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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Burning in the Bosom"
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Latter-day Saints are not surprised that other Christians find tremendous joy in prayer and experiencing a personal relationship with Christ. Latter-day Saints also enjoy this same feeling. | Latter-day Saints are not surprised that other Christians find tremendous joy in prayer and experiencing a personal relationship with Christ. Latter-day Saints also enjoy this same feeling. | ||
− | Members of the Church believe that God will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask ({{ | + | Members of the Church believe that God will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask ({{b||Luke|11|13}}). Moreover, one is entitled to and should receive a spiritual witness from the Holy Ghost about the truthfulness of the scriptures (including the Bible and the Book of Mormon) before they accept them as true. This is frequently referred to by some as a burning in the bosom, using the phrase from the Doctrine and Covenants ([http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/9/8 D&C 9:8]), and the same concept as recorded in {{b||Luke|24|32}}. Receiving a spiritual witness of knowledge and truthfulness from the Holy Ghost is biblically sound (see {{b||John|14|26}}). |
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− | As explained above, LDS are depending on a witness of the Holy Spirit, not just feelings or what is in their heart and to do so is biblical ({{ | + | As explained above, LDS are depending on a witness of the Holy Spirit, not just feelings or what is in their heart and to do so is biblical ({{b||John|14|26}}). |
Mr McElveen's narrow view is correct that the Bible is replete with warnings to those whose hardened hearts are uncircumcised, blind, vain, foolish, lustful, or lifted up in pride. It also cautions against those who only pay lip service to God, while their hearts are far from Him. All members of the Church are mindful of God's admonition. | Mr McElveen's narrow view is correct that the Bible is replete with warnings to those whose hardened hearts are uncircumcised, blind, vain, foolish, lustful, or lifted up in pride. It also cautions against those who only pay lip service to God, while their hearts are far from Him. All members of the Church are mindful of God's admonition. | ||
− | God, however, also speaks in His Word about hearts that are humble, honest, true, who have an eye single towards His glory. How can a deceitful heart "...believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation?" ({{ | + | God, however, also speaks in His Word about hearts that are humble, honest, true, who have an eye single towards His glory. How can a deceitful heart "...believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation?" ({{b||Romans|10|10}}) Only Jesus knows what is in the heart of each of us. Only Jesus has the right to make that judgment. Certainly a heart that is pure before God is to be trusted. Certainly feelings and knowledge given by God are to be trusted. |
If every heart is always deceitful as Mr. McElveen would have us accept, why would the Lord promise that those He has blessed with a pure heart will see Him? ({{scripture||Matthew|5|8}}) When the Master spoke those words, He did not confine that glorious experience only to those who have accepted Him as their Savior and have passed from this life. He simply promised that those who are blessed with a pure heart will see God. While still living, Stephen saw the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God as he was being stoned to death ({{scripture||Acts|7|55}}). Are we to believe Stephen's heart or feelings were deceitful? Whoever the Lord chooses to bless with His presence may see Him. Latter-day Saints believe that this same promise was made manifest once more early in the spring of 1820, when Joseph Smith walked into a small grove of trees near his home in Palmyra, New York. | If every heart is always deceitful as Mr. McElveen would have us accept, why would the Lord promise that those He has blessed with a pure heart will see Him? ({{scripture||Matthew|5|8}}) When the Master spoke those words, He did not confine that glorious experience only to those who have accepted Him as their Savior and have passed from this life. He simply promised that those who are blessed with a pure heart will see God. While still living, Stephen saw the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God as he was being stoned to death ({{scripture||Acts|7|55}}). Are we to believe Stephen's heart or feelings were deceitful? Whoever the Lord chooses to bless with His presence may see Him. Latter-day Saints believe that this same promise was made manifest once more early in the spring of 1820, when Joseph Smith walked into a small grove of trees near his home in Palmyra, New York. | ||
− | McElveen's statement also indicates a lack of familiarity with how members of the | + | McElveen's statement also indicates a lack of familiarity with how members of the Church understand revelatory experiences. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we cannot trust our hearts or our feelings. God has given us additional revelation, to ensure that there is no confusion. |
:Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things. | :Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things. | ||
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:...And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: | :...And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: | ||
:And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire ''a still small voice''. | :And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire ''a still small voice''. | ||
− | : And it was so, ''when Elijah heard it'', that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. ({{ | + | : And it was so, ''when Elijah heard it'', that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. ({{b|1|Kings|19|11-13}}) {{ea}} |
Thus, the Holy Ghost may speak words and concepts to the mind—it is not merely an emotional experience. To outside observers, emotion may be the only visible sign of such an experience—the voice will not be perceived by others, but this makes it no less real. | Thus, the Holy Ghost may speak words and concepts to the mind—it is not merely an emotional experience. To outside observers, emotion may be the only visible sign of such an experience—the voice will not be perceived by others, but this makes it no less real. | ||
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It is very strange to hear a Bible-believing Christian claim that a burning in the bosom is of no importance, since it is taught in the Bible. | It is very strange to hear a Bible-believing Christian claim that a burning in the bosom is of no importance, since it is taught in the Bible. | ||
