Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background"

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|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background
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|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background
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|S=
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|L1=Response to claim: "western New York became known as the 'burned-over district' because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often"
 +
|L2=Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'"
 +
|L3=Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"
 +
|L4=Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"
 +
|L5=Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"
 +
|L6=Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"
 +
|L7=Response to claim: "nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised"
 +
|L8=Response to claim: "He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a 'seer'"
 +
|L9=Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"
 +
|L10=Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg"
 +
|L11=Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"
 +
|L12=Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"
 +
}}
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</onlyinclude>
  
−
=An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" (Version December 10, 2009)=
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=={{WikipediaUpdate|9/21/2011}}==
 +
 
 +
==Section review==
 
===Background===
 
===Background===
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{{Main|Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr.}}
 
  
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{{BeginWikipediaTable|link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates|section=|article=Golden plates}}
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==Response to claim: "western New York became known as the 'burned-over district' because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often"==
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===== =====
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{{IndexClaimItemShort
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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*During the [[Second Great Awakening]], [[Joseph Smith, Jr.]] lived on his parents' farm near [[Palmyra (village), New York|Palmyra, New York]]. At the time churches in the region contended so vigorously for souls that western New York became known as the "[[burned-over district]]" because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
During the [[Second Great Awakening]], [[Joseph Smith, Jr.]] lived on his parents' farm near [[Palmyra (village), New York|Palmyra, New York]]. At the time churches in the region contended so vigorously for souls that western New York became known as the "[[burned-over district]]" because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often.
−
*Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 7
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|authorsources=<br>
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|-
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#Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 7
−
|
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}}
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===== =====
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{{information}}
−
||
+
 
−
* Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."
+
 
−
||
+
==Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'"==
−
*{{Harvtxt|Bennett|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998|pp=25–26}}.
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
|-
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
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|
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|claim=
−
===== =====
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Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."
−
||
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|authorsources=<br>
−
* Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a [[scrying|scryer]], using what were termed [[Seer stone (Latter Day Saints)|"seer stones"]] in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Bennett|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998|pp=25–26}}.
−
||
+
}}
−
*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").
+
{{information}}
−
|-
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{{:Question: Was Joseph Smith's participation in "money digging" as a youth a blot on his character?}}
−
|
+
 
−
===== =====
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==Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"==
−
||
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
* Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
−
||
+
|claim=
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*{{Harvtxt|Harris|1833|pp=253-54}}; {{Harvtxt|Hale|1834|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt|Clark|1842|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt|Turner|1851|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt|Tucker|1867|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt|Mather|1880|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.
+
Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
−
|-
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
|
+
#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").
−
===== =====
+
}}
−
||
+
{{information}}
−
*Smith did not consider himself to be a common "peeper" or [[crystal gazing|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."
+
{{:Question: Was "money digging" Joseph Smith, Jr's primary source of income during his early years?}}
−
||
+
 
−
*Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51,
+
==Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"==
−
|-
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{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
|
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|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
−
===== =====
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|claim=
−
||
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Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.
−
* Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
||
+
#{{Harvtxt|Harris|1833|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt|Hale|1834|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt|Clark|1842|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt|Turner|1851|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt|Tucker|1867|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt|Mather|1880|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.
−
*Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51.
+
}}
−
|-
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{{information}}
−
|
+
{{:Question: Did Joseph place his seer stone in his hat while looking for lost objects?}}
−
===== =====
+
 
−
||
+
==Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"==
−
*[[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business.  We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
||
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
−
*No citation provided.
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|claim=
−
||
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Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."
−
*{{WikipediaCitationAbuse}} The wiki editor has taken Lucy's statement, which is specifically noting that the family did ''not'' stop their labor in order to try to "win the faculty of Abrac," and instead converted it to
+
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51,}},
 +
}}
 +
{{information|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
the family did abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac..."  
+
Alva Hale, a son in the household where the Smiths stayed in Harmony while digging for Stowell, said Joseph Jr. told him that the "give in seeing with a stone" was "a gift from God" but that "' ''peeping'' ' was all d&ndash;d nonsense"; he had been deceived in his treasure seeking, but he did not intend to deceive anyone else....By this time, Joseph apparently felt that "seeing" with a stone was the work of a "seer," a religious term, while "peeping" or "glass-looking" was fraudulent.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
*The meaning of the citation (which isn't even provided) has been reversed by the wiki editor. Here's what Lucy actually said:
+
}}
 +
*{{Detail_old|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 +
|claim=
 +
Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.
 +
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business.  We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."
 +
}}
 +
{{information|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
I shall change my theme for the present but let not my reader suppose that because I shall pursue another topic for a season that we stopt our labor and went <at> trying to win the faculty of Abrac drawing Magic circles or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of bu[i]sness we never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remmember the service of & the welfare of our souls. (Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1845, quoted in ''Early Mormon Documents'' 1:285)
+
Lucy...showed her knowledge of formulas and rituals and associated them with "the welfare of our souls." Magic and religion melded in Smith family culture."
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
*Bushman notes in ''Rough Stone Rolling'', p. 50:
+
}}
 +
*{{Detail_old|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}
 +
 
