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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15"
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| − | {{ | + | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15 |
| − | | | + | |H=Response to claims made in Chapter 15: "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877" |
| − | | | + | |S= |
| − | | | + | |L1= |
| − | | | + | |T=[[../../|American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows]] |
| − | | | + | |A=Sally Denton |
| − | | | + | |<=[[../Chapter 14|Chapter 14]] |
| − | + | |>=[[../Chapter 16|Chapter 16]] | |
}} | }} | ||
| + | [[File:Chart AM chapter 15.png|center|frame]] | ||
| + | <onlyinclude> | ||
| + | {{H2 | ||
| + | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15 | ||
| + | |H=Response to claims made in American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, "Chapter 15: Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877" | ||
| + | |S= | ||
| + | |L1=Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate" | ||
| + | |L2=Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away" | ||
| + | |L3=Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm" | ||
| + | |L4=Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime | ||
| + | |L5=Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins" | ||
| + | |L6=Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..." | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | </onlyinclude> | ||
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"== |
| − | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
| − | = | + | |title=American Massacre |
| − | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate." | The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate." | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources=<br> |
| − | + | #No source given. | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{disinformation|In ''modern'' usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint. <ref>The modern usage of "jack mormon" can be seen in the user-edited [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jack%20mormon Urban Dictionary] (accessed 17 June 2009). See also Pat Bagley, "'Jack Mormon' once meant something else" ''Salt Lake Tribune'' (13 January 2008): B4.</ref> | |
| − | + | ||
| + | In the nineteenth century, however, a "Jack Mormon" was a ''non''-Mormon who was nevertheless sympathetic or friendly to Mormons. <ref>See {{CHC1|vol=2|start=332 note}} Thomas Sharp (hostile editor of the ''Warsaw Signal'') is the first known to have used the term in print (see ''Illinois State Register'' [1 Nov 1844]; reprinted in ''Nauvoo Neighbor'' [13 Nov 1844].)</ref> | ||
}} | }} | ||
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away"== |
| − | {{ | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| + | |title=American Massacre | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away." | The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away." | ||
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | |||
| − | |authorsources= | ||
*Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191. | *Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191. | ||
*Lee, 339 | *Lee, 339 | ||
*Fielding, ''Tribune Reports'', 109. | *Fielding, ''Tribune Reports'', 109. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{propaganda|The author here relies only on the testimony of convicted murderer Lee, and self-confessed murderer Klingensmith (who turned state's evidence for immunity). | ||
}} | }} | ||
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm"== |
| − | {{ | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| + | |title=American Massacre | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm." | John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm." | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources=<br> |
| − | + | #Author's opinion. | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{disinformation|Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the ''New York Herald'' reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young." <ref>{{FR-16-1-9}}</ref> That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence. | |
| − | |||
}} | }} | ||
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime== |
| − | {{ | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| + | |title=American Massacre | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
{{AuthorQuote|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}} | {{AuthorQuote|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}} | ||
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
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| − | |authorsources= | ||
*{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=300}} | *{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=300}} | ||
*''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207. | *''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207. | ||
}} | }} | ||
| + | {{propaganda|If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it? The author here again follows Bagley uncritically. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | *{{Detail_old|Brigham Young/Prosecution of Mountain Meadows Massacre/Deal with Brigham Young|l1=Deal with Brigham Young for massacre prosecution?}} | ||
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"== |
| − | {{ | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| + | |title=American Massacre | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins." | John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins." | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources=<br> |
| − | + | #No source provided. | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{propaganda|How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed. It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws. | |
| − | |||
}} | }} | ||
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."== |
| − | {{ | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| + | |title=American Massacre | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..." | Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..." | ||
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | + | #No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233. | |
| − | |authorsources= | ||
| − | |||
}} | }} | ||
| + | {{misinformation|This quotation argues ''against'' the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders? | ||
| + | }} | ||
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| + | {{endnotes sources}} | ||
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Latest revision as of 00:04, 31 May 2024
Response to claims made in Chapter 15: "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"
| Chapter 14 | A FAIR Analysis of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, a work by author: Sally Denton
|
Chapter 16 |
Response to claims made in American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, "Chapter 15: Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"
Jump to details:
- Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"
- Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away"
- Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm"
- Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime
- Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"
- Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."
Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate."Author's sources:
- No source given.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
In modern usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint. [1]In the nineteenth century, however, a "Jack Mormon" was a non-Mormon who was nevertheless sympathetic or friendly to Mormons. [2]
Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away."Author's sources:
- Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, Mountain Meadows Witness, 191.
- Lee, 339
- Fielding, Tribune Reports, 109.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
The author here relies only on the testimony of convicted murderer Lee, and self-confessed murderer Klingensmith (who turned state's evidence for immunity).
Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm."Author's sources:
- Author's opinion.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the New York Herald reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young." [3] That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence.
Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
Author's quote: Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.Author's sources:
- Will Bagley, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows (University of Oklahoma Press, 2002), 300.
- Salt Lake Tribune Reports published in Fielding, 207.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it? The author here again follows Bagley uncritically.- For a detailed response, see: Deal with Brigham Young for massacre prosecution?
Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins."Author's sources:
- No source provided.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed. It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws.
Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."Author's sources:
- No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
This quotation argues against the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders?
Notes
- ↑ The modern usage of "jack mormon" can be seen in the user-edited Urban Dictionary (accessed 17 June 2009). See also Pat Bagley, "'Jack Mormon' once meant something else" Salt Lake Tribune (13 January 2008): B4.
- ↑ See Brigham H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1965), 2:332 note. GospeLink Thomas Sharp (hostile editor of the Warsaw Signal) is the first known to have used the term in print (see Illinois State Register [1 Nov 1844]; reprinted in Nauvoo Neighbor [13 Nov 1844].)
- ↑ Robert D. Crockett, "The Denton Debacle (Review of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857)," FARMS Review 16/1 (2004): 135–148. off-site