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Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Sealed portion"
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| − | + | {{Main Page}} | |
| − | {{ | + | {{H1 |
| − | | | + | |L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Sealed portion |
| − | | | + | |H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - "Sealed" portion |
| − | | | + | |T=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" |
| − | | | + | |A=Various |
| − | | | + | |<=[[../Composition and weight|Described composition and weight]] |
| − | | | + | |>=[[../Claimed engravings|Claimed engravings]] |
| − | |||
}} | }} | ||
| + | <!-- INSERT CHART HERE --> | ||
| + | <onlyinclude> | ||
| + | {{H2 | ||
| + | |L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Sealed portion | ||
| + | |H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - "Sealed" portion | ||
| + | |S= | ||
| + | |L1=Response to claim: "According to Joseph Smith and others, the book of Golden Plates contained a 'sealed" portion'" | ||
| + | |L2=Response to claim: "containing 'a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof'" | ||
| + | |L3=Response to claim: "the language of the Book of Mormon may be interpreted to describe a sealing that was spiritual, metaphorical" | ||
| + | |L4=Response to claim: "physical, or a combination of these elements" | ||
| + | |L5=Response to claim: "The Book of Mormon refers to other documents and plates as being 'sealed'" | ||
| + | |L6=Response to claim: "separate records of John the Apostle were 'sealed up'" | ||
| + | |L7=Response to claim: "One set of plates to which the Book of Mormon refers was 'sealed up'" | ||
| + | |L8=Response to claim: "Smith may have understood the sealing to be a supernatural or spiritual sealing" | ||
| + | |L9=Response to claim: "the 'interpreters' (Urim and Thummim) with which Smith said they were buried or 'sealed'" | ||
| + | |L10=Response to claim: "when Smith visited the hill, he was stricken by a supernatural force because the plates were 'sealed by the prayer of faith'" | ||
| + | |L11=Response to claim: "Several witnesses described a physical sealing placed on part of the plates" | ||
| + | |L12=Response to claim: "the "sealed" part of the plates were held together as a solid mass" | ||
| + | |L13=Response to claim: "'as solid to my view as wood'" | ||
| + | |L14=Response to claim: "there were 'perceptible marks where the plates appeared to be sealed'" | ||
| + | |L15=Response to claim: "with leaves "so securely bound that it was impossible to separate them" | ||
| + | |L16=Response to claim: "Lucy Mack Smith said that some of the plates were 'sealed together'" | ||
| + | |L17=Response to claim: "The account of the Eight Witnesses says they saw the plates in 1829...implying that they did not examine untranslated parts, such as the sealed portion" | ||
| + | |L18=Response to claim: "In one interview, David Whitmer said that "about half" the book was unsealed; in 1881, he said "about one-third" was unsealed" | ||
| + | |L19=Response to claim: "Whitmer's 1881 statement is consistent with an 1856 statement by Orson Pratt" | ||
| + | |L20=Response to claim: "Orson Pratt said:, 'about two-thirds were sealed up, and Joseph was commanded not to break the seal'" | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | </onlyinclude> | ||
| + | =={{WikipediaUpdate|9/21/2011}}== | ||
| − | = | + | ==Section review== |
==="Sealed" portion=== | ==="Sealed" portion=== | ||
| − | {{ | + | ==Response to claim: "According to Joseph Smith and others, the book of Golden Plates contained a 'sealed" portion'"== |
| − | = | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | || | + | According to Joseph Smith and others, the book of Golden Plates contained a "sealed" portion |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | + | #{{Harvtxt|Smith|1842|p=707}} | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{information}} | |
| − | |||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "containing 'a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof'"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | containing "a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof." | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | *{{WikipediaOR}} For some reason, the wiki editors | + | #Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 27:7. The "sealing" of apocalyptic revelations in a book has precedents in the [[Bible]]. See, for example, Isaiah 29:11, Daniel 12:4, and Revelation 5:1–5. The Book of Mormon states that this vision was originally given to the [[Brother of Jared]], recorded by Ether on a set of 24 plates later found by [[Limhi]], and then "sealed up". Book of Mormon, Ether 1:2. According to this account, [[Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet)|Moroni]] copied the plates of Limhi onto the sealed portion of the Golden Plates. |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{misinformation| | |
| + | *{{WikipediaOR}} For some reason, the wiki editors are muddling the fact that witnesses reported that a number of the plates were physically bound together so that they could not be read. Instead, they perform a bit of original research by bringing in various Bible and Book of Mormon verses to put forth the idea that the "sealing" might not have been physical. Wikipedia requires secondary sources in order to advance ideas such as those presented in the footnote. There are no secondary sources given that make the associations given by the wiki editors. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "the language of the Book of Mormon may be interpreted to describe a sealing that was spiritual, metaphorical"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | Smith never described the nature of the seal, and the language of the [[Book of Mormon]] may be interpreted to describe a sealing that was spiritual, metaphorical, | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| + | #i.e. that the book was "sealed" in the sense that its contents were hidden or kept from public knowledge | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{misinformation| | ||