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 +
|claim=
 +
Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.
 +
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.
 +
}}
 +
*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}
 +
{{misinformation|The wiki editor has taken "remnants of the magical culture" from the footnote and solidified them into the culture never having been "relinquished" in the main text.
 +
*From Bushman, p. 51:
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
Lucy recognized the crossover in prefacing her narrative of the plates with a caution against thinking "that we stopt our labor and went at trying to win the faculty of Abrac..."
+
Joseph Jr. never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to then end. But after 1823, he began to orient himself away from treasure and toward translation.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
+
*{{Detail_old|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic|Joseph Smith/Money digging|Joseph Smith/Seer stones}}
  
−
===== =====
+
 
−
||
+
==Response to claim: "He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a 'seer'"==
−
* Later, Smith would view the power of [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)|"seeing"]] as the greatest of all divine gifts, greater even than that of a [[prophet]].
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
||
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
−
*Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.
+
|claim=
−
||
+
He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",
−
*{{WikipediaOR}} The wiki editor is synthesizing a conclusion based upon a primary source (The Book of Mormon) regarding Joseph Smith's belief with respect to seers and prophets.
+
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|p=51}}.
 +
}}
 +
{{information}}
 +
*{{Detail_old|Joseph Smith/Seer stones}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 +
|claim=
 +
and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].
 +
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.
 +
}}
 +
*{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}  
 +
{{misinformation|The wiki editor is synthesizing a conclusion based upon a primary source (The Book of Mormon) regarding Joseph Smith's belief with respect to the relative importance of seers versus prophets.
 
*{{s||Mosiah|8|15-17}}:
 
*{{s||Mosiah|8|15-17}}:
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
Line 91: Line 154:
 
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.
 
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
 
  
−
===== =====
+
==Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg"==
−
||
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
* Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
−
||
+
|claim=
−
*{{WikipediaCitationAbuse}} The wiki editor has taken "remnants of the magical culture" from the footnote and solidified them into the culture never having been relinquished in the main text.
+
Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
−
||
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
*{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Roberts|1930|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.
−
*Bushman, p. 51:
+
}}
 +
{{information|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
Joseph Jr. never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to then end. But after 1823, he began to orient himself away from treasure and toward translation.
+
"To help him with the translation, Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.” '''Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone.'''" <br>&mdash;“A Peaceful Heart,” ''Friend'', Sep 1974, 7 {{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=5250e07368d9b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=21bc9fbee98db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}} {{ea}}
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
−
|-
+
}}
−
|
+
* {{Detail_old|Church_history/Censorship_and_revision/Hiding_the_facts|l1=Hiding folk magic or stone in official Church publications?}}
 +
 
 +
==Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"==
 +
{{IndexClaimItemShort
 +
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
 +
|claim=
 +
found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.
 +
|authorsources=<br>
 +
#{{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb|Tucker|1867|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb|Bennett|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv|Chase|1833|p=240}}.
 +
}}
 +
{{information}}
 +
{{Detail_old|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits#Willard Chase|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits&mdash;Willard Chase}}
  
−
===== =====
+
==Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"==
−
||
+
{{IndexClaimItemShort
−
* Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
+
|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
−
||
+
|claim=
−
*{{Harvtxt|Roberts|1930|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.<{{Citation needed|date=March 2009}}
+
This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].
−
|-
+
|authorsources=<br>
−
|
+
#[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.
−
===== =====
+
}}
−
||
+
{{information}}
−
* found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.
 
−
||
 
−
*{{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb|Tucker|1867|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb|Bennett|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv|Chase|1833|p=240}}.
 
−
|-
 
−
|
 
−
===== =====
 
−
||
 
−
* This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].
 
−
||
 
−
*[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.
 
