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− | | | + | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 12 |
− | | | + | |H=Response to claims made in Chapter 12: "Camp Scott, November 16, 1857" |
− | | | + | |S= |
− | | | + | |L1= |
− | | | + | |T=[[../../|American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows]] |
− | | | + | |A=Sally Denton |
− | + | |<=[[../Chapter 11|Chapter 11]] | |
+ | |>=[[../Chapter 13|Chapter 13]] | ||
}} | }} | ||
+ | [[File:Chart AM chapter 12.png|center|frame]] | ||
+ | <onlyinclude> | ||
+ | {{H2 | ||
+ | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 12 | ||
+ | |H=Response to claims made in American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, "Chapter 12: Camp Scott, November 16, 1857" | ||
+ | |S= | ||
+ | |L1=Response to claim: 165 - Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows" | ||
+ | |L2=Response to claim: 165 - Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service" | ||
+ | |L3=Response to claim: 165 - Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet" | ||
+ | |L4=Response to claim: 167 - "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death" | ||
+ | |L5=Response to claim: 172 - "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows" | ||
+ | |L6=Response to claim: 172 - Ann Eliza Young claims that she "knew instinctively, as did many others, that something was being hidden from the mass of the people" | ||
+ | |L7=Response to claim: 173 - It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians | ||
+ | |L8=Response to claim: 173 - Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter" | ||
+ | |L9=Response to claim: 176, 180 = Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame | ||
+ | |L10=Response to claim: 186 - Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets" | ||
+ | |L11=Response to claim: 186 - George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..." | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | </onlyinclude> | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==Response to claim: 165 - Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows"== | ||
+ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
+ | |title=American Massacre | ||
+ | |claim= | ||
+ | The author claims that during meetings with U.S. Army Quartermaster Captain Stewart Van Vliet, Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows," and that the "Mormon leaders worried that if van Vliet relayed news of the situation to Johnston, an invasion of Utah Territory would be expedited." | ||
+ | |authorsources=<br> | ||
+ | #No source provided for this particular claim, although the following citation is Van Vliet quoted in {{CriticalWork:Stenhouse:Rocky Mountain Saints|pages=357}} | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{misinformation|It was virtually impossible for anyone in Salt Lake to have heard of the Massacre (which happened on 11 September) by the time Van Vliet left on 14 Sept, or last met with Brigham Young on 13 Sept. | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{:Question: Did Brigham Young hide knowledge of the massacre from Captain Stewart Van Vliet?}} | ||
− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 165 - Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service"== |
− | {{ | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
− | | | + | |title=American Massacre |
− | + | |claim= | |
− | | | + | The author claims that Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service." |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | || | + | #No source provided. Likely Stenhouse. |
− | * {{ | + | }} |
− | + | {{disinformation|Brigham actually ''did'' preach two sermons that day (13 September 1857). | |
− | + | *See: {{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=37|vol=5|start=226|end=231}} | |
− | + | *See: {{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=38|vol=5|start=231|end=236}} | |
− | + | Reviewer Robert Crocket notes, "Denton’s failure to know of Young’s sermons suggests a rather light review of her secondary sources. On 13 September 1857, in the Bowery, Brigham Young indeed said he was too angry to preach but then filled the day with two lengthy sermons nonetheless. Regardless of who spoke, I would have imagined that anybody writing about this event would have taken time to examine the Journal of Discourses to see what was actually said with Van Vliet in attendance." <ref>{{FR-16-1-9}}</ref> | |
− | + | }} | |
− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 165 - Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet"== |
− | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
− | + | |title=American Massacre | |
− | | | + | |claim= |
− | + | The author claims that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet when he said "if the government dare to force the issue, I shall not hold the Indians by the wrist any longer...you may tell the government to stop all emigration across the continent, for the Indians will kill all who attempt it." | |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | + | #Bancroft, 505. | |
− | + | }} | |
− | + | {{disinformation|The author just said earlier that Brigham had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows." Now she's saying that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference" to it! | |
− | + | }} | |
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− | ==== | + | <!-- ====167==== |
− | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
− | + | |title={{check}} | |
− | | | + | |claim=Any "Mormon man" who defied Brigham's declaration of Martial law would be "put to death." |
− | + | }} | |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | + | #Brigham Young proclamation, alternately dated August 5 and September 15, 1857, original copies located in Special Collections, Marriott University Library, University of Utah. Reprinted in Fielding, ''Unsolicted Chronicler'', 395; | |
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*{{CriticalWork:Stenhouse:Rocky Mountain Saints|pages=358-59}} | *{{CriticalWork:Stenhouse:Rocky Mountain Saints|pages=358-59}} | ||
