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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Denver Snuffer/Doctrinal claims"
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|sublink1="At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" | |sublink1="At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" | ||
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| − | + | ===Accusing First Presidency of transgression=== | |
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| + | ===Priesthood authority not necessary=== | ||
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| − | + | ===Other doctrinal claims=== | |
* '''[[#"Deviated" from proper wording for baptism|Response to claim: "Deviated" from proper wording for baptism]]''' | * '''[[#"Deviated" from proper wording for baptism|Response to claim: "Deviated" from proper wording for baptism]]''' | ||
* '''[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Denver Snuffer/Doctrinal claims#"Tithing is for the poor"|Response to claim: "Tithing is for the poor"]]''' | * '''[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Denver Snuffer/Doctrinal claims#"Tithing is for the poor"|Response to claim: "Tithing is for the poor"]]''' | ||
Revision as of 11:32, 20 September 2014
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 A FairMormon Analysis of Denver Snuffer's Online Claims: Doctrinal claims
- 1.1 Overview
- 1.2 Quick Navigation
- 1.3 "Deviated" from proper wording for baptism
- 1.4 Denver Snuffer claim: "When I was baptized into the LDS Church, the baptismal prayer was, "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father..." When I was rebaptized, I was rebaptized by one who had authority from Christ, therefore, in that baptisms the words were, "Having authority given me of Jesus Christ…" If all you are going to do is baptize someone again according to the LDS pattern, with the commission in the Church, do not bother doing it. But if you follow these principles, and if the Spirit empowers you to baptize, then baptize having authority from Christ and follow His words. We have deviated long enough. It is time to return."[1]
- 1.5 FairMormon Response
- 1.6 Question: Have Mormons deviated from proper wording for the baptismal prayer?
- 1.7 "Tithing is for the poor"
- 1.8 Denver Snuffer claim: "Tithing is for the poor."[5]
- 1.9 FairMormon Response
- 1.10
A FairMormon Analysis of Denver Snuffer's Online Claims: Doctrinal claims
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Overview
Church has lost priesthood authority
Church has lost priesthood authority
Accusing First Presidency of transgression
Church has lost priesthood authority
Priesthood authority not necessary
Priesthood authority not necessary
Other doctrinal claims
- Response to claim: "Deviated" from proper wording for baptism
- Response to claim: "Tithing is for the poor"
"Deviated" from proper wording for baptism
Denver Snuffer claim:
"When I was baptized into the LDS Church, the baptismal prayer was, "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father..." When I was rebaptized, I was rebaptized by one who had authority from Christ, therefore, in that baptisms the words were, "Having authority given me of Jesus Christ…" If all you are going to do is baptize someone again according to the LDS pattern, with the commission in the Church, do not bother doing it. But if you follow these principles, and if the Spirit empowers you to baptize, then baptize having authority from Christ and follow His words. We have deviated long enough. It is time to return."[1]
FairMormon Response
Question: Have Mormons deviated from proper wording for the baptismal prayer?
In the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith changed the wording to the modern form we know well
Some excommunicated members claim the Church is in error, or is performing invalid baptisms, because the baptismal prayer in 3 Nephi is not used with precisely the same wording [2]:
Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen (3 Nephi 11꞉25, italics added).
Instead, the following wording is used:
Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen (D&C 20꞉73, italics added).
It is true that the wording differs slightly. In the 1833 Book of Commandments (a precursor to the Doctrine and Covenants) the wording given was:
Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.[3]
However, in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith changed the wording to the modern form we know well.
Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.[4]
The Church has not, therefore, deviated from something taught by Joseph. Instead, Joseph made the change and the Church has followed it ever since. Those who claim that the Church has "forgotten" what God has commanded ignore the fact that Joseph was the prophet, and he was authorized to adjust the method by which ordinances are performed.
The Church has remained true to Joseph's instructions; fundamentalists ignore Joseph's teachings, demonstrating that they do not sustain a living prophet delivering on-going revelation to the Church.
Snuffer claims to sustain Joseph Smith, but claims that Joseph's instructions about the prayer were a "deviation" that he (Snuffer) is now to set right.
"Tithing is for the poor"
Denver Snuffer claim:
"Tithing is for the poor."[5]
FairMormon Response
- REDIRECT Question: Why does the church spend so much money on temples when children are dying of starvation?
Notes
- ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 16. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration
- ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 16. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration
- ↑ Book of Commandments (Zion: W.W. Phelps & Co., 1833), 24:53.
- ↑ Doctrine and Covenants (Kirtland, Ohio: F.G. Williams & Co., 1835), 2:22.
- ↑ Denver Snuffer, "Preserving The Restoration," Lecture 10, Mesa, Arizona (9 September 2014), 30. https://www.scribd.com/doc/239760895/10-Phoenix-Transcript-Preserving-the-Restoration