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+ | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Do Christians Believe in Three Gods/Relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit | ||
+ | |H=The Relationship Between Father, Son and Holy Spirit | ||
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+ | |T=[[../|Do Christians Believe in Three Gods?]] | ||
+ | |A=RBC Ministries | ||
+ | |<=[[../Origins of Nicene Trinitarianism|Origins of Nicene Trinitarianism]] | ||
+ | |>=[[../Jesus is God|Jesus is God]] | ||
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:Neither pray I for these [his apostles] alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That ''they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee'', that they also ''may be one in us'': that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that ''they may be one, even as we are one'': I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. ({{b||John|17|20-23}}, emphasis added) | :Neither pray I for these [his apostles] alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That ''they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee'', that they also ''may be one in us'': that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that ''they may be one, even as we are one'': I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. ({{b||John|17|20-23}}, emphasis added) | ||
− | Jesus here provides the solution to the dilemma which has gripped much of Christianity. The oneness of which Jesus speaks between the Father and the Son is the ''same'' oneness into which He invites the apostles and all believers. Christian doctrine does not teach that all believers will be absorbed into God as part of the same being or essence. Thus, God and Jesus do not share the same "essence" (a non- | + | Jesus here provides the solution to the dilemma which has gripped much of Christianity. The oneness of which Jesus speaks between the Father and the Son is the ''same'' oneness into which He invites the apostles and all believers. Christian doctrine does not teach that all believers will be absorbed into God as part of the same being or essence. Thus, God and Jesus do not share the same "essence" (a non-biblical term and claim derived from Greek philosophy), but instead share the same purposes, goals, will, and indwelling love (as demonstrated by John 10:30). |
Latter-day Saints would agree with the RBC pamphlet when it says that | Latter-day Saints would agree with the RBC pamphlet when it says that | ||
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:Each [of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit] lives with the other two in an I-You relationship. Each Person is self-conscious and self-directing. Yet one Person never acts independently of the others or in opposition to them. The mind, will, and emotions of each Person is in perfect unity with the mind, will, and emotions of the other two. (p. 21) | :Each [of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit] lives with the other two in an I-You relationship. Each Person is self-conscious and self-directing. Yet one Person never acts independently of the others or in opposition to them. The mind, will, and emotions of each Person is in perfect unity with the mind, will, and emotions of the other two. (p. 21) | ||
− | This is, in fact, an excellent description of how Latter-day Saints understand God's oneness. | + | This is, in fact, an excellent description of how Latter-day Saints understand God's oneness. They simply decline to go a step further and introduce non-biblical categories of "essense" to the discussion, because they are not scriptural. |
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:We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.... | :We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.... | ||
− | :To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” ({{b||Matthew|26|39}}) and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?({{ | + | :To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” ({{b||Matthew|26|39}}) and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?({{b||Matthew|27|46}}) To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best: “Christ Jesus … being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”({{b||Philippians|2|5-6}}) <ref>{{Ensign|author=Jeffrey R. Holland|article=The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent|date=November 2007|start=40|end=42}}{{link|url=https://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/11/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng}}</ref> |
Elder Holland continued: | Elder Holland continued: | ||
− | :We agree with our critics...that [the Nicene] formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.” How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer to His Father in Heaven that “this is life eternal, that they might know ''thee'' the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom ''thou'' hast sent”?{{ | + | :We agree with our critics...that [the Nicene] formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.” How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer to His Father in Heaven that “this is life eternal, that they might know ''thee'' the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom ''thou'' hast sent”? <ref>''Ibid.''; citing Owen Chadwick, ''Western Asceticism'' (1958), 235 and {{b||John|17|3}}, italics added.</ref> |
− | We see again both the post-biblical nature of the Nicene solution, and the fact that it was new: the monk quoted was distressed because a small group within Christianity had imposed its new views on the majority. | + | We see again both the post-biblical nature of the Nicene solution, and the fact that it was new: the monk quoted was distressed because a small group within Christianity had imposed its new views on the majority. <ref>For a history of the conflict, debates, intimidation, violence, and manipulation which attended the establishment of the later creeds based on verbatim stenographic records, see Ramsay MacMullen, ''Voting About God in Early Church Councils'' (Yale University Press, 2006). ISBN 978-0300115963.</ref> |
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Endnotes</h2> | ! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Endnotes</h2> | ||
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}} | {{DoYouHaveQuestions}} | ||
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+ | [[Category:God]] | ||
+ | [[Category:Reviews]] | ||
+ | [[Category:Sectarian]] |
Origins of Nicene Trinitarianism | A FAIR Analysis of: Do Christians Believe in Three Gods?, a work by author: RBC Ministries
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Jesus is God |
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