Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Finding"

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|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates
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|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Finding the plates
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|section=Finding the plates
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|>=[[../Unsuccessful retrieval|Unsuccessful retrieval attempts]]
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|notes={{WikipediaDisclaimer}}
 
 
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<onlyinclude>
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{{H2
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|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Finding
 +
|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Finding the plates
 +
|S=
 +
|L1=Response to claim: "According to Smith, he found the plates after he was directed to them by a heavenly messenger"
 +
|L2=Response to claim: "whom he later identified as the angel Moroni"
 +
|L3=Response to claim: "According to the story, the angel first visited Smith's bedroom late at night, on September 22"
 +
|L4=Response to claim: "Oliver Cowdery initially dated the angel's visit to the "15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr's, age", Cowdery changed the statement to read the 17th year of his age"
 +
|L5=Response to claim: "Moroni told Smith that the plates could be found buried in a prominent hill near his home, later called 'Cumorah'"
 +
|L6=Response to claim: "Before dawn, Moroni reappeared two more times and repeated the information"
 +
|L7=Response to claim: "But the angel would not allow Smith to take the plates until he obeyed certain 'commandments'"
 +
|L8=Response to claim: "Smith recorded some of these commandments, and contemporaries to whom he told the story said there were others"
 +
|L9=Response to claim: "that he have no thought of using the plates for monetary gain"
 +
|L10-Response to claim: "that he tell his father about the vision"
 +
|L11=Response to claim: "that he never show the plates to any unauthorized person"
 +
|L12=Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries who heard the story—both sympathetic and unsympathetic—generally agreed that Smith mentioned the following additional commandments"
 +
|L13=Response to claim: "that the plates never directly touch the ground until safe at home in a locked chest"
 +
|L14=Response to claim: "Some unsympathetic listeners who heard the story from Smith or his father recalled that Smith had said the angel required him...to wear "black clothes" to the place where the plates were buried"
 +
|L15=Response to claim: "to ride a 'black horse with a switchtail'"
 +
|L16=Response to claim: "to call for the plates by a certain name"
 +
|L17=Response to claim: "to 'give thanks to God'"
 +
|L18=Response to claim: "In the morning, Smith began work as usual and did not mention the visions to his father"
 +
|L19=Response to claim: "because, he said, he did not think his father would believe him"
 +
|L20=Response to claim: "Smith said he then fainted because he had been awake all night"
 +
|L21=Response to claim: "When Smith then told all to his father, he believed his son and encouraged him to obey the angel's commands"
 +
|L22=Response to claim: "Smith then set off to visit the hill, later stating that he used his seer stone to locate the place where the plates were buried"
 +
|L23=Response to claim: Joseph "knew the place the instant that" he arrived there
 +
|L24=Response to claim: "Smith said he saw a large stone covering a box made of stone"
 +
|L25=Response to claim: "Using a stick to remove dirt from the edges of the stone cover, and prying it up with a lever"
 +
|L26=Response to claim: "Smith saw the plates inside the box, together with other artifacts"
 +
}}
 +
</onlyinclude>
 +
=={{WikipediaUpdate|9/21/2011}}==
  
−
=An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" {{WikipediaUpdate|3/12/2010}}=
+
==Section review==
 
===Finding the plates===
 
===Finding the plates===
  
−
===== =====
+
==Response to claim: "According to Smith, he found the plates after he was directed to them by a heavenly messenger"==
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
According to Smith, he found the plates after he was directed to them by a heavenly messenger
 
According to Smith, he found the plates after he was directed to them by a heavenly messenger
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*Smith referred to the visitor as an "angel of the Lord" at least as early as 1832 {{Harv|Smith|1832|p=4}}, and possibly as early as 1829 (''Early Mormon Documents'' 1:151-152). Some early accounts related by non-Mormons described this angel as a "spirit" ({{Harvnb|Hadley|1829}}; {{Harvnb|Harris|1833|p=253}}; {{Harvnb|Chase|1833|p=242}}) or a "ghost" {{Harv|Burnett|1831}}; see also {{Harvtxt|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}} (a later-published account using the "ghost" terminology). In 1838, however, Smith later said that the "angel" was a man who had been "dead, and raised again therefrom" {{Harv|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}}.
+
#Smith referred to the visitor as an "angel of the Lord" at least as early as 1832 {{Harv|Smith|1832|p=4}}, and possibly as early as 1829 (''Early Mormon Documents'' 1:151-152). Some early accounts related by non-Mormons described this angel as a "spirit" ({{Harvnb|Hadley|1829}}; {{Harvnb|Harris|1833|p=253}}; {{Harvnb|Chase|1833|p=242}}) or a "ghost" {{Harv|Burnett|1831}}; see also {{Harvtxt|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}} (a later-published account using the "ghost" terminology). In 1838, however, Smith later said that the "angel" was a man who had been "dead, and raised again therefrom" {{Harv|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "whom he later identified as the angel Moroni"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
whom he later identified as the [[angel Moroni]].
 
whom he later identified as the [[angel Moroni]].
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvnb|Smith|Cowdery|Rigdon|1835|p=180}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}}. In distinction from his other accounts, Smith's 1838 autobiography said that the angel's name was Nephi {{Harv|Smith|1838a|p=4}}; nevertheless, modern historians and Latter Day Saints generally refer to the angel as Moroni.
+
#{{Harvnb|Smith|Cowdery|Rigdon|1835|p=180}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}}. In distinction from his other accounts, Smith's 1838 autobiography said that the angel's name was Nephi {{Harv|Smith|1838a|p=4}}; nevertheless, modern historians and Latter Day Saints generally refer to the angel as Moroni.
−
|response=
+
}}
−
*We would be interested to see a reference by Modern day historians or Latter-day Saints who do ''not'' refer to the angel as Moroni.
+
{{misinformation|We would be interested to see a reference by Modern day historians or Latter-day Saints who do ''not'' refer to the angel as Moroni.
−
*{{WikipediaMissingRef}} These facts have not been hidden; they are readily acknowledged in the ''History of the Church'':
+
 
