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+ | == Links to check == | ||
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{{Navigation:Brigham Young}} | {{Navigation:Brigham Young}} | ||
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The following fabricated quote has gained circulation on the web. The introductory phrase "I have never given counsel that is wrong" was indeed given by Brigham Young. (See: {{JDfairwiki|vol=16|disc=22|start=161}}) Unfortunately for those who wish to rely on it to score political or ideological points, the paragraph that follows is a complete fabrication: | The following fabricated quote has gained circulation on the web. The introductory phrase "I have never given counsel that is wrong" was indeed given by Brigham Young. (See: {{JDfairwiki|vol=16|disc=22|start=161}}) Unfortunately for those who wish to rely on it to score political or ideological points, the paragraph that follows is a complete fabrication: | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
− | < | + | <font color="FF0000">I have never given council that is wrong.</font> <font color="FF8000">I am a Prophet of God in this dispensation.</font> <font color="009900">I carry on the work that began with Joseph Smith.</font> <font color="009999">I led the Saints to the barren Salt Lake Valley and it is where we built Zion, even though Joseph Smith taught the Savior would return in Jackson County Missouri.</font> <font color="66B2FF">Monogamous marriage is not the order of heaven, for it is only through polygamy that a man may achieve exaltation.</font> <font color="6666FF">The government should stay out of the lives of the Saints and let us worship and practice our religion according to the dictates of our own conscience.</font> <font color="B266FF">If there ever comes a day when the Saints interfere with the rights of others to live as they see fit, you can know with assurance that the Church is no longer led by a Prophet, but a mere man.</font> <font color="FF66FF">The doctrines of this Church are eternal, for they were ordained before the world was and any man who changes these doctrines such as the temple ceremony, or the man who abandons polygamy, or allows blacks the Priesthood of God, is a fallen prophet.</font> |
− | I am Brother Brigham. And <font color=" | + | I am Brother Brigham. And <font color="FF66B2">I am the voice of God.</font> |
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
Ex-Mormon critics of the Church became excited about the quote and attempted to verify its source because it represented "an astounding batch of ammo if it is a true quote from B[righam] Y[oung]."<ref>Comment posted on the "Recovery from Mormonism" board by "MJ," October 07, 2010.</ref> On a different ex-Mormon board, one poster states that "I really, really want to post this quote tonight on my facebook wall, but I still am looking for a source," and that he "would really love for this quote to be a real B.Y. quote."<ref>Comments posted on "PostMormon.org" by "MyWife'sHusband," September 12, 2009.</ref> | Ex-Mormon critics of the Church became excited about the quote and attempted to verify its source because it represented "an astounding batch of ammo if it is a true quote from B[righam] Y[oung]."<ref>Comment posted on the "Recovery from Mormonism" board by "MJ," October 07, 2010.</ref> On a different ex-Mormon board, one poster states that "I really, really want to post this quote tonight on my facebook wall, but I still am looking for a source," and that he "would really love for this quote to be a real B.Y. quote."<ref>Comments posted on "PostMormon.org" by "MyWife'sHusband," September 12, 2009.</ref> | ||
− | + | We examine here the individual elements of the fabricated quote and provide responses to it. | |
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
|colorA=FF0000 | |colorA=FF0000 | ||
− | |colorB= | + | |colorB=FF0000 |
|claim = | |claim = | ||
− | "I | + | "I have never given council that is wrong." |
− | | | + | |realquote = |
− | + | XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX | |
+ | |response=Brigham's actual statement is at odds with the fabricated statement. | ||
}} | }} | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=FF8000 | ||
+ | |colorB=FF8000 | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"I am a Prophet of God in this dispensation." | "I am a Prophet of God in this dispensation." | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=009900 | ||
+ | |colorB=009900 | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"I carry on the work that began with Joseph Smith. " | "I carry on the work that began with Joseph Smith. " | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=009999 | ||
+ | |colorB=009999 | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"I led the Saints to the barren Salt Lake Valley and it is where we built Zion, even though Joseph Smith taught the Savior would return in Jackson County Missouri." | "I led the Saints to the barren Salt Lake Valley and it is where we built Zion, even though Joseph Smith taught the Savior would return in Jackson County Missouri." | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=66B2FF | ||
+ | |colorB=66B2FF | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"Monogamous marriage is not the order of heaven, for it is only through polygamy that a man may achieve exaltation." | "Monogamous marriage is not the order of heaven, for it is only through polygamy that a man may achieve exaltation." | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=6666FF | ||
+ | |colorB=6666FF | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"The government should stay out of the lives of the Saints and let us worship and practice our religion according to the dictates of our own conscience." | "The government should stay out of the lives of the Saints and let us worship and practice our religion according to the dictates of our own conscience." | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=B266FF | ||
