Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Format"

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=={{WikipediaUpdate|9/21/2011}}==
  
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=An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" (Version December 10, 2009)=
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==Section review==
 
===Described format, binding, and dimensions===
 
===Described format, binding, and dimensions===
  
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{{BeginWikipediaTable|link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates|section=|article=Golden plates}}
 
 
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{{IndexClaimItemShort
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*The plates were said to be bound at one edge by a set of rings. In 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)|Martin Harris]], is reported to have said that the plates were "fastened together in the shape of a book by wires".
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*{{Harvtxt|Anthon|1834|p=270}}.
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The plates were said to be bound at one edge by a set of rings. In 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)|Martin Harris]], is reported to have said that the plates were "fastened together in the shape of a book by wires".
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#{{Harvtxt|Anthon|1834|p=270}}.
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*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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* In 1859 Harris said that the plates "were seven inches [18 cm] wide by eight inches [20 cm] in length, and were of the thickness of plates of tin; and when piled one above the other, they were altogether about four inches [10 cm] thick; and they were put together on the back by three silver rings, so that they would open like a book".
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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*{{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=165}}.
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In 1859 Harris said that the plates "were seven inches [18 cm] wide by eight inches [20 cm] in length, and were of the thickness of plates of tin; and when piled one above the other, they were altogether about four inches [10 cm] thick; and they were put together on the back by three silver rings, so that they would open like a book".
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|authorsources=<br>
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#{{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=165}}.
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*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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* [[David Whitmer]], another of the [[Three Witnesses]], was quoted by an 1831 Palmyra newspaper as having said the plates were "the thickness of tin plate; the back was secured with three small rings...passing through each leaf in succession".
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*{{Harvtxt|Cole|1831}}.
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[[David Whitmer]], another of the [[Three Witnesses]], was quoted by an 1831 Palmyra newspaper as having said the plates were "the thickness of tin plate; the back was secured with three small rings...passing through each leaf in succession".
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|authorsources=<br>
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#{{Harvtxt|Cole|1831}}.
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|authorsources=<br>
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#
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}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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* Anomalously, [[Joseph Smith, Sr.|Smith's father]] is quoted as saying that the plates were only half an inch (1.27 centimeter) thick.
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*{{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=307}}.
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Anomalously, [[Joseph Smith, Sr.|Smith's father]] is quoted as saying that the plates were only half an inch (1.27 centimeter) thick.
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|authorsources=<br>
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*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=105053495&oldid=105052656}} Joseph Smith's father is not "quoted" at all in the cited source. These are the words of Fayette Lapham from the cited source:
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#{{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=307}}.
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|authorsources=<br>
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#
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}}
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*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=105053495&oldid=105052656}} Joseph Smith's father is not "quoted" at all in the cited source. These are the words of Fayette Lapham,
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
 
In answer to our question, as to what it was that Joseph had thus obtained, he said it consisted of a set of gold plates, about six inches wide, and nine or ten inches long. They were in the form of a book, half an inch thick, but were not bound at the back, like our books, but were held together by several gold rings, in such a way that the plates could be opened similar to a book. Under the first plate, or lid, he found a pair of spectacles, about one and a half inches longer than those used at the present day, the eyes not of glass, but of diamond. On the next page were representations of all the masonic implements, as used by masons at the present day. {{link|url=http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Historical_Magazine_(second_series)/Volume_7/May_1870/Interview_with_the_Father_of_Joseph_Smith&oldid=314358}}
 
In answer to our question, as to what it was that Joseph had thus obtained, he said it consisted of a set of gold plates, about six inches wide, and nine or ten inches long. They were in the form of a book, half an inch thick, but were not bound at the back, like our books, but were held together by several gold rings, in such a way that the plates could be opened similar to a book. Under the first plate, or lid, he found a pair of spectacles, about one and a half inches longer than those used at the present day, the eyes not of glass, but of diamond. On the next page were representations of all the masonic implements, as used by masons at the present day. {{link|url=http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Historical_Magazine_(second_series)/Volume_7/May_1870/Interview_with_the_Father_of_Joseph_Smith&oldid=314358}}
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
 
*One ought to note that Lapham's retelling of Joseph Smith Senior's story includes a ''number'' of anomalies.
 