*{{WikipediaCITE}} There seems to be some attempt here to obfuscate the nature of the sealed portion by conflating witness descriptions with other types of "sealing" described in the Book of Mormon. | *{{WikipediaCITE}} There seems to be some attempt here to obfuscate the nature of the sealed portion by conflating witness descriptions with other types of "sealing" described in the Book of Mormon. | ||
*From {{Harvtxt|Smith|1842}}. Joseph Smith is describing the physical appearance of the plates: | *From {{Harvtxt|Smith|1842}}. Joseph Smith is describing the physical appearance of the plates: | ||
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These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters and bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called "Urim and Thummim," which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. | These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters and bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called "Urim and Thummim," which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
| − | *{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}}Note the clear description that a portion of the plates were | + | *{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}}Note the clear description that a portion of the plates were sealed. Joseph is very clearly describing the physical aspects of the plates. To state, as the main wiki text does, that he "never described the nature of the seal" is simply incorrect. For the wiki editor to imply that Joseph needed to be more ''precise'' in his description of a physical seal without providing any supporting citation constitutes original research. |
| − | + | }} | |
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| − | ==== | + | ==Response to claim: "physical, or a combination of these elements"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | physical, or a combination of these elements. | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | *{{WikipediaOR | + | #}} |
| − | + | {{misinformation| | |
| − | + | *{{WikipediaOR}}This is an assertion made by the wiki editors which has no support from a reliable source. | |
| + | }} | ||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "The Book of Mormon refers to other documents and plates as being 'sealed'"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | + | The Book of Mormon refers to other documents and plates as being "sealed" to be revealed at some future time. For example, the [[Book of Mormon]] says the entire set of plates was "sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord" | |
| − | | | + | |authorsources=<br> |
| − | + | #{{Harv|Smith|1830|loc=title page}} | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{information}} | |
| − | ===== ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "separate records of John the Apostle were 'sealed up'"== |
| − | || | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | and that separate records of [[John the Apostle]] were "sealed up to come forth in their purity" in the [[end times]]. | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| + | #''Book of Mormon'', 1 Nephi 14:26 | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{information}} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==Response to claim: "One set of plates to which the Book of Mormon refers was 'sealed up'"== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
| + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | One set of plates to which the Book of Mormon refers was "sealed up" in the sense that they were written in a language that could not be read. | ||
| + | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| + | #Book of Mormon, Ether 3:22. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{misinformation| | ||
*{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}} | *{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}} | ||
| − | | | + | *{{s||Ether|3|22}} reads, |
| − | + | <blockquote> | |
| + | And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read. | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | *Note that the scripture says that "ye shall write them '''and''' shall seal them up," indicating that the seal and the "language that could not be read" are different things. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "Smith may have understood the sealing to be a supernatural or spiritual sealing"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | Smith may have understood the sealing to be a [[supernatural]] or spiritual sealing "by the power of God" (2 Nephi 27:10), | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | *{{ | + | #{{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998|pp=195–196}}. |
| − | *From the cited source, Quinn's ''opinion'' is that the seal was "a non-material restriction": | + | }} |
| + | {{misinformation| | ||
| + | *{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}}It should be noted that editor COgden originally wrote this as "supernatural or magical." | ||
