teaching attributes of God, Jesus teaches how His children can and should relate to Him and worship Him. Latter-day Saints emphatically agree that God is indeed spirit, just as He is love {{b|1|Jn|1|5}}, light {{b|1|Jn|4|8}}, and a consuming fire {{b||Deuteronomy|4|24}}, but He is not ''only'' spirit, love, light, or fire. | ||
Line 116: | Line 118: | ||
{{To learn more box:God: body}}{{blankline}} | {{To learn more box:God: body}}{{blankline}} | ||
− | =How is Isaiah 43:10 used as a proof-text by critics of the | + | = How is Isaiah 43:10 used as a proof-text by critics of the Church doctrines of humans' ability to become like God through Christ's atonement? = |
− | ==The context of this passage makes it clear that the issue being addressed is not one of general theology but rather a very specific and practical command to recognize YHWH as Israel's only god and the only god to be worshiped== | + | == The context of this passage makes it clear that the issue being addressed is not one of general theology but rather a very specific and practical command to recognize YHWH as Israel's only god and the only god to be worshiped == |
− | ==King James Version== | + | == King James Version == |
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
Line 126: | Line 128: | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
− | ==Other translation(s)== | + | == Other translation(s) == |
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
Line 132: | Line 134: | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
− | ==Use or misuse by Church critics== | + | == Use or misuse by Church critics == |
This verse is used as a proof-text by critics of the LDS doctrines of the plurality of gods and the deification of man. It is claimed that this verse proves that there never has been or ever will be another being who could properly be called a god. | This verse is used as a proof-text by critics of the LDS doctrines of the plurality of gods and the deification of man. It is claimed that this verse proves that there never has been or ever will be another being who could properly be called a god. | ||
− | ==Commentary== | + | == Commentary == |
This passage and other similar proof texts from the Hebrew scriptures are misused by critics. When read in context, it is clear that the intent of the passage is to differentiate YHWH from the foreign gods and idols in the cultures surrounding the Jews. | This passage and other similar proof texts from the Hebrew scriptures are misused by critics. When read in context, it is clear that the intent of the passage is to differentiate YHWH from the foreign gods and idols in the cultures surrounding the Jews. | ||
Line 152: | Line 154: | ||
In addition to misapplying this passage, critics also fail to recognize the growing body of evidence that shows that the Jewish religion was not strictly monotheistic until quite late in its development, certainly after the era in which Isaiah was written. When this evidence is considered, it appears that Judaism originally taught that though there are indeed other divine beings, some of whom are called gods, none of these are to be worshiped except for the God of gods who created all things and who revealed Himself to Moses. | In addition to misapplying this passage, critics also fail to recognize the growing body of evidence that shows that the Jewish religion was not strictly monotheistic until quite late in its development, certainly after the era in which Isaiah was written. When this evidence is considered, it appears that Judaism originally taught that though there are indeed other divine beings, some of whom are called gods, none of these are to be worshiped except for the God of gods who created all things and who revealed Himself to Moses. | ||
− | =How is Genesis 3:5 used by critics to attempt to show that the Mormon doctrine of deification is a teaching of Satan?= | + | = How is Genesis 3:5 used by critics to attempt to show that the Mormon doctrine of deification is a teaching of Satan? = |
− | ==The use of Genesis 3 to counter the doctrine of deification/theosis has two problems associated with it. The first is that Satan never claimed that Adam and Eve would be gods, just that they would be "as gods, knowing good and evil."== | + | == The use of Genesis 3 to counter the doctrine of deification/theosis has two problems associated with it. The first is that Satan never claimed that Adam and Eve would be gods, just that they would be "as gods, knowing good and evil." == |
{{ScriptureHeader}} | {{ScriptureHeader}} | ||