*One ought to note that Lapham's retelling of Joseph Smith Senior's story includes a ''number'' of anomalies.
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* [[Lucy Mack Smith|Smith's mother]], who said she had "seen and handled" the plates, is quoted as saying they were "eight inches [20 cm] long, and six [15 cm] wide...all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate".
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1842b|p=27}}
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[[Lucy Mack Smith|Smith's mother]], who said she had "seen and handled" the plates, is quoted as saying they were "eight inches [20 cm] long, and six [15 cm] wide...all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate".
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#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1842b|p=27}}
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|authorsources=<br>
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#
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*From the cited source, quoting Lucy Mack Smith:
 +
<blockquote>
 +
I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate, and are covered with letters beautifully engraved.
 +
</blockquote>
 +
*Note also the clear description that a portion of the plates were physically sealed: "some...are not to be opened, and some of them are loose."
 +
}}
 +
 
 
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{{IndexClaimItemShort
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* [[Hyrum Smith]] and [[John Whitmer]], also [[Eight Witnesses|witnesses in 1829]], are reported to have stated that the rings holding the plates together were, in Hyrum's words, "in the shape of the letter D, which facilitated the opening and shutting of the book".
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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*Statement by Hyrum Smith as reported by William E. McLellin in the ''Huron Reflector'', October 31, 1831. See also {{Harvtxt|Poulson|1878|}}.
+
[[Hyrum Smith]] and [[John Whitmer]], also [[Eight Witnesses|witnesses in 1829]], are reported to have stated that the rings holding the plates together were, in Hyrum's words, "in the shape of the letter D, which facilitated the opening and shutting of the book".
−
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|authorsources=<br>
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#Statement by Hyrum Smith as reported by William E. McLellin in the ''Huron Reflector'', October 31, 1831. See also {{Harvtxt|Poulson|1878|}}.
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*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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* Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith|Emma]] and his younger brother [[William Smith (Mormonism)|William]] said they had examined the plates while wrapped in fabric. Emma said she "felt of the plates, as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book".
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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|claim=
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*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1879}}
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Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith|Emma]] and his younger brother [[William Smith (Mormonism)|William]] said they had examined the plates while wrapped in fabric. Emma said she "felt of the plates, as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book".
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|authorsources=<br>
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#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1879}}
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|authorsources=<br>
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#
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*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
 
*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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* William agreed that the plates could be rustled with one's thumb like the pages of a book.
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1884}}.
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William agreed that the plates could be rustled with one's thumb like the pages of a book.
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#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1884}}.
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|authorsources=<br>
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*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=99603718&oldid=99395754}} There is a bit of creative license being taken here. The cited source does not state that the "plates could be rustled with one's thumb like the pages of a book," nor does it state that William "agreed" with another source.
 +
*From the cited source:
 +
<blockquote>
 +
When the plates were brought in they were wrapped in a tow frock. My father then put them into a pillow case. Father said, "What, Joseph, can we not see them?" "No, I was disobedient the first time, but I intend to be faithful this time; for I was forbidden to show them until they are translated, but you can feel them." We handled them and could tell what they were. They were not quite as large as this Bible. Could tell whether they were round or square. Could raise the leaves this way (raising a few leaves of the Bible before him). One could easily tell that they were not a stone, hewn out to deceive, or even a block of wood. Being a mixture of gold and copper, they were much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood. <br>
 +
&mdash;THE OLD SOLDIER'S TESTIMONY. Sermon preached by Bro. William B. Smith, in the Saints' Chapel, Deloit. Iowa, June 8th, 1884. Reported by C. Butterworth.
 +
</blockquote>
 +
}}
 +
 
 
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===== =====
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{{IndexClaimItemShort
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* Joseph Smith did not provide his own published description of the plates until 1842, when he said in a letter that "each plate was six inches [15 cm] wide and eight inches [20 cm] long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were...bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches [15 cm] in thickness".
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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|claim=
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*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1842}}.
+
Joseph Smith did not provide his own published description of the plates until 1842, when he said in a letter that "each plate was six inches [15 cm] wide and eight inches [20 cm] long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were...bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches [15 cm] in thickness".
−
{{EndTable}}
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|authorsources=<br>
 +
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1842}}.
 +
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#
 +
}}
 +
*From the cited source:
 +
<blockquote>
 +
These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters and bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called "Urim and Thummim," which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.
 +
</blockquote>
 +
*Also note the clear description that a portion of the plates were physically sealed.
 +
}}
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
 
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}}
 
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}}
 +
 +
=={{Further reading label}}==
 +
{{MormonismAndWikipedia}}
 +
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{{suggestions}}

Latest revision as of 12:34, 13 April 2024

Contents

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Described format, binding, and dimensions