 +
{{WikipediaMissingRef}} These facts have not been hidden; they are readily acknowledged in the ''History of the Church'':
 +
<blockquote>
 +
In the original publication of the history in the ''Times and Seasons'' at Nauvoo, this name appears as "Nephi," and the Millennial Star perpetuated the error in its republication of the History. That it is an error is evident, and it is so noted in the manuscripts to which access has been had in the preparation of this work. <ref>{{HoC|vol=1|start=11|end=12, footnote 2}}</ref>
 +
</blockquote>
 +
 
 +
Joseph refers to the name "Maroni" in his 1832 history, but does not specifically identify the angel by name,
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
In the original publication of the history in the ''Times and Seasons'' at Nauvoo, this name appears as "Nephi," and the Millennial Star perpetuated the error in its republication of the History. That it is an error is evident, and it is so noted in the manuscripts to which access has been had in the preparation of this work.{{ref|HoC1}}
+
for behold an angel of the Lord came and stood before me and it was by night and he called me by name and he said the Lord had forgiven me my sins and he revealed unto me that in the Town of Manchester Ontario County N.Y. there was plates of gold upon which there was engravings which was engraven by Maroni & his fathers ...
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
 +
*{{Detail_old|Primary sources/Joseph Smith, Jr./First Vision accounts/1832}}
 
*Note that the name "Moroni" appears in the critical work ''Mormonism Unvailed'' - 1834, reprinted as ''History of Mormonism'' in 1840.
 
*Note that the name "Moroni" appears in the critical work ''Mormonism Unvailed'' - 1834, reprinted as ''History of Mormonism'' in 1840.
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
After he had finished translating the Book of Mormon, he again buried up the plates in the side of a mountain, by command of the Lord; some time after this, he was going through a piece of woods, on a by-path, when he discovered an old man dressed in ordinary grey apparel...The Lord told him that the man he saw was MORONI, with the plates, and if he had given him the five coppers, he might have got his plates again. (emphasis in original){{ref|unvailed1}}
+
After he had finished translating the Book of Mormon, he again buried up the plates in the side of a mountain, by command of the Lord; some time after this, he was going through a piece of woods, on a by-path, when he discovered an old man dressed in ordinary grey apparel...The Lord told him that the man he saw was MORONI, with the plates, and if he had given him the five coppers, he might have got his plates again. (emphasis in original) <ref>Eber Dudley Howe, ''Mormonism Unvailed'' (Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press, 1834), 277.</ref>
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
*{{Detail|Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{:Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "According to the story, the angel first visited Smith's bedroom late at night, on September 22"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
According to the story, the angel first visited Smith's bedroom late at night, on September 22
 
According to the story, the angel first visited Smith's bedroom late at night, on September 22
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*September 22 was listed in a local [[almanac]] as the [[autumn equinox|autumnal equinox]], which has led D. Michael Quinn to argue that the date had astrological significance in Smith's worldview ({{Harvnb|Quinn|1998|p=144}}; however, this ostensible astrological significance is never mentioned by Smith or his contemporaries.
+
#September 22 was listed in a local [[almanac]] as the [[autumn equinox|autumnal equinox]], which has led D. Michael Quinn to argue that the date had astrological significance in Smith's worldview ({{Harvnb|Quinn|1998|p=144}}; however, this ostensible astrological significance is never mentioned by Smith or his contemporaries.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
{{:Question: Was the fact that the recovery of the Book of Mormon plates occurred on the autumnal equinox somehow significant?}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Oliver Cowdery initially dated the angel's visit to the "15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr's, age", Cowdery changed the statement to read the 17th year of his age"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
in 1822 or 1823.
 
in 1822 or 1823.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*Smith's first mention of the angel in later histories is an appearance on the eve of September 22, 1823 {{Harv|Smith|1838a|p=4}}; however, other accounts say or imply that the angel may have appeared a year earlier in 1822. Smith's first history in 1832 said the angel's first visit was on September 22, 1822, although he also said he was "seventeen years of age" {{Harv|Smith|1832|p=3}}, which would have made the year 1823 (he turned 17 in December 1822). In 1835, after [[Oliver Cowdery]] initially dated the angel's visit to the "15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr's, age", Cowdery changed the statement to read the 17th year of his age (16 years old, or 1822)—but he said this visit in Smith's "17th year" occurred in 1823 {{Harv|Cowdery|1835a|p=78}}. Smith's father is quoted by an inquirer who visited his house in 1830 as saying that the first visit by the angel took place in 1822 but that he did not learn about it until 1823 {{Harv|Lapham|1870|p=305}}. A Smith neighbor who said Smith told him the story in 1823 said the angel appeared "a year or two before" the death of Joseph's brother Alvin in November 1823.
+
#Smith's first mention of the angel in later histories is an appearance on the eve of September 22, 1823 {{Harv|Smith|1838a|p=4}}; however, other accounts say or imply that the angel may have appeared a year earlier in 1822. Smith's first history in 1832 said the angel's first visit was on September 22, 1822, although he also said he was "seventeen years of age" {{Harv|Smith|1832|p=3}}, which would have made the year 1823 (he turned 17 in December 1822). In 1835, after [[Oliver Cowdery]] initially dated the angel's visit to the "15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr's, age", Cowdery changed the statement to read the 17th year of his age (16 years old, or 1822)—but he said this visit in Smith's "17th year" occurred in 1823 {{Harv|Cowdery|1835a|p=78}}. Smith's father is quoted by an inquirer who visited his house in 1830 as saying that the first visit by the angel took place in 1822 but that he did not learn about it until 1823 {{Harv|Lapham|1870|p=305}}. A Smith neighbor who said Smith told him the story in 1823 said the angel appeared "a year or two before" the death of Joseph's brother Alvin in November 1823.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
−
*Regarding Oliver Cowdery's account, {{Detail|First Vision/Accounts/Oliver Cowdery not aware of First Vision in 1834-35}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
{{:Joseph Smith's First Vision/Accounts/Oliver Cowdery not aware of First Vision in 1834-35}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Moroni told Smith that the plates could be found buried in a prominent hill near his home, later called 'Cumorah'"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Moroni told Smith that the plates could be found buried in a prominent hill near his home, later called ''[[Cumorah]]'', a name taken from the [[Book of Mormon]].
 