{{Parallel4|type1=KJV|text1=For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.<br>{{b||Genesis|3|5}}|type2=NASB|text2=For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.|type3=CEV|text3=God understands what will happen on the day you eat fruit from that tree. You will see what you have done, and you will know the difference between right and wrong, just as God does.|type4=BBE|text4=For God sees that on the day when you take of its fruit, your eyes will be open, and you will be as gods, having knowledge of good and evil.}} | {{Parallel4|type1=KJV|text1=For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.<br>{{b||Genesis|3|5}}|type2=NASB|text2=For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.|type3=CEV|text3=God understands what will happen on the day you eat fruit from that tree. You will see what you have done, and you will know the difference between right and wrong, just as God does.|type4=BBE|text4=For God sees that on the day when you take of its fruit, your eyes will be open, and you will be as gods, having knowledge of good and evil.}} | ||
− | ==Use or misuse by Church critics== | + | == Use or misuse by Church critics == |
This verse is used by critics to attempt to show that the LDS doctrine of deification is a teaching of Satan. | This verse is used by critics to attempt to show that the LDS doctrine of deification is a teaching of Satan. | ||
− | ==Commentary== | + | == Commentary == |
The critics seriously misunderstand and misinterpret this passage of scripture. | The critics seriously misunderstand and misinterpret this passage of scripture. | ||
Line 186: | Line 188: | ||
{{To learn more box:theosis}}{{blankline}} | {{To learn more box:theosis}}{{blankline}} | ||
+ | {{Endnotes sources}} | ||
<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE --> | <!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE --> | ||
[[Category:Questions]] | [[Category:Questions]] | ||
[[de:Mormonismus und die Natur Gottes/1. Korinther 15 und geistige Körper]] | [[de:Mormonismus und die Natur Gottes/1. Korinther 15 und geistige Körper]] | ||
− | |||
− | |||
− |
Scriptures of the Church of Jesus Christ |
|
Nature of scripture |
|
Interpretation of scripture |
|
Summary: The challenge of Latter-day Saint scripture and an open canon to the Christian world means that there is a long history of polemics targeted at the Church of Jesus Christ. These are well-worn "chestnuts" and standard biblical issues that are "asked and answered" for Latter-day Saints over nearly two centuries.
Jump to details:
When Latter-day Saints speak of God creating our "spirit bodies," we do not mean the glorified, physical "spiritual body" of the resurrected. We refer to God's role as our Heavenly Father before our mortal lives.
Biblical statements indicate that God is the father of our spirits and we were known to him before our birth (e.g., Jeremiah 1:5). This is a separate doctrine from the doctrine of a glorious resurrection, which is clearly Paul's topic.
It is unfortunate that critics find it necessary to distort and twist the clear meaning of scripture in an attempt to make the Latter-day Saints "offenders for a word."
In context, Paul is clearly talking about the physical resurrection from the dead. For example, earlier in the chapter he has written:
Paul clearly believes, then, that the physical body with which we die will be resurrected.
He then tells the Saints that:
The "spiritual body" to which Paul refers is the resurrected physical body which has been glorified.
The "natural" body is the weak, corruptible mortal body that is "sown in weakness." The "spiritual body" is the glorified, resurrected body "raised in power." But, this does not mean that it is not also a physical, or corporeal body—Paul has just spent several verses insisting upon the reality of Christ's resurrection, and using Him as a model for the resurrection of the Saints. And, clearly Jesus' body was tangible and physical following the resurrection:
Critical sources |
|
This is a FAIR Wiki scripture article. It discusses scriptures commonly used by those who attack the Church, as well as references to other FAIR Wiki articles that discuss the issues raised by the critics. For other scriptures, please see the Scripture index.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4꞉24
God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (NASB)
God is Spirit, and only by the power of his Spirit can people worship him as he really is." (TEV)
God is Spirit, and those who worship God must be led by the Spirit to worship him according to the truth. (CEV)
Critics read into the passage what is not there. This passage in John does not assert anything about God's corporeal nature or lack thereof. The Latter-day Saint belief that God is an embodied spirit is perfectly consistent with the passage in question and critics are in error to insist that the passage must be interpreted as "God is a disembodied spirit."