Witness accounts
A FAIR Analysis of: Wikipedia article "Golden plates", a work by author: Various
 		Described composition and weight

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Described format, binding, and dimensions



 Updated 9/21/2011

Section review

Described format, binding, and dimensions

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

The plates were said to be bound at one edge by a set of rings. In 1828, Martin Harris, is reported to have said that the plates were "fastened together in the shape of a book by wires".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Correct, per cited sources

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

In 1859 Harris said that the plates "were seven inches [18 cm] wide by eight inches [20 cm] in length, and were of the thickness of plates of tin; and when piled one above the other, they were altogether about four inches [10 cm] thick; and they were put together on the back by three silver rings, so that they would open like a book".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Correct, per cited sources

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

David Whitmer, another of the Three Witnesses, was quoted by an 1831 Palmyra newspaper as having said the plates were "the thickness of tin plate; the back was secured with three small rings...passing through each leaf in succession".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Correct, per cited sources

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Anomalously, Smith's father is quoted as saying that the plates were only half an inch (1.27 centimeter) thick.

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site
    Joseph Smith's father is not "quoted" at all in the cited source. These are the words of Fayette Lapham,

In answer to our question, as to what it was that Joseph had thus obtained, he said it consisted of a set of gold plates, about six inches wide, and nine or ten inches long. They were in the form of a book, half an inch thick, but were not bound at the back, like our books, but were held together by several gold rings, in such a way that the plates could be opened similar to a book. Under the first plate, or lid, he found a pair of spectacles, about one and a half inches longer than those used at the present day, the eyes not of glass, but of diamond. On the next page were representations of all the masonic implements, as used by masons at the present day. off-site

  • One ought to note that Lapham's retelling of Joseph Smith Senior's story includes a number of anomalies.

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith's mother, who said she had "seen and handled" the plates, is quoted as saying they were "eight inches [20 cm] long, and six [15 cm] wide...all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  • From the cited source, quoting Lucy Mack Smith:

I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate, and are covered with letters beautifully engraved.

  • Note also the clear description that a portion of the plates were physically sealed: "some...are not to be opened, and some of them are loose."

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Hyrum Smith and John Whitmer, also witnesses in 1829, are reported to have stated that the rings holding the plates together were, in Hyrum's words, "in the shape of the letter D, which facilitated the opening and shutting of the book".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Correct, per cited sources

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Joseph Smith's wife Emma and his younger brother William said they had examined the plates while wrapped in fabric. Emma said she "felt of the plates, as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Correct, per cited sources

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

William agreed that the plates could be rustled with one's thumb like the pages of a book.

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  •  Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site
    There is a bit of creative license being taken here. The cited source does not state that the "plates could be rustled with one's thumb like the pages of a book," nor does it state that William "agreed" with another source.
  • From the cited source:

When the plates were brought in they were wrapped in a tow frock. My father then put them into a pillow case. Father said, "What, Joseph, can we not see them?" "No, I was disobedient the first time, but I intend to be faithful this time; for I was forbidden to show them until they are translated, but you can feel them." We handled them and could tell what they were. They were not quite as large as this Bible. Could tell whether they were round or square. Could raise the leaves this way (raising a few leaves of the Bible before him). One could easily tell that they were not a stone, hewn out to deceive, or even a block of wood. Being a mixture of gold and copper, they were much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood.
—THE OLD SOLDIER'S TESTIMONY. Sermon preached by Bro. William B. Smith, in the Saints' Chapel, Deloit. Iowa, June 8th, 1884. Reported by C. Butterworth.

}}

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Joseph Smith did not provide his own published description of the plates until 1842, when he said in a letter that "each plate was six inches [15 cm] wide and eight inches [20 cm] long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were...bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches [15 cm] in thickness".

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  • From the cited source:

These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters and bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called "Urim and Thummim," which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.

  • Also note the clear description that a portion of the plates were physically sealed.

}}

References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"

Further reading

Mormonism and Wikipedia



<onlyinclude>


FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles

FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.

Who can edit Wikipedia articles?

Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.

Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles

FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)

Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?

Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.

Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?

Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.

Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?

Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.

FairMormon's analysis of LDS-related Wikipedia articles

We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:

  1. Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
  2. Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
  3. Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
  4. If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
  5. If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"

Roger Nicholson,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)
The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.

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Wikipedia and anti-Mormon literature
Key sources
  • Roger Nicholson, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That 'Anyone Can Edit'," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 1/8 (14 September 2012). [151–190] link
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