| + | *{{WikipediaNPOV}}Quinn's interpretation, a minority opinion, is given precedence (i.e. it appears first) in the wiki article over statements of multiple eyewitnesses listed later, who simply stated that a portion of the plates were ''physically sealed''. | ||
| + | *{{WikipediaCITE}}From the cited source, Quinn's ''opinion'' is that the seal was "a non-material restriction": | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
Modern Mormons have often pictured a physical seal, especially when reading about the untranslated portion of the plates. This expectation appears in official LDS magazines as an illustration of a band of metal securing the leaves of the gold plates. Such a view was a parallel to the book described in Revelation 5:1, but the Book of Mormon nowhere describes a physical seal. Instead, the seal was a non-material restriction. "For the book shall be sealed by the power of God" (2 Ne. 27:10) | Modern Mormons have often pictured a physical seal, especially when reading about the untranslated portion of the plates. This expectation appears in official LDS magazines as an illustration of a band of metal securing the leaves of the gold plates. Such a view was a parallel to the book described in Revelation 5:1, but the Book of Mormon nowhere describes a physical seal. Instead, the seal was a non-material restriction. "For the book shall be sealed by the power of God" (2 Ne. 27:10) | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "the 'interpreters' (Urim and Thummim) with which Smith said they were buried or 'sealed'"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | an idea supported by a reference in the Book of Mormon to the "interpreters" ([[Seer stones and the Latter Day Saint movement|Urim and Thummim]]) with which Smith said they were buried or "sealed." | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | *{{ | + | #Book of Mormon, Ether 4:5. According to [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)|Martin Harris]], anyone who looked into the "interpreters", "except by the command of God", would "perish" {{Harv|Harris|1859|p=166}}. |
| − | *{{WikipediaCITE}}Harris' statement is tangential and has nothing whatsoever to do with a portion of the plates being sealed. | + | }} |
| − | *{{ | + | {{misinformation| |
| − | + | *{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}}Wikipedia editors are not supposed to directly interpret primary sources. To draw a conclusion and say that something is "supported by a reference" in the Book of Mormon violates this. | |
| − | + | *{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=101898151&oldid=101882661}}Harris' statement is tangential and has nothing whatsoever to do with a portion of the plates being sealed. | |
| + | *{{Detail_old|Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Viewing gold plates would result in death}} | ||
| + | }} | ||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "when Smith visited the hill, he was stricken by a supernatural force because the plates were 'sealed by the prayer of faith'"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | Oliver Cowdery also stated that when Smith visited the hill, he was stricken by a supernatural force because the plates were "sealed by the prayer of faith." | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | *{{WikipediaOR}} The wiki authors continue to throw in every use of the word "sealed" that can be found in an attempt to somehow demonstrate confusion on the part of witnesses regarding the sealed portion of the plates. | + | #{{Harvtxt|Cowdery|1835b|p=198}}. |
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{misinformation| | ||
| + | *{{WikipediaOR}} The wiki authors continue to throw in every use of the word "sealed" that can be found in an apparent attempt to somehow demonstrate confusion on the part of witnesses regarding the sealed portion of the plates. | ||
*From the cited source: | *From the cited source: | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
| Line 126: | Line 175: | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
*Oliver was clearly not referring to the sealed portion of the plates that was described by witnesses—he was referring to the value of the record contained on the entire set of plates. | *Oliver was clearly not referring to the sealed portion of the plates that was described by witnesses—he was referring to the value of the record contained on the entire set of plates. | ||
| − | | | + | }} |
| − | | | + | |
| + | ==Response to claim: "Several witnesses described a physical sealing placed on part of the plates"== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
| + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | Several witnesses described a physical sealing placed on part of the plates by Mormon or Moroni. [[David Whitmer]] said that when an angel showed him the plates in 1829, "a large portion of the leaves were so securely bound together that it was impossible to separate them," | ||
| + | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| + | #David Whitmer interview, Chicago Tribune, 24 January 1888, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 221. Near the end of his life, Whitmer said that one section of the book was "loose, in plates, the other solid". {{Harvtxt|Storey|1881}}. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{information|Finally, after all of the various and sundry descriptions of the word "sealed" given above, the wiki editors finally reach the point at which they report what witnesses actually said—that a number of the plates were bound together in a manner that would not allow them to be read. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==Response to claim: "the "sealed" part of the plates were held together as a solid mass"== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
| + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | that the "sealed" part of the plates were held together as a solid mass "stationary and immovable," | ||
| + | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| + | #{{Harvtxt|Cole|1831}} | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{information}} | ||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "'as solid to my view as wood'"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | "as solid to my view as wood," | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | + | #{{Harvtxt|Poulson|1878}}. | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{information}} | |
| − | == | + | ==Response to claim: "there were 'perceptible marks where the plates appeared to be sealed'"== |
| − | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | + | and that there were "perceptible marks where the plates appeared to be sealed" | |
| − | | | + | |authorsources=<br> |
| − | + | #{{Harvtxt|Storey|1881}} | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{information}} | |
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| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "with leaves "so securely bound that it was impossible to separate them"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | with leaves "so securely bound that it was impossible to separate them." | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | + | #{{Harvtxt|Whitmer|1888}}. [[Orson Pratt]], who said he had spoken with many witnesses of the plates,{{Harv|Pratt|1859|p=30}}, assumed that Joseph Smith could "break the seal" if only he had been "permitted" {{Harv|Pratt|1877|pp=211–12}}. | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{misinformation| | |
| − | + | *{{WikipediaCITE}} Orson Pratt did not "assume" anything. The cited source states: | |
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| − | *{{ | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
A great many, in reading this record carelessly, would wonder why it was that a part of these plates should be sealed, and why Joseph Smith should not be permitted to break the seal. It was because, in this great revelation, the sealed portion of the plates from which the Book of Mormon was taken, contained this great vision, given to the brother of Jared. Joseph was not permitted to translate it, neither to break the seal of the book; it is to be reserved to come forth in due time. <br> | A great many, in reading this record carelessly, would wonder why it was that a part of these plates should be sealed, and why Joseph Smith should not be permitted to break the seal. It was because, in this great revelation, the sealed portion of the plates from which the Book of Mormon was taken, contained this great vision, given to the brother of Jared. Joseph was not permitted to translate it, neither to break the seal of the book; it is to be reserved to come forth in due time. <br> | ||
({{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Pratt|vol=19|disc=33|start=212|date=1877}}) | ({{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Pratt|vol=19|disc=33|start=212|date=1877}}) | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "Lucy Mack Smith said that some of the plates were 'sealed together'"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | In 1842, [[Lucy Mack Smith]] said that some of the plates were "sealed together" while others were "loose." | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | + | #{{Harvtxt|Smith|1842b|p=27}}. | |
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | {{information}} | |
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| − | ===== ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "The account of the Eight Witnesses says they saw the plates in 1829...implying that they did not examine untranslated parts, such as the sealed portion"== |
| − | || | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | The account of the [[Eight Witnesses]] says they saw the plates in 1829 and handled "as many of the leaves as [Joseph] Smith has translated," implying that they did not examine untranslated parts, such as the sealed portion. | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | *{{ | + | #{{Harvtxt|Smith|1830|loc=appx}} |
| − | | | + | }} |
| − | | | + | {{information}} |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ==Response to claim: "In one interview, David Whitmer said that "about half" the book was unsealed; in 1881, he said "about one-third" was unsealed"== | |
| − | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | + | |claim= | |
| − | + | In one interview, David Whitmer said that "about half" the book was unsealed; in 1881, he said "about one-third" was unsealed. | |
| + | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| + | #{{Harvtxt|Cole|1831}}; {{Harvtxt|Poulson|1878}} | ||
| + | *{{Harvtxt|Storey|1881}} | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{propaganda| | ||
*{{WikipediaNPOV}}The wiki editors deliberately juxtapose two accounts given 50 years apart in order to make a point that David Whitmer is inconsistent in his story. | *{{WikipediaNPOV}}The wiki editors deliberately juxtapose two accounts given 50 years apart in order to make a point that David Whitmer is inconsistent in his story. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | ===== | + | ==Response to claim: "Whitmer's 1881 statement is consistent with an 1856 statement by Orson Pratt"== |
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
| − | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