+ | |colorB=B266FF | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"If there ever comes a day when the Saints interfere with the rights of others to live as they see fit, you can know with assurance that the Church is no longer led by a Prophet, but a mere man." | "If there ever comes a day when the Saints interfere with the rights of others to live as they see fit, you can know with assurance that the Church is no longer led by a Prophet, but a mere man." | ||
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{{BrighamClaim | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=FF66FF | ||
+ | |colorB=FF66FF | ||
|claim = | |claim = | ||
"The doctrines of this Church are eternal, for they were ordained before the world was and any man who changes these doctrines such as the temple ceremony, or the man who abandons polygamy, or allows blacks the Priesthood of God, is a fallen prophet." | "The doctrines of this Church are eternal, for they were ordained before the world was and any man who changes these doctrines such as the temple ceremony, or the man who abandons polygamy, or allows blacks the Priesthood of God, is a fallen prophet." | ||
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}} | }} | ||
+ | {{BrighamClaim | ||
+ | |colorA=FF66B2 | ||
+ | |colorB=FF66B2 | ||
+ | |claim = | ||
+ | "I am the voice of God" | ||
+ | |response = | ||
+ | *This fabricated quote is based upon another fabricated quote from the movie [[Specific works/September Dawn|September Dawn]]. In September Dawn, a movie about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, an actor portraying Brigham says, ""I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down. God has revealed to me that I have the right and the power to call down curses on anyone who tries to invade our lands. Therefore, I curse the gentiles." This quote is fabricated—Brigham never said this. | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | |||
+ | = Did Brigham Young say "I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down"? = | ||
+ | == FAIR has been unable to find a legitimate source for this purported quotation from Brigham Young == | ||
+ | |||
+ | The movie [[Specific works/September Dawn|September Dawn]] claims that Brigham Young made the following statement: | ||
+ | <blockquote> | ||
+ | I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down. God has revealed to me that I have the right and the power to call down curses on anyone who tries to invade our lands. Therefore, I curse the gentiles. | ||
+ | </blockquote> | ||
+ | |||
+ | FAIR has been unable to find a legitimate source for this purported quotation from Brigham Young. The words are spoken by an actor portraying Brigham Young in the movie September Dawn, an account of the Mountain Meadows massacre. This exact statement has not been attributed to a known source, and may be a paraphrase of a statement made by Young on March 2, 1856: | ||
+ | <blockquote> | ||
+ | "The time is coming when justice will be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet; when we shall take the old broad sword and ask, "Are you for God?" and if you are not heartily on the Lord's side, you will be hewn down." ({{JDfairwiki|vol=3|disc=30|start=226}}) | ||
+ | </blockquote> | ||
+ | |||
+ | == The "I am a prophet of God" fake quote is a conflation of things that Brigham discussed, with a negative spin == | ||
+ | |||
+ | == Here is the real "I have never given counsel that is wrong" quote == | ||
+ | |||
+ | Here is what Brigham actually said: | ||
+ | <blockquote> | ||
+ | I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life. I am here to answer; I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that <span style="color:blue">I have never given counsel that is wrong</span>; this is the reason. This people, called Latter-day Saints, have been laboring now over forty years. <ref>{{JDfairwiki|vol=16|disc=22|start=161}}</ref> | ||
+ | </blockquote> | ||
= Did Brigham Young say "I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down"? = | = Did Brigham Young say "I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down"? = |
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The following fabricated quote has gained circulation on the web. The introductory phrase "I have never given counsel that is wrong" was indeed given by Brigham Young. (See: Journal of Discourses 16:161.) Unfortunately for those who wish to rely on it to score political or ideological points, the paragraph that follows is a complete fabrication:
I have never given council that is wrong. I am a Prophet of God in this dispensation. I carry on the work that began with Joseph Smith. I led the Saints to the barren Salt Lake Valley and it is where we built Zion, even though Joseph Smith taught the Savior would return in Jackson County Missouri. Monogamous marriage is not the order of heaven, for it is only through polygamy that a man may achieve exaltation. The government should stay out of the lives of the Saints and let us worship and practice our religion according to the dictates of our own conscience. If there ever comes a day when the Saints interfere with the rights of others to live as they see fit, you can know with assurance that the Church is no longer led by a Prophet, but a mere man. The doctrines of this Church are eternal, for they were ordained before the world was and any man who changes these doctrines such as the temple ceremony, or the man who abandons polygamy, or allows blacks the Priesthood of God, is a fallen prophet.
I am Brother Brigham. And I am the voice of God.