−
{{EndTable}}
 
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
 
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}}
 
{{WikipediaRefList:Golden Plates}}
 +
 +
=={{Further reading label}}==
 +
{{MormonismAndWikipedia}}
 +
 +
{{suggestions}}

Latest revision as of 00:04, 31 May 2024

Contents

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background



Story
A FAIR Analysis of: Wikipedia article "Golden plates", a work by author: Various
 		Finding the plates

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background


Jump to details:


 Updated 9/21/2011

Section review

Background

Response to claim: "western New York became known as the 'burned-over district' because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

During the Second Great Awakening, Joseph Smith, Jr. lived on his parents' farm near Palmyra, New York. At the time churches in the region contended so vigorously for souls that western New York became known as the "burned-over district" because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often.

Author's sources:
  1. Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 7

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."

Author's sources:
  1. Bennett (1893) . The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century New England is described in Quinn (1998) , pp. 25–26.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

  1. REDIRECTJoseph Smith and money digging#Was Joseph Smith's participation in "money digging" as a youth a blot on his character?

Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838b) , pp. 42–43 (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

  1. REDIRECTJoseph Smith's family as trustworthy and hard-working#What contemporary witnesses are there to the work ethic of the Smiths?

Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.

Author's sources:
  1. Harris (1833) , pp. 253–54; Hale (1834) , p. 265; Clark (1842) , p. 225; Turner (1851) , p. 216; Harris (1859) , p. 164; Tucker (1867) , pp. 20–21; Lapham (1870) , p. 305; Lewis (Lewis) , p. 1; Mather (1880) , p. 199; Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51, 54–55.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

  1. REDIRECTJoseph Smith and folk magic or the occult#Did Joseph Smith place his seer stone in his hat while looking for lost objects?

Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or "glass-looker," a practice he called "nonsense."

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51,,

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:

Alva Hale, a son in the household where the Smiths stayed in Harmony while digging for Stowell, said Joseph Jr. told him that the "give in seeing with a stone" was "a gift from God" but that "' peeping ' was all d–d nonsense"; he had been deceived in his treasure seeking, but he did not intend to deceive anyone else....By this time, Joseph apparently felt that "seeing" with a stone was the work of a "seer," a religious term, while "peeping" or "glass-looking" was fraudulent.

Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts.

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51. Lucy Mack Smith later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):

Lucy...showed her knowledge of formulas and rituals and associated them with "the welfare of our souls." Magic and religion melded in Smith family culture."


Response to claim: "nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51 Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition, University of Illinois Press, 11.

FAIR's Response

  •  Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The wiki editor has taken "remnants of the magical culture" from the footnote and solidified them into the culture never having been "relinquished" in the main text.
  • From Bushman, p. 51:

Joseph Jr. never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to then end. But after 1823, he began to orient himself away from treasure and toward translation.


Response to claim: "He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a 'seer'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a "seer",

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , p. 51.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet.

Author's sources:
  1. Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.

FAIR's Response

  •  Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The wiki editor is synthesizing a conclusion based upon a primary source (The Book of Mormon) regarding Joseph Smith's belief with respect to the relative importance of seers versus prophets.

15 And the king said that a seer is greater than a prophet.
16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.


Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,

Author's sources:
  1. Roberts (1930) , p. 129. Roberts was at the time the official historian of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the Friend:

"To help him with the translation, Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.” Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone."
—“A Peaceful Heart,” Friend, Sep 1974, 7 off-site (emphasis added)

Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.

Author's sources:
  1. Harris (1859) , p. 163; Lapham (1870) , pp. 305–306. The stone was found in either 1819 (Tucker (1867) , pp. 19–20 Bennett (1893) ) or 1822 Chase (1833) , p. 240.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

For a detailed response, see: The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase

Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

This stone may still be in the possession of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Author's sources:
  1. Joseph Fielding Smith (a former president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." Doctrines of Salvation 3: 225.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"

Further reading

Mormonism and Wikipedia



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FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles

FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.

Who can edit Wikipedia articles?

Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.

Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles

FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)

Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?

Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.

Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?

Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.

Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?

Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.

FairMormon's analysis of LDS-related Wikipedia articles

We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:

  1. Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
  2. Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
  3. Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
  4. If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
  5. If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"

Roger Nicholson,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)
The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.

Click here to view the complete article

Wikipedia and anti-Mormon literature
Key sources
  • Roger Nicholson, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That 'Anyone Can Edit'," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 1/8 (14 September 2012). [151–190] link
Wiki links
Online
Navigators

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