| − | + | Whitmer's 1881 statement is consistent with an 1856 statement by [[Orson Pratt]], an associate of Smith's who never saw the plates himself but who had spoken with witnesses, | |
| − | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
| − | + | #{{Harvtxt|Pratt|1859|p=30}}. | |
| − | ===== | + | }} |
| − | | | + | {{information}} |
| − | + | ||
| − | | | + | ==Response to claim: "Orson Pratt said:, 'about two-thirds were sealed up, and Joseph was commanded not to break the seal'"== |
| − | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
| − | {{ | + | |title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates" |
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | that "about two-thirds" of the plates were "sealed up". | ||
| + | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| + | #{{Harvtxt|Pratt|1856|p=347}}. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | {{information|Orson Pratt said: | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | ...about two-thirds were sealed up, and Joseph was commanded not to break the seal; <br> | ||
| + | ({{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Pratt|vol=3|disc=49|start=347|date=1856}}) | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | }} | ||
==References== | ==References== | ||
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}} | {{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}} | ||
| + | |||
| + | =={{Further reading label}}== | ||
| + | {{MormonismAndWikipedia}} | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{suggestions}} | ||
Latest revision as of 00:04, 31 May 2024
An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - "Sealed" portion
| Described composition and weight | A FAIR Analysis of: Wikipedia article "Golden plates", a work by author: Various
|
Claimed engravings |
An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - "Sealed" portion
Jump to details:
- Response to claim: "According to Joseph Smith and others, the book of Golden Plates contained a 'sealed" portion'"
- Response to claim: "containing 'a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof'"
- Response to claim: "the language of the Book of Mormon may be interpreted to describe a sealing that was spiritual, metaphorical"
- Response to claim: "physical, or a combination of these elements"
- Response to claim: "The Book of Mormon refers to other documents and plates as being 'sealed'"
- Response to claim: "separate records of John the Apostle were 'sealed up'"
- Response to claim: "One set of plates to which the Book of Mormon refers was 'sealed up'"
- Response to claim: "Smith may have understood the sealing to be a supernatural or spiritual sealing"
- Response to claim: "the 'interpreters' (Urim and Thummim) with which Smith said they were buried or 'sealed'"
- Response to claim: "when Smith visited the hill, he was stricken by a supernatural force because the plates were 'sealed by the prayer of faith'"
- Response to claim: "Several witnesses described a physical sealing placed on part of the plates"
- Response to claim: "the "sealed" part of the plates were held together as a solid mass"
- Response to claim: "'as solid to my view as wood'"
- Response to claim: "there were 'perceptible marks where the plates appeared to be sealed'"
- Response to claim: "with leaves "so securely bound that it was impossible to separate them"
- Response to claim: "Lucy Mack Smith said that some of the plates were 'sealed together'"
- Response to claim: "The account of the Eight Witnesses says they saw the plates in 1829...implying that they did not examine untranslated parts, such as the sealed portion"
- Response to claim: "In one interview, David Whitmer said that "about half" the book was unsealed; in 1881, he said "about one-third" was unsealed"
- Response to claim: "Whitmer's 1881 statement is consistent with an 1856 statement by Orson Pratt"
- Response to claim: "Orson Pratt said:, 'about two-thirds were sealed up, and Joseph was commanded not to break the seal'"
Updated 9/21/2011
Section review
"Sealed" portion
Response to claim: "According to Joseph Smith and others, the book of Golden Plates contained a 'sealed" portion'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
According to Joseph Smith and others, the book of Golden Plates contained a "sealed" portionAuthor's sources:
- Smith (1842) , p. 707
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "containing 'a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
containing "a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof."Author's sources:
- Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 27:7. The "sealing" of apocalyptic revelations in a book has precedents in the Bible. See, for example, Isaiah 29:11, Daniel 12:4, and Revelation 5:1–5. The Book of Mormon states that this vision was originally given to the Brother of Jared, recorded by Ether on a set of 24 plates later found by Limhi, and then "sealed up". Book of Mormon, Ether 1:2. According to this account, Moroni copied the plates of Limhi onto the sealed portion of the Golden Plates.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
For some reason, the wiki editors are muddling the fact that witnesses reported that a number of the plates were physically bound together so that they could not be read. Instead, they perform a bit of original research by bringing in various Bible and Book of Mormon verses to put forth the idea that the "sealing" might not have been physical. Wikipedia requires secondary sources in order to advance ideas such as those presented in the footnote. There are no secondary sources given that make the associations given by the wiki editors.
