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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 14"
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*[[Joseph Smith/Prophecies/Joseph Smith prophesied the Second Coming to be in 1890|Second Coming to be in 1890?]] | *[[Joseph Smith/Prophecies/Joseph Smith prophesied the Second Coming to be in 1890|Second Coming to be in 1890?]] | ||
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*History of the Church, vol. 2, 182. | *History of the Church, vol. 2, 182. | ||
*History of the Church, vol. 5, 324, 336. | *History of the Church, vol. 5, 324, 336. | ||
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====320, 588n40 (PB)==== | ====320, 588n40 (PB)==== | ||
{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
Revision as of 19:50, 3 December 2014
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 Response to claims made in "Chapter 14: The Politics of Compromise"
- 1.3 Claim
- George Q. Cannon said “I have taken plural wives, who now live with me, and have so lived with me for a number of years and borne me children…as a teacher of my religion in Utah territory, I have defended said tenet of said church as being in my belief a revelation of God.”
- Author's quote: Such admissions, rather than coming from any sincere desire on Cannon’s part to be forthright, likely resulted from the excessive publicity engendered by the controversy.
- Was the First Presidency statement “They who fight against Zion shall be destroyed; and the pit which has been digged shall be filled by those who digged it" contrary to the command in DC 58꞉21 to obey the laws of the land?
- Why did LDS leaders hide in Europe, Canada and Mexico to avoid prosecution for polygamy?
- Did John Taylor receive a revelation on September 27, 1886 that promised that “polygamy would never be abandoned?”
- Did Wilford Woodruff receive a revelation that indicated that polygamy was “absolutely essential to godhood" and promise that anyone who hindered plural marriage would be "damned?"
- Why did Brigham say that “[t]he only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy?”
- 1.8.1 319, 588n35-36(PB) - Did Joseph Smith promise in 1835 that most of the Saints then living would see Jesus’ return by 1890?
- 1.8.2 The author(s) of One Nation Under Gods make(s) the following claim:
- Did Wilford Woodruff demolish the Church’s Endowment House in response to agreement with the U.S. to “cease practicing plural marriage?”
- Did Wilford Woodruff receive a revelation on November 24, 1889 the said that the Church would prevail against the Government effort to seize the Church's assets?
- Author's quote: "Despite Christ's assurances that the ruling would favor the Saints, May 19, 1890, saw a five to four decision by the Supreme Court to uphold the government's right to close the LDS church, seize its property, and redistribute it."
- Was the Manifesto a revelation? Wasn't it re-written and edited many times before it was released?
- Did the Manifesto included "blatantly false statements" since over 200 plural marriages were performed after the Manifesto was issued?
- Why did Brigham Young say "I live above the law, and so do this people?"
- Did "countless" plural marriages occur in Utah, Canada, and Mexico after the Manifesto, as the author claims?
- Did Wilford Woodruff's testimony before the Federal Master-in-Chancery, Charles Loofbourow constitute perjury?
- Author's quote: "Lying, either to bring about a 'greater good' or to protect the church, has always been an acceptable practice within Mormonism, and continues to be an unspoken tenet of the faith."
- Did Joseph F. Smith defy the Manifesto by saying:
- Did polygamy continue to "thrive" when Lorenzo Snow became Church president in 1898?
- The endnote states the Snow said during his trial: "Though I go to prison, God will not change his law of celestial marriage. But the man, the people, the nation that oppose and fight against this doctrine and the Church of God, will be overthrown."
- Did Joseph F. Smith take additional polygamous wives himself after the Manifesto, and enourage at least 63 others to do so as well?
- Author's quote: "These were but a small portion of the documented 262 post-Manifesto marriages between October 1890 and December 1910 involving 22 different Mormon men."
- Author's quote: "[Joseph F.] Smith, of course, like every other LDS president before him, would continue utilizing cunning prevarications to conceal his personal activities and anything else that might embarrass the church."
Response to claims made in "Chapter 14: The Politics of Compromise"
| Claims made in "Chapter 13: Unholy Matrimony" | A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
Claims made in "Chapter 15: Making the Transition" |
Lying, either to bring about a 'greater good' or to protect the church, has always been an acceptable practice within Mormonism, and continues to be an unspoken tenet of the faith.
—One Nation Under Gods, p. 326.
313
Claim
- Author's quote: "...prosecuting polygamy would be virtually impossible given Mormon leadership’s willingness to lie under oath."
Author's source(s) - Supreme Court Case Miles v. the United States
- The United States had no difficulty prosecuting polygamy under the Edmunds-Tucker legislation. Many members of the Church admitted their plural marriages, and went to prison as a result.