Moroni told Smith that the plates could be found buried in a prominent hill near his home, later called ''[[Cumorah]]'', a name taken from the [[Book of Mormon]].
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=4}} (identifying the hill, but not referring to it by a name); {{Harvtxt|Cowdery|1835b|p=196}} (referring to the hill as ''[[Cumorah]]'').
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=4}} (identifying the hill, but not referring to it by a name); {{Harvtxt|Cowdery|1835b|p=196}} (referring to the hill as ''[[Cumorah]]'').
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Before dawn, Moroni reappeared two more times and repeated the information"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Before dawn, Moroni reappeared two more times and repeated the information.
 
Before dawn, Moroni reappeared two more times and repeated the information.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1832|p=7}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1842|p=707}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1832|p=7}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1842|p=707}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "But the angel would not allow Smith to take the plates until he obeyed certain 'commandments'"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
But the angel would not allow Smith to take the plates until he obeyed certain "commandments".
 
But the angel would not allow Smith to take the plates until he obeyed certain "commandments".
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}} (saying the angel told him to obey his charge concerning the plates, "otherwise I could not get them"); {{Harvtxt|Clark|1842|pp=225–26}} (the angel "told him that he must follow implicitly the divine direction, or he would draw down upon him the wrath of heaven"); {{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=83}} (characterizing the angel's requirements as "commandments of God", and saying Smith could receive the plates "not only until he was willing, but able" to keep those commandments).
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}} (saying the angel told him to obey his charge concerning the plates, "otherwise I could not get them"); {{Harvtxt|Clark|1842|pp=225–26}} (the angel "told him that he must follow implicitly the divine direction, or he would draw down upon him the wrath of heaven"); {{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=83}} (characterizing the angel's requirements as "commandments of God", and saying Smith could receive the plates "not only until he was willing, but able" to keep those commandments).
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith recorded some of these commandments, and contemporaries to whom he told the story said there were others"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith recorded some of these commandments, and contemporaries to whom he told the story said there were others, all of which are relevant to the modern debate about whether, or how closely, events of early Mormonism were related to the practice of contemporary [[folk magic]].
 
Smith recorded some of these commandments, and contemporaries to whom he told the story said there were others, all of which are relevant to the modern debate about whether, or how closely, events of early Mormonism were related to the practice of contemporary [[folk magic]].
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*See, e.g., {{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998}}.
+
#See, e.g., {{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "that he have no thought of using the plates for monetary gain"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith's writings say that the angel required at least the following: (1) that he have no thought of using the plates for monetary gain,
 
Smith's writings say that the angel required at least the following: (1) that he have no thought of using the plates for monetary gain,
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1832|p=5}} (saying he was commanded to "have an eye single to the glory of God"); {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}} (saying the angel commanded him to "have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God".)
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1832|p=5}} (saying he was commanded to "have an eye single to the glory of God"); {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}} (saying the angel commanded him to "have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God".)
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "that he tell his father about the vision"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
(2) that he tell his father about the vision,
 
(2) that he tell his father about the vision,
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*Smith's mother [[Lucy Mack Smith]] said he was commanded to tell his father during the third vision {{Harv|Smith|1853|p=81}}, but he disobeyed because he didn't think his father would believe him, and the angel appeared a fourth time to rebuke him and reiterate the commandment (82). Joseph Smith and his sister Katharine said the angel gave him the commandment in his fourth visit, but did not say whether he had received the commandment earlier that night ({{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|p=7}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=12}}). Smith's father is quoted by a skeptical interviewer to say that in 1830, Smith delayed telling his father about the vision for about a year {{Harv|Lapham|1870|p=305}}. Smith's brother William, who was 11 at the time, said the angel commanded him to tell his entire family {{Harv|Smith|1883|p=9}}, although he may have been remembering Smith tell the story that night ''after'' he visited the hill, according to their mother's recollection {{Harv|Smith|1853|p=83}}.
+
#Smith's mother [[Lucy Mack Smith]] said he was commanded to tell his father during the third vision {{Harv|Smith|1853|p=81}}, but he disobeyed because he didn't think his father would believe him, and the angel appeared a fourth time to rebuke him and reiterate the commandment (82). Joseph Smith and his sister Katharine said the angel gave him the commandment in his fourth visit, but did not say whether he had received the commandment earlier that night ({{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|p=7}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=12}}). Smith's father is quoted by a skeptical interviewer to say that in 1830, Smith delayed telling his father about the vision for about a year {{Harv|Lapham|1870|p=305}}. Smith's brother William, who was 11 at the time, said the angel commanded him to tell his entire family {{Harv|Smith|1883|p=9}}, although he may have been remembering Smith tell the story that night ''after'' he visited the hill, according to their mother's recollection {{Harv|Smith|1853|p=83}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "that he never show the plates to any unauthorized person"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
and (3) that he never show the plates to any unauthorized person.
 
and (3) that he never show the plates to any unauthorized person.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Hadley|1829}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Hadley|1829}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries who heard the story—both sympathetic and unsympathetic—generally agreed that Smith mentioned the following additional commandments"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith's contemporaries who heard the story—both sympathetic and unsympathetic—generally agreed that Smith mentioned the following additional commandments: (4) that Smith take the plates and leave the site where they had been buried without looking back,
 
Smith's contemporaries who heard the story—both sympathetic and unsympathetic—generally agreed that Smith mentioned the following additional commandments: (4) that Smith take the plates and leave the site where they had been buried without looking back,
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*This commandment is described in the account of [[Joseph Knight, Sr.]], a loyal Latter Day Saint friend of Smith's {{Harv|Knight|1833|p=2}}, and Willard Chase, an associate of Smith's in Palmyra during the 1820s {{Harv|Chase|1833|p=242}}. Both Knight and Chase were treasure seekers, but while Knight remained a loyal follower until his death, Chase was a critic of Smith's by the early 1830s.
+
#This commandment is described in the account of [[Joseph Knight, Sr.]], a loyal Latter Day Saint friend of Smith's {{Harv|Knight|1833|p=2}}, and Willard Chase, an associate of Smith's in Palmyra during the 1820s {{Harv|Chase|1833|p=242}}. Both Knight and Chase were treasure seekers, but while Knight remained a loyal follower until his death, Chase was a critic of Smith's by the early 1830s.
−
|response=
+
}}
 +
{{information|
 
