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| + | #REDIRECT [[Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Conflicts with Science]] |
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| − | {{FAIRAnalysisHeader
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| − | |title=[[../|MormonThink]]
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| − | |author=Anonymous
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| − | |section=Conflicts with Science
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| − | ==A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "Conflicts with Science"==
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| − | {{Website response summary}}
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| − | The positions that this MormonThink article appears to take are the following:
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| − | *
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| − | {{Website response label}}
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=The leaders of the church, as well as gospel doctrine teachers the world over, have taught that many Biblical events and beliefs that people have had for centuries are indeed true, historical events.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=The LDS church teaches that the flood of Noah was a literal global and worldwide event, and that the flood was the Earth's baptism...."we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets."
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| − | January 1998 Ensign, The Flood and the Tower of Babel, Donald W. Parry
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| − | Our comment: How much clearer can you get? The Ensign article makes it extremely clear what the LDS position is on Noah and the Flood. [The Ensign articles are all approved by the First presidency and almost considered scripture.]
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| − | |think=
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| − | *The ''Ensign'' article simply means that Donald W. Parry believes in a global flood, and this is what is taught in Church.
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| − | *If everything in the ''Ensign'' were "almost considered scripture," then one would be required to accept John Sorenson's 1984 articles on a limited Book of Mormon geography, despite the fact that most Church members believe in a hemispheric geography.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=Even the LDS apologists admit that the church clearly teaches that story of Noah was a real event and it was a global flood:
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| − | Without a doubt, the flood is always treated as global event as it is taught by Church leaders. This is not likely to ever change, since it is based directly upon a straightforward reading of the scriptures.
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| − | *{{antispeak|admit}}
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| − | *It is correct that this is likely never to change, since a belief in either a global or local flood does not alter the teaching that Noah was an actual prophet who saved his family from a catastrophic flood that wiped out all those with whom he associated.
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| − | *The accumulation of additional scientific information have led some to conclude that a local flood — one limited to the area in which Noah lived — is the best explanation of the available data. People of either view, or neither, can be members in good standing.
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| − | *Like other Christians, Latter-day Saints can hold different views on the issue of whether Noah's flood was local or global. Members of any given LDS congregation may have of a variety of points of view, and many have no firm opinion one way or the other.
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| − | *A belief in either a global or local flood is not a requirement for Latter-day Saints; traditionally, many earlier members and leaders endorsed the global flood views common in society and Christendom generally.
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| − | |link=Mormonism and science/Global or local Flood
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| − | |subject=Global or local Flood
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| − | |summary=How do we deal with the fact that there is no scientific evidence of a worldwide flood? How can the scriptures and prophets teach of a worldwide flood, when this contradicts the evidence? The biodiversity of plants and animals on the earth could not have occurred within the span of a few thousand years. Did the continents separate during the flood of Noah? Doctrine and Covenants 133:23–24 seems to imply that they did. How do we reconcile this to scientific fact? Didn't Brigham Young, John Taylor and Orson Pratt teach that the Flood was the baptism of the Earth?
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=[A] brief summary of problems with the Global Flood: 1. Ice. 2. Genetic Diversity. 3. Worldwide distribution of species. 4. Fish and coral. 5. No room on the ark. 6. No geological record. 7.Where did the water go? 8. How did the carnivores survive? ....Critic's comment: The idea of a universal flood simply does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny. How can an honest person deny his/her God-given intelligence and seriously believe in such an obvious myth? And setting aside the impossibilities of Noah's tale for a minute, are we really to believe that every single inhabitant of the earth (save 8 people) were all so absolutely wicked, including the children, that they all deserved to be killed? And who would want to worship a God anyway that would murder all but 8 of his children on earth because they had grown too wicked?
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| − | |think=
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| − | *{{antispeak|mutually exclusive}} Pay close attention to this bizarre contradiction: "How can an honest person deny his/her '''God-given intelligence and seriously believe''' in such an obvious myth?...And '''who would want to worship a God''' anyway that would murder all but 8 of his children..." The critic argues that you must by denying your "God-given" intelligence if you believe in God!
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| − | *{{antispeak|sarcasm}} The argument "who would want to worship a God...that would murder..." isn't an argument against Latter-day Saints, but against a belief in any sort of supreme being. The critics simply don't want you to believe in God at all.
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| − | *{{antispeak|honest}} The critic implies that the believer is dishonest for believing in the Bible.
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| − | *We agree that the evidence is against a worldwide flood, which is why some believe that the flood was local in scope.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=Implausibility of the Tower of Babel
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| − | Languages are continuously evolving over long periods of time, do not diversify suddenly, and can be traced back at least 12,000 years, which pre-dates the Tower of Babel.
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| − | Divergent traditions are also revealed when we consider the bizarre editing surrounding the story of the Tower of Babel. First the peoples of the earth are described, with their various foreign languages.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=Implausibility of Sun getting its light from Kolob
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=Implausibility of no death before the Fall
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| − | The fossils of animals and plants that have lived and died on this earth are thousands and millions of years old. From ancient dead animals and plants, it takes millions of years for oil and coal to form.
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim=Age of the Earth. D&C Sec.77:6 (emphasis added)
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| − | Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
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| − | A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during theseven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.
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| − | Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
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| − | A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first
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| − | thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on
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| − | until the seventh.
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| − | -- Joseph Smith, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 77 (1832)
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| − | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim
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| − | |claim= the quotes given above by the prophets since Joseph Smith's time show that the LDS Church clearly taught that the earth was only thousands of years old instead of billions of years old for all of the 19th century and much of the 20th century. The quotes in the Doctrine & Covenants are canonized scripture and cannot be discarded so casually as many LDS apologists like to do. Many gospel doctrine teachers still teach that the earth isn't nearly as old as scientists say.
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| − | |claim=Belief in Evolution
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| − | |claim=From the FAIR apologists
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| − | Like the FARMS apologists, the FAIR apologists also seem to be at odds with the church teachings. Most FAIR apologists accept the data supported by science to agree that there was no global flood. Our response to FAIR: You could probably believe whatever you want about anything taught in the LDS Church and they are not going to kick you out of the church. Of course believing in the story of Noah isn't one of the temple recommend interview questions. That isn't the issue. It also doesn't doesn't mean you can dismiss the huge problems this creates for the church if the story of Noah and a global flood isn't true as the church teaches.
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