Response to claim: "the language of the Book of Mormon may be interpreted to describe a sealing that was spiritual, metaphorical"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
Smith never described the nature of the seal, and the language of the Book of Mormon may be interpreted to describe a sealing that was spiritual, metaphorical,
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
There seems to be some attempt here to obfuscate the nature of the sealed portion by conflating witness descriptions with other types of "sealing" described in the Book of Mormon. - From Smith (1842) . Joseph Smith is describing the physical appearance of the plates:
These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters and bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called "Urim and Thummim," which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site
Note the clear description that a portion of the plates were sealed. Joseph is very clearly describing the physical aspects of the plates. To state, as the main wiki text does, that he "never described the nature of the seal" is simply incorrect. For the wiki editor to imply that Joseph needed to be more precise in his description of a physical seal without providing any supporting citation constitutes original research.
Response to claim: "physical, or a combination of these elements"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
physical, or a combination of these elements.Author's sources:
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
This is an assertion made by the wiki editors which has no support from a reliable source.
Response to claim: "The Book of Mormon refers to other documents and plates as being 'sealed'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
The Book of Mormon refers to other documents and plates as being "sealed" to be revealed at some future time. For example, the Book of Mormon says the entire set of plates was "sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord"Author's sources:
- Smith (1830)
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "separate records of John the Apostle were 'sealed up'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
and that separate records of John the Apostle were "sealed up to come forth in their purity" in the end times.Author's sources:
- Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:26
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "One set of plates to which the Book of Mormon refers was 'sealed up'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
One set of plates to which the Book of Mormon refers was "sealed up" in the sense that they were written in a language that could not be read.Author's sources:
- Book of Mormon, Ether 3:22.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site - Ether 3꞉22 reads,
And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.
- Note that the scripture says that "ye shall write them and shall seal them up," indicating that the seal and the "language that could not be read" are different things.
Response to claim: "Smith may have understood the sealing to be a supernatural or spiritual sealing"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
Smith may have understood the sealing to be a supernatural or spiritual sealing "by the power of God" (2 Nephi 27:10),Author's sources:
- Quinn (1998) , pp. 195–196.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site
It should be noted that editor COgden originally wrote this as "supernatural or magical." - Violates Wikipedia: Neutral Point-of-View off-site— All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources.
Quinn's interpretation, a minority opinion, is given precedence (i.e. it appears first) in the wiki article over statements of multiple eyewitnesses listed later, who simply stated that a portion of the plates were physically sealed. - Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
From the cited source, Quinn's opinion is that the seal was "a non-material restriction":
Modern Mormons have often pictured a physical seal, especially when reading about the untranslated portion of the plates. This expectation appears in official LDS magazines as an illustration of a band of metal securing the leaves of the gold plates. Such a view was a parallel to the book described in Revelation 5:1, but the Book of Mormon nowhere describes a physical seal. Instead, the seal was a non-material restriction. "For the book shall be sealed by the power of God" (2 Ne. 27:10)
Response to claim: "the 'interpreters' (Urim and Thummim) with which Smith said they were buried or 'sealed'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
an idea supported by a reference in the Book of Mormon to the "interpreters" (Urim and Thummim) with which Smith said they were buried or "sealed."Author's sources:
- Book of Mormon, Ether 4:5. According to Martin Harris, anyone who looked into the "interpreters", "except by the command of God", would "perish" Harris (1859) , p. 166.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site
Wikipedia editors are not supposed to directly interpret primary sources. To draw a conclusion and say that something is "supported by a reference" in the Book of Mormon violates this. - Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site
Harris' statement is tangential and has nothing whatsoever to do with a portion of the plates being sealed. - For a detailed response, see: Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Viewing gold plates would result in death
Response to claim: "when Smith visited the hill, he was stricken by a supernatural force because the plates were 'sealed by the prayer of faith'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
Oliver Cowdery also stated that when Smith visited the hill, he was stricken by a supernatural force because the plates were "sealed by the prayer of faith."Author's sources:
- Cowdery (1835b) , p. 198.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
The wiki authors continue to throw in every use of the word "sealed" that can be found in an apparent attempt to somehow demonstrate confusion on the part of witnesses regarding the sealed portion of the plates. - From the cited source:
You now see why you could not obtain this record; that the commandment was strict, and that if ever these sacred things are obtained they must be by prayer and faithfulness in obeying the Lord. They are not deposited here for the sake of accumulating gain and wealth for the glory of this world: they were sealed by the prayer of faith, and because of the knowledge which they contain they are of no worth among the children of men, only for their knowledge.
- Oliver was clearly not referring to the sealed portion of the plates that was described by witnesses—he was referring to the value of the record contained on the entire set of plates.