− | + | }} --> | |
− | |||
− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 167 - "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death"== |
− | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
− | + | |title=American Massacre | |
− | + | |claim= | |
− | + | The author states that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'" | |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
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− | |||
* Young quoted in Waite, 50. | * Young quoted in Waite, 50. | ||
− | * | + | *See {{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=38|vol=5|start=232|date=13 Sept 1857}} |
− | | | + | }} |
− | | | + | {{misinformation|The author uses a secondary source, when she could have easily verified Brigham's words in the ''Journal of Discourses''. In context, Brigham's word assume a different tone. Immediately following the phrase quoted by the author, Brigham says "Now the faint-hearted can go in peace; but should that time come, they must not interfere." This is ''not'' a threat of death to those who would not participate. |
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{:Question: Would those that defied Brigham Young be "sheared down" and put to death?}} | ||
+ | |||
+ | <!-- ====167==== | ||
+ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
+ | |title={{check}} | ||
+ | |claim=The date of Brigham's proclamation "was changed from August to September" in order to destroy evidence that it authorized the Mountain Meadows Massacre. | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | |authorsources=<br> | ||
+ | #Gibbs, ''Mountain Meadows Massacre'', 11. | ||
+ | }} --> | ||
− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 172 - "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows"== |
− | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
− | + | |title=American Massacre | |
− | + | |claim= | |
− | | | + | The author claims that "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows" were "doomed to pass over the site of the slaughter." |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | | | + | #No source provided. |
− | + | }} | |
− | + | {{propaganda|The author needs to provide some evidence for this supposed "crisis of conscience." | |
− | + | }} | |
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− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 172 - Ann Eliza Young claims that she "knew instinctively, as did many others, that something was being hidden from the mass of the people"== |
− | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
− | + | |title=American Massacre | |
− | | | + | |claim= |
− | + | Ann Eliza Young claims that she "knew instinctively, as did many others, that something was being hidden from the mass of the people." | |
+ | |authorsources=<br> | ||
+ | #{{CriticalWork:Young:Wife No. 19|pages=229}} | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{propaganda|So now, Ann Eliza's intuitions are serving as evidence. Ann Eliza was writing later in life as an anti-Mormon lecturer, and used all the anti-Mormon tropes. | ||
* See {{Nibley11|start=413|end=468}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com.gospelink.com/library/document/31152}} | * See {{Nibley11|start=413|end=468}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com.gospelink.com/library/document/31152}} | ||
− | + | }} | |
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− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 173 - It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians== |
− | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
− | + | |title=American Massacre | |
− | || | + | |claim= |
− | + | It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians. | |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | + | #No source provided. | |
− | + | }} | |
− | + | {{misinformation|As noted on the notes for [[American Massacre/Index#142|p. 142]], local leaders had planned to blame the Indians long before Brigham Young even knew of their intentions, or instructed them to leave the immigrants alone. | |
+ | }} | ||
− | == | + | ==Response to claim: 173 - Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter"== |
− | | | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort |
− | + | |title=American Massacre | |
− | | | + | |claim= |
− | + | Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter." | |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | |||
*''Dimick B. Huntington Journal'', September 20, 1857. | *''Dimick B. Huntington Journal'', September 20, 1857. | ||
*{{CrossRef:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=170a}} | *{{CrossRef:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=170a}} | ||
− | |- | + | }} |
− | | | + | {{misinformation|The author again follows Bagley completely uncritically, and makes the same errors. |
+ | }} | ||
+ | *[[Blood_of_the_Prophets:_Brigham_Young_and_the_Massacre_at_Mountain_Meadows/Use of sources/Indian chief Arapeen given booty|Indian chief Arapeen given booty?]] | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==Response to claim: 176, 180 - Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame== | ||
+ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
+ | |title=American Massacre | ||
+ | |claim= | ||
+ | Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame. | ||
+ | |authorsources=<br> | ||
+ | #{{CrossRef:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=198}} | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{propaganda|The author seems to rely heavily on Bagley's treatment here. | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{:Question: Did Colonel Thomas Kane attempt to cover up the Mountain Meadows Massacre?}} | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==Response to claim: 186 - Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets"== | ||
+ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
+ | |title=American Massacre | ||
+ | |claim= | ||
+ | Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets." | ||