Ex-Mormon critics of the Church became excited about the quote and attempted to verify its source because it represented "an astounding batch of ammo if it is a true quote from B[righam] Y[oung]."[1] On a different ex-Mormon board, one poster states that "I really, really want to post this quote tonight on my facebook wall, but I still am looking for a source," and that he "would really love for this quote to be a real B.Y. quote."[2]
We examine here the individual elements of the fabricated quote and provide responses to it.
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"I have never given council that is wrong."
What Brigham actually said:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Response
Brigham's actual statement is at odds with the fabricated statement.
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"I am a Prophet of God in this dispensation."
What Brigham actually said:
"I have never particularly desired any man to testify publicly that I am a Prophet; nevertheless, if any man feels joy, in doing this, he shall be blest in it. I have never said that I am not a Prophet; but, if I am not, one thing is certain, I have been very profitable to this people."[3]
Response
Brigham's actual statement is at odds with the fabricated statement.
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"I carry on the work that began with Joseph Smith. "
What Brigham actually said:
"to carry on the work of God..." [4]
Response
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"I led the Saints to the barren Salt Lake Valley and it is where we built Zion, even though Joseph Smith taught the Savior would return in Jackson County Missouri."
Response
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"Monogamous marriage is not the order of heaven, for it is only through polygamy that a man may achieve exaltation."
What Brigham actually said:
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy"[5]
Response
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"The government should stay out of the lives of the Saints and let us worship and practice our religion according to the dictates of our own conscience."
Response
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"If there ever comes a day when the Saints interfere with the rights of others to live as they see fit, you can know with assurance that the Church is no longer led by a Prophet, but a mere man."
Response
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"The doctrines of this Church are eternal, for they were ordained before the world was and any man who changes these doctrines such as the temple ceremony, or the man who abandons polygamy, or allows blacks the Priesthood of God, is a fallen prophet."
Response
The following quote cannot be located in any of the writings or sermons given by Brigham Young. Brigham Young is claimed to have said:
"I am the voice of God"
Response
The movie September Dawn claims that Brigham Young made the following statement:
I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down. God has revealed to me that I have the right and the power to call down curses on anyone who tries to invade our lands. Therefore, I curse the gentiles.
FAIR has been unable to find a legitimate source for this purported quotation from Brigham Young. The words are spoken by an actor portraying Brigham Young in the movie September Dawn, an account of the Mountain Meadows massacre. This exact statement has not been attributed to a known source, and may be a paraphrase of a statement made by Young on March 2, 1856:
"The time is coming when justice will be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet; when we shall take the old broad sword and ask, "Are you for God?" and if you are not heartily on the Lord's side, you will be hewn down." (Journal of Discourses 3:226.)
Here is what Brigham actually said:
I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life. I am here to answer; I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason. This people, called Latter-day Saints, have been laboring now over forty years. [8]
The movie September Dawn claims that Brigham Young made the following statement:
I am the voice of God and anyone who doesn't like it will be hewn down. God has revealed to me that I have the right and the power to call down curses on anyone who tries to invade our lands. Therefore, I curse the gentiles.
FAIR has been unable to find a legitimate source for this purported quotation from Brigham Young. The words are spoken by an actor portraying Brigham Young in the movie September Dawn, an account of the Mountain Meadows massacre. This exact statement has not been attributed to a known source, and may be a paraphrase of a statement made by Young on March 2, 1856:
"The time is coming when justice will be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet; when we shall take the old broad sword and ask, "Are you for God?" and if you are not heartily on the Lord's side, you will be hewn down." (Journal of Discourses 3:226.)
It is rumored that Brigham Young made the following statement:
We shall pull the wool over the eyes of the American people and make them swallow Mormonism, polygamy and all."
Critics say this shows the fundamental dishonesty of LDS leaders. [9]
As far as we can determine, this quotation is a complete fabrication. We cannot locate it in any LDS source, and those non-LDS sources who provide a reference are in error.
If any reader has further information, please contact us. At present, however, the best assumption seems to be that the quote is a fabrication.
FAIR has been unable to find a legitimate source for this purported quotation from Brigham Young. It was quoted at the Reed Smoot hearing report, but the source is only given as E.A. Folk, editor of the Baptist and Reflector, a Nashville, Tennessee paper published by the Tennessee Baptist association.[10]
A citation generally given for Brigham Young's remarks is from the Church's English publication: "The Manifesto," Millennial Star 52 (24 Nov. 1890): 744.
However, an examination of this reference shows no sign of the quote in question—see PDF scan of the original here.
Later authors have continued to repeat the "quotation" from Brigham, and provide the citation to the E.A. Folk's The Story of Mormonism, or the Millenial Star in their footnotes. However, these authors do not seem to have verified the original. They are likely simply repeating the claim from previous authors without checking:
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