Response to claim: "Several witnesses described a physical sealing placed on part of the plates"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
Several witnesses described a physical sealing placed on part of the plates by Mormon or Moroni. David Whitmer said that when an angel showed him the plates in 1829, "a large portion of the leaves were so securely bound together that it was impossible to separate them,"Author's sources:
- David Whitmer interview, Chicago Tribune, 24 January 1888, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 221. Near the end of his life, Whitmer said that one section of the book was "loose, in plates, the other solid". Storey (1881) .
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Finally, after all of the various and sundry descriptions of the word "sealed" given above, the wiki editors finally reach the point at which they report what witnesses actually said—that a number of the plates were bound together in a manner that would not allow them to be read.
Response to claim: "the "sealed" part of the plates were held together as a solid mass"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
that the "sealed" part of the plates were held together as a solid mass "stationary and immovable,"Author's sources:
- Cole (1831)
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "'as solid to my view as wood'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
"as solid to my view as wood,"Author's sources:
- Poulson (1878) .
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "there were 'perceptible marks where the plates appeared to be sealed'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
and that there were "perceptible marks where the plates appeared to be sealed"Author's sources:
- Storey (1881)
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "with leaves "so securely bound that it was impossible to separate them"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
with leaves "so securely bound that it was impossible to separate them."Author's sources:
- Whitmer (1888) . Orson Pratt, who said he had spoken with many witnesses of the plates,Pratt (1859) , p. 30, assumed that Joseph Smith could "break the seal" if only he had been "permitted" Pratt (1877) , pp. 211–12.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
- Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
Orson Pratt did not "assume" anything. The cited source states:
A great many, in reading this record carelessly, would wonder why it was that a part of these plates should be sealed, and why Joseph Smith should not be permitted to break the seal. It was because, in this great revelation, the sealed portion of the plates from which the Book of Mormon was taken, contained this great vision, given to the brother of Jared. Joseph was not permitted to translate it, neither to break the seal of the book; it is to be reserved to come forth in due time.
(Orson Pratt, (1877) Journal of Discourses 19:212.)
Response to claim: "Lucy Mack Smith said that some of the plates were 'sealed together'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
In 1842, Lucy Mack Smith said that some of the plates were "sealed together" while others were "loose."Author's sources:
- Smith (1842b) , p. 27.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "The account of the Eight Witnesses says they saw the plates in 1829...implying that they did not examine untranslated parts, such as the sealed portion"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
The account of the Eight Witnesses says they saw the plates in 1829 and handled "as many of the leaves as [Joseph] Smith has translated," implying that they did not examine untranslated parts, such as the sealed portion.Author's sources:
- Smith (1830)
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "In one interview, David Whitmer said that "about half" the book was unsealed; in 1881, he said "about one-third" was unsealed"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
In one interview, David Whitmer said that "about half" the book was unsealed; in 1881, he said "about one-third" was unsealed.Author's sources:
- Cole (1831) ; Poulson (1878)
- Storey (1881)
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
- Violates Wikipedia: Neutral Point-of-View off-site— All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources.
The wiki editors deliberately juxtapose two accounts given 50 years apart in order to make a point that David Whitmer is inconsistent in his story.
Response to claim: "Whitmer's 1881 statement is consistent with an 1856 statement by Orson Pratt"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
Whitmer's 1881 statement is consistent with an 1856 statement by Orson Pratt, an associate of Smith's who never saw the plates himself but who had spoken with witnesses,Author's sources:
- Pratt (1859) , p. 30.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Response to claim: "Orson Pratt said:, 'about two-thirds were sealed up, and Joseph was commanded not to break the seal'"
The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:
that "about two-thirds" of the plates were "sealed up".Author's sources:
- Pratt (1856) , p. 347.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event
Orson Pratt said:...about two-thirds were sealed up, and Joseph was commanded not to break the seal;
(Orson Pratt, (1856) Journal of Discourses 3:347.)
References
| Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates" |
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Further reading
Mormonism and Wikipedia
FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles
FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.
Who can edit Wikipedia articles?
Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.
Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles
FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)
Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?
Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.
Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?
Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.
Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?
Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.
We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:
- Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
- Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
- Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
- If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
- If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.
Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"
Roger Nicholson, Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.
Click here to view the complete article
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