*From [[Primary sources/Joseph Knight/Manuscript of the Early History of Joseph Smith|Joseph Knight's 1833 account]],
 
*From [[Primary sources/Joseph Knight/Manuscript of the Early History of Joseph Smith|Joseph Knight's 1833 account]],
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
Line 135: Line 191:
 
}}
 
}}
  
−
===== =====
+
 
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
==Response to claim: "that the plates never directly touch the ground until safe at home in a locked chest"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
and (5) that the plates never directly touch the ground until safe at home in a locked chest.
 
and (5) that the plates never directly touch the ground until safe at home in a locked chest.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*There is agreement on this commandment by Smith's mother {{Harv|Smith|1853|pp=85–86}} and sister {{Harv|Salisbury|1895|p=14}} and by two non-Mormons ({{Harvnb|Chase|1833|p=242}}; {{Harvnb|Lapham|1870|p=305}}).
+
#There is agreement on this commandment by Smith's mother {{Harv|Smith|1853|pp=85–86}} and sister {{Harv|Salisbury|1895|p=14}} and by two non-Mormons ({{Harvnb|Chase|1833|p=242}}; {{Harvnb|Lapham|1870|p=305}}).
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
 
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
==Response to claim: "Some unsympathetic listeners who heard the story from Smith or his father recalled that Smith had said the angel required him...to wear "black clothes" to the place where the plates were buried"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Some unsympathetic listeners who heard the story from Smith or his father recalled that Smith had said the angel required him (6) to wear "black clothes" to the place where the plates were buried,
 
Some unsympathetic listeners who heard the story from Smith or his father recalled that Smith had said the angel required him (6) to wear "black clothes" to the place where the plates were buried,
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Chase|1833|p=242}} (an affidavit of Willard Chase, a non-Latter Day Saint treasure seeker who believed Smith wrongly appropriated his seer stone). Chase said he heard the story from Smith's father in 1827. Fayette Lapham, who traveled to Palmyra in 1830 to inquire about the Latter Day Saint movement and heard the story from Joseph Smith, Sr., said Smith was told to wear an "old-fashioned suit of clothes, of the same color as those worn by the angel", but Lapham did not specify what color of clothing the angel was wearing {{Harv|Lapham|1870|p=305}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Chase|1833|p=242}} (an affidavit of Willard Chase, a non-Latter Day Saint treasure seeker who believed Smith wrongly appropriated his seer stone). Chase said he heard the story from Smith's father in 1827. Fayette Lapham, who traveled to Palmyra in 1830 to inquire about the Latter Day Saint movement and heard the story from Joseph Smith, Sr., said Smith was told to wear an "old-fashioned suit of clothes, of the same color as those worn by the angel", but Lapham did not specify what color of clothing the angel was wearing {{Harv|Lapham|1870|p=305}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
−
*{{Detail|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
*{{Detail_old|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "to ride a 'black horse with a switchtail'"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
(7) to ride a "black horse with a switchtail",
 
(7) to ride a "black horse with a switchtail",
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Chase|1833|p=242}} (affidavit of Willard Chase, relating story heard from Smith's father in 1827). A friendly but non-believing Palmyra neighbor, Lorenzo Saunders, heard the story in 1823 from Joseph Smith, Jr., and also said Smith was to required to ride a black horse to the hill {{Harv|Saunders|1884b}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Chase|1833|p=242}} (affidavit of Willard Chase, relating story heard from Smith's father in 1827). A friendly but non-believing Palmyra neighbor, Lorenzo Saunders, heard the story in 1823 from Joseph Smith, Jr., and also said Smith was to required to ride a black horse to the hill {{Harv|Saunders|1884b}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
−
*{{Detail|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
*{{Detail_old|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "to call for the plates by a certain name"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
(8) to call for the plates by a certain name,
 
(8) to call for the plates by a certain name,
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Chase|1833|p=242}} (affidavit of the skeptical Willard Chase).
+
#{{Harvtxt|Chase|1833|p=242}} (affidavit of the skeptical Willard Chase).
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
−
*{{Detail|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
*{{Detail_old|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "to 'give thanks to God'"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
and (9) to "give thanks to God."
 
and (9) to "give thanks to God."
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Saunders|1893}} (statement of Orson Saunders of Palmyra, who heard the story from Benjamin Saunders, who heard the story from Joseph Smith).
+
#{{Harvtxt|Saunders|1893}} (statement of Orson Saunders of Palmyra, who heard the story from Benjamin Saunders, who heard the story from Joseph Smith).
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "In the morning, Smith began work as usual and did not mention the visions to his father"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
In the morning, Smith began work as usual and did not mention the visions to his father
 
In the morning, Smith began work as usual and did not mention the visions to his father
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=7}}
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=7}}
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
 +
{{information}}
  
−
===== =====
+
==Response to claim: "because, he said, he did not think his father would believe him"==
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
because, he said, he did not think his father would believe him.
 
because, he said, he did not think his father would believe him.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=82}}; {{Harvtxt|Salisbury|1895|p=12}} (stating that Smith told the angel during the fourth visit that he was afraid his Father would not believe him).
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=82}}; {{Harvtxt|Salisbury|1895|p=12}} (stating that Smith told the angel during the fourth visit that he was afraid his Father would not believe him).
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith said he then fainted because he had been awake all night"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith said he then fainted because he had been awake all night, and while unconscious, the angel appeared a fourth time and chastised him for failing to tell the visions to his father.
 
Smith said he then fainted because he had been awake all night, and while unconscious, the angel appeared a fourth time and chastised him for failing to tell the visions to his father.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=82}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=82}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=6}}.
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "When Smith then told all to his father, he believed his son and encouraged him to obey the angel's commands"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
When Smith then told all to his father, he believed his son and encouraged him to obey the angel's commands.
 