This verse is used as a proof-text by critics of the LDS doctrine of the corporeal nature of God. Critics argue that this passage proves that God does not have a physical body.
The context of this verse is that Jesus is explaining to a Samaritan woman how one must worship. Jesus teaches that the place of worship, whether Samaria or Jerusalem, is not important, but rather the way one worships. By teaching attributes of God, Jesus teaches how His children can and should relate to Him and worship Him. Latter-day Saints emphatically agree that God is indeed spirit, just as He is love 1 Jn 1:5, light 1 Jn 4:8, and a consuming fire Deuteronomy 4:24, but He is not only spirit, love, light, or fire.
The Greek language has no indefinite article ("a" or "an") and so the translator must decide whether to include that word in the English text. But for Latter-day Saints, the presence or absence of the article makes no difference. Latter-day Saints believe both that God is spirit (as an attribute) and that God is a spirit (as a statement of His nature). Similarly, Latter-day Saints believe that all people are also spirits, but spirits housed within a physical body.
In the chapter immediately preceding this scripture, in John 3:5-6 , Jesus says the following:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (NASB)
It is clear from the above verse that Jesus considered it entirely possible for a mortal human with a physical body to be spirit. Likewise, it is not inconsistent to believe that God the Father simultaneously has a physical body and "is spirit."
Online |
|
Print |
|
Navigators |
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43꞉10
"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. (NIV)
This verse is used as a proof-text by critics of the LDS doctrines of the plurality of gods and the deification of man. It is claimed that this verse proves that there never has been or ever will be another being who could properly be called a god.
This passage and other similar proof texts from the Hebrew scriptures are misused by critics. When read in context, it is clear that the intent of the passage is to differentiate YHWH from the foreign gods and idols in the cultures surrounding the Jews.
Verses 11 - 13 are a continuation of the statement by God:
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.
I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "that I am God.
Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?" (NIV)
The context of this passage makes it clear that the issue being addressed is not one of general theology but rather a very specific and practical command to recognize YHWH as Israel's only god and the only god to be worshiped.
In addition to misapplying this passage, critics also fail to recognize the growing body of evidence that shows that the Jewish religion was not strictly monotheistic until quite late in its development, certainly after the era in which Isaiah was written. When this evidence is considered, it appears that Judaism originally taught that though there are indeed other divine beings, some of whom are called gods, none of these are to be worshiped except for the God of gods who created all things and who revealed Himself to Moses.
This is a FAIR Wiki scripture article. It discusses scriptures commonly used by those who attack the Church, as well as references to other FAIR Wiki articles that discuss the issues raised by the critics. For other scriptures, please see the Scripture index.
|
|
|
|
This verse is used by critics to attempt to show that the LDS doctrine of deification is a teaching of Satan.
The critics seriously misunderstand and misinterpret this passage of scripture.
Note that the serpent makes two claims:
(1) "ye shall not surely die" and
(2) "ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
But if one looks forward to Genesis 3:22:
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:"
So the use of Genesis 3 to counter the doctrine of deification/theosis has two problems associated with it. The first is that Satan never claimed that Adam and Eve would be gods, just that they would be "as gods, knowing good and evil."
The second and bigger problem is that Satan was, in fact, telling the truth on this point. We know he was because after the event the Lord God confirms that Adam and Eve did indeed become as gods, knowing good and evil. As usual, Satan mixes lies and truth. In this case he said that Adam and Eve wouldn't die (a lie) but he also said that their eating would make them "as gods, knowing good and evil" (a truth).
So the lie of Satan in the Garden of Eden was that transgressing God's law would not bring death. This chapter isn't even relevant to beliefs about deification, and the text shows that the comment that was made wasn't a lie at all.
Satan didn't promise that Adam and Eve would become gods, and what Satan did say about becoming as gods was true.
Key sources |
|
|||
FAIR links |
||||
Online |
|
|||
Video |
|
|||
Print |
|
|||
Bibliography on human deification |
|
|||
Navigators |
Notes
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
We are a volunteer organization. We invite you to give back.
Donate Now