- Loaded and prejudicial language
313, 585n10 (PB)
Claim
- George Q. Cannon said “I have taken plural wives, who now live with me, and have so lived with me for a number of years and borne me children…as a teacher of my religion in Utah territory, I have defended said tenet of said church as being in my belief a revelation of God.”
- Author's quote: Such admissions, rather than coming from any sincere desire on Cannon’s part to be forthright, likely resulted from the excessive publicity engendered by the controversy.
Author's source(s) - House Misc. Doc. 49 (43-1), 1873, Serial 1617, 5.
315, 585n12 (PB)
Claim
- Was the First Presidency statement “They who fight against Zion shall be destroyed; and the pit which has been digged shall be filled by those who digged it" contrary to the command in DC 58꞉21 to obey the laws of the land?
Author's source(s) - First Presidency (John Taylor, George Q. Cannon, and Joseph F. Smith). Quoted in James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, 5 volumes, cited in Samuel W. Taylor, Rocky Mountain Empire, 13.
- LDS doctrine endorses the civil law, but does not grant the civil law supremacy over conscience or religious conviction.
- Illegality and civil disobedience (non-wiki)
315
Claim
- Why did LDS leaders hide in Europe, Canada and Mexico to avoid prosecution for polygamy?
Author's source(s) - No source provided
- Illegality and civil disobedience (non-wiki)
316, 587n15 (HB) 585n15 (PB)
Claim
- Did John Taylor receive a revelation on September 27, 1886 that promised that “polygamy would never be abandoned?”
Author's source(s) - Fred C. Collier, Unpublished Revelations, vol. 1, 145-146, 180-183.
- Misrepresentation of source: John Taylor 27 September 1886 revelation
317, 588n20 (HB) 586n20 (PB)
Claim
- Did Wilford Woodruff receive a revelation that indicated that polygamy was “absolutely essential to godhood" and promise that anyone who hindered plural marriage would be "damned?"
Author's source(s) - Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, 9 vols., ed., Scott G. Kenny (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1985), 7:546, 615-617, 621 (journal entry dated January 26, 1880). ISBN 0941214133.
317, 587n25 (PB)
Claim
- Why did Brigham say that “[t]he only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy?”
Author's source(s) - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269.
- Misrepresentation of source:Polygamy/The only men who become gods are those that practice polygamy
319, 588n35-36(PB) - Did Joseph Smith promise in 1835 that most of the Saints then living would see Jesus’ return by 1890?
The author(s) of One Nation Under Gods make(s) the following claim:
Did Joseph Smith promise in 1835 that most of the Saints then living would see Jesus’ return by 1890?Author's sources:
- History of the Church, vol. 2, 182.
- History of the Church, vol. 5, 324, 336.
FAIR's Response
320, 588n40 (PB)
Claim
- Did Wilford Woodruff demolish the Church’s Endowment House in response to agreement with the U.S. to “cease practicing plural marriage?”
Author's source(s) - Samuel Taylor, 19.
- History unclear or in error: Demolish Endowment House?
323, 588n48 (PB)
Claim
- Did Wilford Woodruff receive a revelation on November 24, 1889 the said that the Church would prevail against the Government effort to seize the Church's assets?
- Author's quote: "Despite Christ's assurances that the ruling would favor the Saints, May 19, 1890, saw a five to four decision by the Supreme Court to uphold the government's right to close the LDS church, seize its property, and redistribute it."
Author's source(s) - Samuel Taylor, 19.
- The author's claim is false: Wilford Woodruff 1889 revelation
- Sarcasm
323, 589n51-52 (PB)
Claim
- Was the Manifesto a revelation? Wasn't it re-written and edited many times before it was released?
Author's source(s) - Joseph F. Smith, letter to Sarah E. Smith, September 24, 1890, Joseph F. Smith Papers (Letterbook). Quoted in Edward Leo Lyman, Political Deliverance, 138.
- That's why it is labeled "The Manifesto" and not included in the D&C as a revelation. Pres. Woodruff insisted that he had "been struggling all night with the Lord about what should be done under the existing circumstances of the Church. And [a draft of the Manifesto] is the result."
- Writing the Manifesto (non-wiki)
324-325, 589n53 (PB)
Claim
- Did the Manifesto included "blatantly false statements" since over 200 plural marriages were performed after the Manifesto was issued?
Author's source(s) - Doctrine and Covenants-Manifesto
- B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant: The Mormon Polygamous Passage, 394ff.
- Internal contradiction: On p. 325, the author tells us that "countless" post-Manifesto marriages were performed. Yet, the best evidence suggests the number is 262. See also p. 328.
- The Manifesto stated only that it was Pres. Woodruff's "intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise."