When Smith then told all to his father, he believed his son and encouraged him to obey the angel's commands.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=82}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=7}}. Smith's brother William, who was 11 at the time, said he also told the rest of his family that day prior to visiting the hill {{Harv|Smith:1883|pp=9–10}}, although he may have been remembering Smith tell the story the night ''after'' he visited the hill, according to their mother's recollection {{Harv|Smith|1853|p=83}}. Smith's sister Katharine said that Joseph told his father and the two oldest brothers Alvin and [[Hyrum Smith|Hyrum]] the morning prior to visiting the hill, but Katharine was too young (10 years old) to understand what they were talking about {{Harv|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1853|p=82}}; {{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|p=7}}. Smith's brother William, who was 11 at the time, said he also told the rest of his family that day prior to visiting the hill {{Harv|Smith:1883|pp=9–10}}, although he may have been remembering Smith tell the story the night ''after'' he visited the hill, according to their mother's recollection {{Harv|Smith|1853|p=83}}. Smith's sister Katharine said that Joseph told his father and the two oldest brothers Alvin and [[Hyrum Smith|Hyrum]] the morning prior to visiting the hill, but Katharine was too young (10 years old) to understand what they were talking about {{Harv|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith then set off to visit the hill, later stating that he used his seer stone to locate the place where the plates were buried"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith then set off to visit the hill, later stating that he used his seer stone to locate the place where the plates were buried
 
Smith then set off to visit the hill, later stating that he used his seer stone to locate the place where the plates were buried
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Harris|1833|p=252}} (statement by Henry Harris, a non-Mormon Palmyra resident); {{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=163}} (statement by Martin Harris, a Latter Day Saint who became one of the Three Witnesses of the Golden Plates). According to one hearer of the account, Smith used the seer stone to follow a sequence of landmarks by horse and on foot until he arrived at the place the plates were buried.{{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=305}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Harris|1833|p=252}} (statement by Henry Harris, a non-Mormon Palmyra resident); {{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=163}} (statement by Martin Harris, a Latter Day Saint who became one of the Three Witnesses of the Golden Plates). According to one hearer of the account, Smith used the seer stone to follow a sequence of landmarks by horse and on foot until he arrived at the place the plates were buried.{{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=305}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: Joseph "knew the place the instant that" he arrived there==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
but that he "knew the place the instant that [he] arrived there."
 
but that he "knew the place the instant that [he] arrived there."
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|pp=6–7}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|pp=6–7}}.
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith said he saw a large stone covering a box made of stone"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith said he saw a large stone covering a box made of stone (or possibly iron).
 
Smith said he saw a large stone covering a box made of stone (or possibly iron).
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*Most accounts, including those written by Smith, say the plates were found in a stone box ({{Harvnb|Cowdery|1835b|p=196}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|pp=15–16}}; {{Harvnb|Whitmer|1875}}, calling it a "stone casket", and stating that Smith had to dig down for the box "two and a half or three feet"); according to two non-believing witnesses, however, Smith said they were buried in an iron box ({{Harvnb|Bennett|1831|p=7}}; {{Harvnb|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}}).
+
#Most accounts, including those written by Smith, say the plates were found in a stone box ({{Harvnb|Cowdery|1835b|p=196}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|pp=15–16}}; {{Harvnb|Whitmer|1875}}, calling it a "stone casket", and stating that Smith had to dig down for the box "two and a half or three feet"); according to two non-believing witnesses, however, Smith said they were buried in an iron box ({{Harvnb|Bennett|1831|p=7}}; {{Harvnb|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}}).
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
 +
{{information}}
  
−
===== =====
+
==Response to claim: "Using a stick to remove dirt from the edges of the stone cover, and prying it up with a lever"==
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Using a stick to remove dirt from the edges of the stone cover, and prying it up with a lever,
 
Using a stick to remove dirt from the edges of the stone cover, and prying it up with a lever,
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}
+
#{{Harvtxt|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}
−
|response=
 
−
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
−
===== =====
+
{{information}}
−
{{WikipediaPassage
+
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith saw the plates inside the box, together with other artifacts"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 
|claim=
 
|claim=
 
Smith saw the plates inside the box, together with other artifacts.
 
Smith saw the plates inside the box, together with other artifacts.
−
|authorsources=
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|pp=15–16}}. According to various accounts, these artifacts may have included a breastplate ({{Harvnb|Cowdery|1835b|p=196}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|p=16}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}, saying it was the "breast-plate of Laban"), a set of large spectacles made of seer stones ({{Harvnb|Chase|1833|p=243}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|p=16}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}), the Liahona, the sword of Laban ({{Harvnb|Lapham|1870|pp=306, 308}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}), the brass plates of Laban {{Harv|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}, the vessel in which the gold was melted, a rolling machine for gold plates, and three balls of gold as large as a fist {{Harv|Harris|1833|p=253}}.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838a|pp=15–16}}. According to various accounts, these artifacts may have included a breastplate ({{Harvnb|Cowdery|1835b|p=196}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|p=16}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}, saying it was the "breast-plate of Laban"), a set of large spectacles made of seer stones ({{Harvnb|Chase|1833|p=243}}; {{Harvnb|Smith|1838a|p=16}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}), the Liahona, the sword of Laban ({{Harvnb|Lapham|1870|pp=306, 308}}; {{Harvnb|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}), the brass plates of Laban {{Harv|Salisbury|1895|p=13}}, the vessel in which the gold was melted, a rolling machine for gold plates, and three balls of gold as large as a fist {{Harv|Harris|1833|p=253}}.
−
|response=
+
}}
−
*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=103527029&oldid=103512801}} The wiki editor has used a source which does not support the claim made in the main text.
+
{{misinformation|
 +
*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=103527029&oldid=103512801}}  
 +
{{misinformation|The wiki editor has used a source which does not support the claim made in the main text.
 