+ | |authorsources=<br> | ||
+ | #No source provided. (Likely Bagley) | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{disinformation|There is no evidence to support this claim. | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{:Question: Did apostle George A. Smith carry orders for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?}} | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==Response to claim: 186 - George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..."== | ||
+ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
+ | |title=American Massacre | ||
+ | |claim= | ||
+ | George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..." | ||
+ | |authorsources=<br> | ||
+ | #{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=212}} | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | {{propaganda|This is simply speculation on the part of the author and her source. | ||
+ | }} | ||
+ | *[[Blood_of_the_Prophets:_Brigham_Young_and_the_Massacre_at_Mountain_Meadows/Use_of_sources/Double_standards_of_skepticism|Double standards in evidence]] | ||
− | ==== | + | <!-- ====186==== |
− | + | {{IndexClaimItemShort | |
− | + | |title={{check}} | |
− | | | + | |claim=George A. Smith "went to lengths to characterize the victims as cowards." |
− | + | }} | |
− | + | |authorsources=<br> | |
− | + | #George A. Smith report in Juanita Brooks, ''The Mountain Meadows Massacre'', p. 242. | |
− | + | }} --> | |
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− | + | <!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE --> | |
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Chapter 11 | A FAIR Analysis of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, a work by author: Sally Denton
|
Chapter 13 |
Jump to details:
The author claims that during meetings with U.S. Army Quartermaster Captain Stewart Van Vliet, Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows," and that the "Mormon leaders worried that if van Vliet relayed news of the situation to Johnston, an invasion of Utah Territory would be expedited."Author's sources:
- No source provided for this particular claim, although the following citation is Van Vliet quoted in T.B.H. Stenhouse, Rocky Mountain Saints: a full and complete history of the Mormons, from the first vision of Joseph Smith to the last courtship of Brigham Young (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1873), 357.
Jump to details:
The author claims that Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service."Author's sources:
- No source provided. Likely Stenhouse.
Reviewer Robert Crocket notes, "Denton’s failure to know of Young’s sermons suggests a rather light review of her secondary sources. On 13 September 1857, in the Bowery, Brigham Young indeed said he was too angry to preach but then filled the day with two lengthy sermons nonetheless. Regardless of who spoke, I would have imagined that anybody writing about this event would have taken time to examine the Journal of Discourses to see what was actually said with Van Vliet in attendance." [1]
The author claims that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet when he said "if the government dare to force the issue, I shall not hold the Indians by the wrist any longer...you may tell the government to stop all emigration across the continent, for the Indians will kill all who attempt it."Author's sources:
- Bancroft, 505.
The author states that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'"Author's sources:
- Young quoted in Waite, 50.
- See Brigham Young, (13 Sept 1857) Journal of Discourses 5:232.
It is claimed that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'" The quote is taken from its context. Brigham was speaking of military necessary in the event of retreat before the invading U.S. Army.
As is typical in such cases, those who make this claim quote only a fragment of Brigham's speech. The more complete text reads:
Brigham was anticipating the need for a 'scorched earth' policy against the invading U.S. army.
Brigham makes the following statements that the critics ignore:
The only threat made is to those who, under military conditions, actively seek to resist the legal order of the territorial governor and militia commander to refuse aid and supplies to a military enemy. The property could not be preserved in such a case, because it would either be destroyed or appropriated by the enemy army. Military and militia commanders in all ages would have done nothing less, and Brigham's stance was moderate and merciful—no one was compelled to remain, no one was compelled to destroy anything.
But, if retreat became necessary, he would not allow supplies or shelter to fall into the hands of the enemy, which could cost Utahan lives if the war turned hot. This is not a dictatorship or megalomania; it was simply military prudence.
The author claims that "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows" were "doomed to pass over the site of the slaughter."Author's sources:
- No source provided.
Ann Eliza Young claims that she "knew instinctively, as did many others, that something was being hidden from the mass of the people."Author's sources:
- Ann Eliza Young, Wife No. 19, or the Story of a Life in Bondage...(Hartford, Conn.: Custin, Gilman & Company, 1876), 229.
It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians.Author's sources:
- No source provided.
Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter."Author's sources:
- Dimick B. Huntington Journal, September 20, 1857.
- Compare treatment in Blood of the Prophets: p. 170a.
Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame.Author's sources:
- Compare treatment in Blood of the Prophets: p. 198.
Jump to details:
Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets."Author's sources:
- No source provided. (Likely Bagley)
Jump to details:
George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..."Author's sources:
- Will Bagley, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows (University of Oklahoma Press, 2002), 212.
Notes
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