- The Manifesto and its implementation (non-wiki)
- Lying after the Manifesto? (non-wiki)
325, 591n54 (HB) 589n54 (PB)
Claim
- Why did Brigham Young say "I live above the law, and so do this people?"
Author's source(s) - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:361.
325, 589n55 (PB)
Claim
- Did "countless" plural marriages occur in Utah, Canada, and Mexico after the Manifesto, as the author claims?
Author's source(s) - Joseph F. Smith, letter to Reed Smoot, April 1, 1911, Reed Smoot Correspondence. (The first letter mentions Canada and Mexico)
- George Gibbs, letter to Reed Smoot, April 12, 1911, Reed Smoot Correspondence. (The second letter states that inclusion of Canada was a mistake)
- Internal contradiction: On p. 324-325, the author tells us that "over two hundred" post-Manifesto marriages were performed. On p. 328 we learn about 262 known marriages. How does this become "countless"?
- The first of two letters referenced by the author mention Canada and Mexico, with the second letter stating that "Smith's inclusion of Canada in the telegram was a mistake." The author further states regarding the second letter that removes Canada that "the certainty of this claim is questionable since no record exists of Smith correcting himself."
- How does the author convert this to "countless" plural marriages in "Utah, Canada and Mexico?"
325, 590n56-57 (PB)
Claim
- Did Wilford Woodruff's testimony before the Federal Master-in-Chancery, Charles Loofbourow constitute perjury?
Author's source(s) - J. Reuben Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, vol. 3, 230-231.
- Wilford Woodruff testimony. Quoted in Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 149-150.
326, 590n58-59 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "Lying, either to bring about a 'greater good' or to protect the church, has always been an acceptable practice within Mormonism, and continues to be an unspoken tenet of the faith."
Author's source(s) - Matthias F. Cowley, minutes of Council of the Council of the Twelve, May 10, 1911. Quoted in Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 151.
- Abraham H. Cannon. Quoted in Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 150.
- D. Michael Quinn, "LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890-1904," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, vol. 18, no. 1, 61.
- Lying for the Lord?
- Lying for the Lord (non-wiki)
- Revelatory integrity of the Church (non-wiki)
- Loaded and prejudicial language
326, 590n60 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph F. Smith defy the Manifesto by saying:
"Take care of your polygamous wives; we don't care for Uncle Sam now."
"Take care of your polygamous wives; we don't care for Uncle Sam now."
Author's source(s)
- Joseph F. Smith. Quoted in William Edward Biederwolf, Mormonism Under the Searchlight, 65.
Response
- The author fails to tell us that the leaders of the Church did not intend to have men abandon their wives and children. The government insisted that they had to abandon these families. Most members thus persisted in civil disobedience, refusing to leave wives they had married and children they had fathered in good faith without support.
- Refusal to abandon plural families (non-wiki)
327, 590n62 (PB)
Claim
- Did polygamy continue to "thrive" when Lorenzo Snow became Church president in 1898?
- The endnote states the Snow said during his trial: "Though I go to prison, God will not change his law of celestial marriage. But the man, the people, the nation that oppose and fight against this doctrine and the Church of God, will be overthrown."
Author's source(s) - Andrew Jenson, "Lorenzo Snow," HR, February 1887, vol. 6, no. 2, 144.
- How does Lorenzo Snow serving jail time and making a statement 13 years before he became President of the Church prove that "polygamy continued to thrive?"
- Lorenzo Snow's administration (non-wiki)
328, 591n66 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph F. Smith take additional polygamous wives himself after the Manifesto, and enourage at least 63 others to do so as well?
Author's source(s) - Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 159.
- Joseph F. Smith's administration (non-wiki)
328, 591n67 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "These were but a small portion of the documented 262 post-Manifesto marriages between October 1890 and December 1910 involving 22 different Mormon men."
Author's source(s) - Hardy, 389-425.
- D. Michael Quinn, "Plural Marriages After The 1890 Manifesto," lecture delivered August 1991 at Bluffdale, Utah. (The author includes a lengthy excerpt from this speech in the endnote.)
- Internal contradiction: On p. 325, the author tells us that "countless" post-Manifesto marriages were performed. Yet, the best evidence suggests the number is 262. See also p. 324-325.
328
Claim
- Author's quote: "[Joseph F.] Smith, of course, like every other LDS president before him, would continue utilizing cunning prevarications to conceal his personal activities and anything else that might embarrass the church."
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
- President Smith was frank about his own actions; he preferred to sacrifice himself for the Church. See p. 339 in next chapter for more details.
- Joseph F. Smith administration (non-wiki)
- Loaded and prejudicial language
Further reading
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|---|---|---|
| {{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
| {{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
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