*{{Harv|Harris|1833|p=255}} The third-hand account by Abigail Harris published in ''Mormonism Unvailed'' has some obvious problems, and there is nothing to support the idea that the vessel in which the gold was melted, a rolling machine and three balls of gold were found ''inside the box.'' Instead, the source notes that Joseph saw these items by "looking through his stone." The items described, and the plates "so heavy that it would take four stout men to load them into a cart" appear to be related to the story of the plates being returned to a cave in the Hill Cumorah. Here is what the source actually states:
 
*{{Harv|Harris|1833|p=255}} The third-hand account by Abigail Harris published in ''Mormonism Unvailed'' has some obvious problems, and there is nothing to support the idea that the vessel in which the gold was melted, a rolling machine and three balls of gold were found ''inside the box.'' Instead, the source notes that Joseph saw these items by "looking through his stone." The items described, and the plates "so heavy that it would take four stout men to load them into a cart" appear to be related to the story of the plates being returned to a cave in the Hill Cumorah. Here is what the source actually states:
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
They said that the plates he then had in possession were but an introduction to the Gold Bible -- that all of them upon which the bible was written, were so heavy that it would take four stout men to load them into a cart -- that Joseph had also discovered by looking through his stone, the vessel in which the gold was melted from which the plates were made, and also the machine with which they were rolled; he also discovered in the bottom of the vessel three balls of gold, each as large as his fist.
+
They said that the plates he then had in possession were but an introduction to the Gold Bible&mdash;that all of them upon which the bible was written, were so heavy that it would take four stout men to load them into a cart&mdash;that Joseph had also discovered by looking through his stone, the vessel in which the gold was melted from which the plates were made, and also the machine with which they were rolled; he also discovered in the bottom of the vessel three balls of gold, each as large as his fist.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
*{{Detail|Book of Mormon/Hill Cumorah/Archaeology#Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?|l1=Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?}}
 
 
}}
 
}}
 +
}}
 +
*{{Detail_old|Book of Mormon/Hill Cumorah/Archaeology#Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?|l1=Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?}}
  
−
==Endnotes==
 
−
#{{note|HoC1}}{{HoC|vol=1|start=11|end=12, footnote 2}}
 
−
#{{note|unvailed1}} Eber Dudley Howe, ''Mormonism Unvailed'' (Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press, 1834), 277.
 
  
−
==Archive==
+
{{endnotes sources}}
−
*[[/December 2009|December 2009]]
 
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
 
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}}
 
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}}
  
−
==Further reading==
+
=={{Further reading label}}==
 
{{MormonismAndWikipedia}}
 
{{MormonismAndWikipedia}}
  
 
{{suggestions}}
 
{{suggestions}}

Latest revision as of 00:04, 31 May 2024

Contents

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Finding the plates



Background
A FAIR Analysis of: Wikipedia article "Golden plates", a work by author: Various
 		Unsuccessful retrieval attempts

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Finding the plates


Jump to details:

 Updated 9/21/2011

Section review

Finding the plates

Response to claim: "According to Smith, he found the plates after he was directed to them by a heavenly messenger"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

According to Smith, he found the plates after he was directed to them by a heavenly messenger

Author's sources:
  1. Smith referred to the visitor as an "angel of the Lord" at least as early as 1832 Smith (1832) , p. 4, and possibly as early as 1829 (Early Mormon Documents 1:151-152). Some early accounts related by non-Mormons described this angel as a "spirit" (Hadley (1829) ; Harris (1833) , p. 253; Chase (1833) , p. 242) or a "ghost" Burnett (1831) ; see also Lewis (Lewis) , p. 1 (a later-published account using the "ghost" terminology). In 1838, however, Smith later said that the "angel" was a man who had been "dead, and raised again therefrom" Smith (1838b) , pp. 42–43.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "whom he later identified as the angel Moroni"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

whom he later identified as the angel Moroni.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (Cowdery) , p. 180; Smith (1838b) , pp. 42–43. In distinction from his other accounts, Smith's 1838 autobiography said that the angel's name was Nephi Smith (1838a) , p. 4; nevertheless, modern historians and Latter Day Saints generally refer to the angel as Moroni.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

We would be interested to see a reference by Modern day historians or Latter-day Saints who do not refer to the angel as Moroni.

 References not included in the Wikipedia article
These facts have not been hidden; they are readily acknowledged in the History of the Church:

In the original publication of the history in the Times and Seasons at Nauvoo, this name appears as "Nephi," and the Millennial Star perpetuated the error in its republication of the History. That it is an error is evident, and it is so noted in the manuscripts to which access has been had in the preparation of this work. [1]

Joseph refers to the name "Maroni" in his 1832 history, but does not specifically identify the angel by name,

for behold an angel of the Lord came and stood before me and it was by night and he called me by name and he said the Lord had forgiven me my sins and he revealed unto me that in the Town of Manchester Ontario County N.Y. there was plates of gold upon which there was engravings which was engraven by Maroni & his fathers ...

After he had finished translating the Book of Mormon, he again buried up the plates in the side of a mountain, by command of the Lord; some time after this, he was going through a piece of woods, on a by-path, when he discovered an old man dressed in ordinary grey apparel...The Lord told him that the man he saw was MORONI, with the plates, and if he had given him the five coppers, he might have got his plates again. (emphasis in original) [2]


Some Church sources give the identity of the angel that visited Joseph Smith in 1823 as "Nephi" instead of "Moroni"


Jump to details:


Response to claim: "According to the story, the angel first visited Smith's bedroom late at night, on September 22"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

According to the story, the angel first visited Smith's bedroom late at night, on September 22

Author's sources:
  1. September 22 was listed in a local almanac as the autumnal equinox, which has led D. Michael Quinn to argue that the date had astrological significance in Smith's worldview (Quinn (1998) , p. 144; however, this ostensible astrological significance is never mentioned by Smith or his contemporaries.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

<onlyinclude>

  1. REDIRECTJoseph Smith and folk magic or the occult

Response to claim: "Oliver Cowdery initially dated the angel's visit to the "15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr's, age", Cowdery changed the statement to read the 17th year of his age"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

in 1822 or 1823.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith's first mention of the angel in later histories is an appearance on the eve of September 22, 1823 Smith (1838a) , p. 4; however, other accounts say or imply that the angel may have appeared a year earlier in 1822. Smith's first history in 1832 said the angel's first visit was on September 22, 1822, although he also said he was "seventeen years of age" Smith (1832) , p. 3, which would have made the year 1823 (he turned 17 in December 1822). In 1835, after Oliver Cowdery initially dated the angel's visit to the "15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr's, age", Cowdery changed the statement to read the 17th year of his age (16 years old, or 1822)—but he said this visit in Smith's "17th year" occurred in 1823 Cowdery (1835a) , p. 78. Smith's father is quoted by an inquirer who visited his house in 1830 as saying that the first visit by the angel took place in 1822 but that he did not learn about it until 1823 Lapham (1870) , p. 305. A Smith neighbor who said Smith told him the story in 1823 said the angel appeared "a year or two before" the death of Joseph's brother Alvin in November 1823.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Oliver Cowdery's awareness of the story of the First Vision in 1834-35

Summary: When Oliver Cowdery published his version of the history of the Church in December 1834 and February 1835 he did not include a recital of the First Vision story - thus implying that it was not known among the Saints by that point in time. It is claimed that Cowdery's history contradicts Joseph Smith's later official history by saying that the Prophet's first visionary experience was of the angel Moroni in 1823.


Jump to details:


Response to claim: "Moroni told Smith that the plates could be found buried in a prominent hill near his home, later called 'Cumorah'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Moroni told Smith that the plates could be found buried in a prominent hill near his home, later called Cumorah, a name taken from the Book of Mormon.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838a) , p. 4 (identifying the hill, but not referring to it by a name); Cowdery (1835b) , p. 196 (referring to the hill as Cumorah).

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Before dawn, Moroni reappeared two more times and repeated the information"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Before dawn, Moroni reappeared two more times and repeated the information.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1832) , p. 7; Smith (1842) , p. 707.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "But the angel would not allow Smith to take the plates until he obeyed certain 'commandments'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

But the angel would not allow Smith to take the plates until he obeyed certain "commandments".

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838a) , p. 6 (saying the angel told him to obey his charge concerning the plates, "otherwise I could not get them"); Clark (1842) , pp. 225–26 (the angel "told him that he must follow implicitly the divine direction, or he would draw down upon him the wrath of heaven"); Smith (1853) , p. 83 (characterizing the angel's requirements as "commandments of God", and saying Smith could receive the plates "not only until he was willing, but able" to keep those commandments).

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Smith recorded some of these commandments, and contemporaries to whom he told the story said there were others"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith recorded some of these commandments, and contemporaries to whom he told the story said there were others, all of which are relevant to the modern debate about whether, or how closely, events of early Mormonism were related to the practice of contemporary folk magic.

Author's sources:
  1. See, e.g., Quinn (1998) .

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "that he have no thought of using the plates for monetary gain"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith's writings say that the angel required at least the following: (1) that he have no thought of using the plates for monetary gain,

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1832) , p. 5 (saying he was commanded to "have an eye single to the glory of God"); Smith (1838a) , p. 6 (saying the angel commanded him to "have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God".)

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "that he tell his father about the vision"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

(2) that he tell his father about the vision,

Author's sources:
  1. Smith's mother Lucy Mack Smith said he was commanded to tell his father during the third vision Smith (1853) , p. 81, but he disobeyed because he didn't think his father would believe him, and the angel appeared a fourth time to rebuke him and reiterate the commandment (82). Joseph Smith and his sister Katharine said the angel gave him the commandment in his fourth visit, but did not say whether he had received the commandment earlier that night (Smith (1838a) , p. 7; Salisbury (1895) , p. 12). Smith's father is quoted by a skeptical interviewer to say that in 1830, Smith delayed telling his father about the vision for about a year Lapham (1870) , p. 305. Smith's brother William, who was 11 at the time, said the angel commanded him to tell his entire family Smith (1883) , p. 9, although he may have been remembering Smith tell the story that night after he visited the hill, according to their mother's recollection Smith (1853) , p. 83.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "that he never show the plates to any unauthorized person"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

and (3) that he never show the plates to any unauthorized person.

Author's sources:
  1. Hadley (1829) ; Smith (1838a) , p. 6.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries who heard the story—both sympathetic and unsympathetic—generally agreed that Smith mentioned the following additional commandments"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith's contemporaries who heard the story—both sympathetic and unsympathetic—generally agreed that Smith mentioned the following additional commandments: (4) that Smith take the plates and leave the site where they had been buried without looking back,

Author's sources:
  1. This commandment is described in the account of Joseph Knight, Sr., a loyal Latter Day Saint friend of Smith's Knight (1833) , p. 2, and Willard Chase, an associate of Smith's in Palmyra during the 1820s Chase (1833) , p. 242. Both Knight and Chase were treasure seekers, but while Knight remained a loyal follower until his death, Chase was a critic of Smith's by the early 1830s.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

He oncovered it and found the Book and took it out and laid [it] Down By his side and thot he would Cover the place over again thinking there might be something else here. But he was told to take the Book and go right away. And after he had Covered the place he turned round to take the Book and it was not there and he was astonished that the Book was gone. He thot he would look in the place again and see if it had not got Back again. He had heard people tell of such things. And he opened the Box and Behold the Book was there. He took hold of it to take it out again and Behold he Could not stur the Book any more then he Could the mountin. He exclaimed “why Cant I stur this Book?” And he was answered, “you cant have it now.”


Response to claim: "that the plates never directly touch the ground until safe at home in a locked chest"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

and (5) that the plates never directly touch the ground until safe at home in a locked chest.

Author's sources:
  1. There is agreement on this commandment by Smith's mother Smith (1853) , pp. 85–86 and sister Salisbury (1895) , p. 14 and by two non-Mormons (Chase (1833) , p. 242; Lapham (1870) , p. 305).

FAIR's Response

Response to claim: "Some unsympathetic listeners who heard the story from Smith or his father recalled that Smith had said the angel required him...to wear "black clothes" to the place where the plates were buried"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Some unsympathetic listeners who heard the story from Smith or his father recalled that Smith had said the angel required him (6) to wear "black clothes" to the place where the plates were buried,

Author's sources:
  1. Chase (1833) , p. 242 (an affidavit of Willard Chase, a non-Latter Day Saint treasure seeker who believed Smith wrongly appropriated his seer stone). Chase said he heard the story from Smith's father in 1827. Fayette Lapham, who traveled to Palmyra in 1830 to inquire about the Latter Day Saint movement and heard the story from Joseph Smith, Sr., said Smith was told to wear an "old-fashioned suit of clothes, of the same color as those worn by the angel", but Lapham did not specify what color of clothing the angel was wearing Lapham (1870) , p. 305.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: "to ride a 'black horse with a switchtail'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

(7) to ride a "black horse with a switchtail",

Author's sources:
  1. Chase (1833) , p. 242 (affidavit of Willard Chase, relating story heard from Smith's father in 1827). A friendly but non-believing Palmyra neighbor, Lorenzo Saunders, heard the story in 1823 from Joseph Smith, Jr., and also said Smith was to required to ride a black horse to the hill Saunders (1884b) .

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: "to call for the plates by a certain name"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

(8) to call for the plates by a certain name,

Author's sources:
  1. Chase (1833) , p. 242 (affidavit of the skeptical Willard Chase).

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: "to 'give thanks to God'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

and (9) to "give thanks to God."

Author's sources:
  1. Saunders (1893) (statement of Orson Saunders of Palmyra, who heard the story from Benjamin Saunders, who heard the story from Joseph Smith).

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "In the morning, Smith began work as usual and did not mention the visions to his father"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

In the morning, Smith began work as usual and did not mention the visions to his father

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838a) , p. 7

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "because, he said, he did not think his father would believe him"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

because, he said, he did not think his father would believe him.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1853) , p. 82; Salisbury (1895) , p. 12 (stating that Smith told the angel during the fourth visit that he was afraid his Father would not believe him).

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Smith said he then fainted because he had been awake all night"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith said he then fainted because he had been awake all night, and while unconscious, the angel appeared a fourth time and chastised him for failing to tell the visions to his father.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1853) , p. 82; Smith (1838a) , p. 6.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "When Smith then told all to his father, he believed his son and encouraged him to obey the angel's commands"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

When Smith then told all to his father, he believed his son and encouraged him to obey the angel's commands.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1853) , p. 82; Smith (1838a) , p. 7. Smith's brother William, who was 11 at the time, said he also told the rest of his family that day prior to visiting the hill Smith:1883 , pp. 9–10, although he may have been remembering Smith tell the story the night after he visited the hill, according to their mother's recollection Smith (1853) , p. 83. Smith's sister Katharine said that Joseph told his father and the two oldest brothers Alvin and Hyrum the morning prior to visiting the hill, but Katharine was too young (10 years old) to understand what they were talking about Salisbury (1895) , p. 13.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Smith then set off to visit the hill, later stating that he used his seer stone to locate the place where the plates were buried"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith then set off to visit the hill, later stating that he used his seer stone to locate the place where the plates were buried

Author's sources:
  1. Harris (1833) , p. 252 (statement by Henry Harris, a non-Mormon Palmyra resident); Harris (1859) , p. 163 (statement by Martin Harris, a Latter Day Saint who became one of the Three Witnesses of the Golden Plates). According to one hearer of the account, Smith used the seer stone to follow a sequence of landmarks by horse and on foot until he arrived at the place the plates were buried.Lapham (1870) , p. 305.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: Joseph "knew the place the instant that" he arrived there

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

but that he "knew the place the instant that [he] arrived there."

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838a) , pp. 6–7.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Smith said he saw a large stone covering a box made of stone"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith said he saw a large stone covering a box made of stone (or possibly iron).

Author's sources:
  1. Most accounts, including those written by Smith, say the plates were found in a stone box (Cowdery (1835b) , p. 196; Smith (1838a) , pp. 15–16; Whitmer (1875) , calling it a "stone casket", and stating that Smith had to dig down for the box "two and a half or three feet"); according to two non-believing witnesses, however, Smith said they were buried in an iron box (Bennett (1831) , p. 7; Lewis (Lewis) , p. 1).

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Using a stick to remove dirt from the edges of the stone cover, and prying it up with a lever"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Using a stick to remove dirt from the edges of the stone cover, and prying it up with a lever,

Author's sources:
  1. Salisbury (1895) , p. 13

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Smith saw the plates inside the box, together with other artifacts"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith saw the plates inside the box, together with other artifacts.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838a) , pp. 15–16. According to various accounts, these artifacts may have included a breastplate (Cowdery (1835b) , p. 196; Smith (1838a) , p. 16; Salisbury (1895) , p. 13, saying it was the "breast-plate of Laban"), a set of large spectacles made of seer stones (Chase (1833) , p. 243; Smith (1838a) , p. 16; Salisbury (1895) , p. 13), the Liahona, the sword of Laban (Lapham (1870) , pp. 306, 308; Salisbury (1895) , p. 13), the brass plates of Laban Salisbury (1895) , p. 13, the vessel in which the gold was melted, a rolling machine for gold plates, and three balls of gold as large as a fist Harris (1833) , p. 253.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

  •  Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The wiki editor has used a source which does not support the claim made in the main text.
  • Harris (1833) , p. 255 The third-hand account by Abigail Harris published in Mormonism Unvailed has some obvious problems, and there is nothing to support the idea that the vessel in which the gold was melted, a rolling machine and three balls of gold were found inside the box. Instead, the source notes that Joseph saw these items by "looking through his stone." The items described, and the plates "so heavy that it would take four stout men to load them into a cart" appear to be related to the story of the plates being returned to a cave in the Hill Cumorah. Here is what the source actually states:

They said that the plates he then had in possession were but an introduction to the Gold Bible—that all of them upon which the bible was written, were so heavy that it would take four stout men to load them into a cart—that Joseph had also discovered by looking through his stone, the vessel in which the gold was melted from which the plates were made, and also the machine with which they were rolled; he also discovered in the bottom of the vessel three balls of gold, each as large as his fist.


Notes

  1. ↑ Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 1:11–12, footnote 2. Volume 1 link
  2. ↑ Eber Dudley Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press, 1834), 277.

References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"

Further reading

Mormonism and Wikipedia



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FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles

FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.

Who can edit Wikipedia articles?

Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.

Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles

FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)

Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?

Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.

Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?

Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.

Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?

Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.

FairMormon's analysis of LDS-related Wikipedia articles

We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:

  1. Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
  2. Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
  3. Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
  4. If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
  5. If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"

Roger Nicholson,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)
The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.

Click here to view the complete article

Wikipedia and anti-Mormon literature
Key sources
  • Roger Nicholson, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That 'Anyone Can Edit'," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 1/8 (14 September 2012). [151–190] link
Wiki links
Online
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