− | Following Jesus' resurrection, He walked with two disciples on the road to Emmaus. They did not recognize Jesus, but listened to Him as "he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" ({{ | + | Following Jesus' resurrection, He walked with two disciples on the road to Emmaus. They did not recognize Jesus, but listened to Him as "he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" ({{b||Luke|24|27}}). |
After breaking bread with them, Jesus was revealed to the disciples, and vanished. | After breaking bread with them, Jesus was revealed to the disciples, and vanished. | ||
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Rather, they said: | Rather, they said: | ||
− | :Did not our '''''heart burn within us''''', while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? ({{ | + | :Did not our '''''heart burn within us''''', while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? ({{b||Luke|24|32}}, emphasis added) |
The experience on the road to Emmaus illustrates again that a witness of the Holy Ghost is not just a feeling. The Holy Ghost is both a feeling or experiencing process, but it is not empty emotion. Rather, information is always transmitted with it. Thus, Jesus did not just give the disciples a feeling, but taught them information from the scriptures which gave intellectual or mental insight and satisfaction. | The experience on the road to Emmaus illustrates again that a witness of the Holy Ghost is not just a feeling. The Holy Ghost is both a feeling or experiencing process, but it is not empty emotion. Rather, information is always transmitted with it. Thus, Jesus did not just give the disciples a feeling, but taught them information from the scriptures which gave intellectual or mental insight and satisfaction. | ||
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Where does God tell us to depend only on the Word of God, period, or only and entirely on the Bible? Nowhere. | Where does God tell us to depend only on the Word of God, period, or only and entirely on the Bible? Nowhere. | ||
− | Jesus tells us in the Bible that we should live by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" ({{ | + | Jesus tells us in the Bible that we should live by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" ({{b||Matthew|4|4}}) (emphasis added). This statement was made prior to the Bible being compiled; none of the New Testament had been written. So, Jesus clearly taught that everything that God said (both prior to His statement, and after His statement) be depended upon. |
Even if we presume that the Bible is the only Word of God, how do we know to trust the Bible? It is circular to believe the Bible simply because the Bible tells us to: | Even if we presume that the Bible is the only Word of God, how do we know to trust the Bible? It is circular to believe the Bible simply because the Bible tells us to: | ||
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* [[Logical_fallacies#Begging_the_question|Circular reasoning / begging the question]] (FAIR Wiki) | * [[Logical_fallacies#Begging_the_question|Circular reasoning / begging the question]] (FAIR Wiki) | ||
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question Circular reasoning / begging the question] {Wikipedia) | * [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question Circular reasoning / begging the question] {Wikipedia) | ||
− | * [[ | + | * [[Mormonism and the Bible/Basics]] |
− | * [[Open_canon_vs._closed_canon| | + | * [[Mormonism and the Bible/Inerrancy|Biblical inerrancy?]] |
+ | * [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness|Biblical sufficiency?]] | ||
+ | * [[Mormonism and the Bible/Lost scripture|Lost scripture?]] | ||
+ | * [[Mormonism and the Bible/Open_canon_vs._closed_canon|A closed canon?]] | ||
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However, Mr. Hunt ignores the many times in the Book of Acts when the Holy Ghost bore witness, instructed, or directed members in ways that were not in scripture (the New Testament writings did not even exist at this point). | However, Mr. Hunt ignores the many times in the Book of Acts when the Holy Ghost bore witness, instructed, or directed members in ways that were not in scripture (the New Testament writings did not even exist at this point). | ||
− | ; {{ | + | ; {{b||Acts|13|2}} |
:''As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.'' | :''As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.'' | ||
There was no Bible or writing to tell the apostles that Barnabas and Saul should be called as missionaries. Should the apostles have ignored this because it's not in the Bible? | There was no Bible or writing to tell the apostles that Barnabas and Saul should be called as missionaries. Should the apostles have ignored this because it's not in the Bible? | ||
− | ;{{ | + | ;{{b||Acts|15|28}} |
:''For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things...'' | :''For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things...'' | ||
When the apostles were confronted with the issue of circumcision for Christian converts, they actually violated Jewish scriptural commands regarding circumcision. If they had relied only on the Word of God that they had received up to that point, they would have erred. But, they continued to listen to the on-going Word of God through the Holy Spirit. Following reasoned discussion of the issues (mind) their hearts were also in unity and peace about the correct action. | When the apostles were confronted with the issue of circumcision for Christian converts, they actually violated Jewish scriptural commands regarding circumcision. If they had relied only on the Word of God that they had received up to that point, they would have erred. But, they continued to listen to the on-going Word of God through the Holy Spirit. Following reasoned discussion of the issues (mind) their hearts were also in unity and peace about the correct action. | ||
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'''To read more:''' | '''To read more:''' | ||
− | * [[ | + | * [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness|Biblical sufficiency?]] |
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:But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, | :But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, | ||
− | :Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. ({{ | + | :Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. ({{b||Galatians|5|22-23}}) |
− | The Spirit brings certain fruits, and Jesus promises that "by their fruits, ye shall know them" ({{ | + | The Spirit brings certain fruits, and Jesus promises that "by their fruits, ye shall know them" ({{b||Matthew|7|22}}). Why would Paul describe certain fruits of the spirit if these were not a reliable method to know the Spirit? Would the critics have us believe that the Bible contradicts itself? |
Paul's fruits contain elements of both mind and heart: | Paul's fruits contain elements of both mind and heart: | ||
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:And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.... | :And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.... | ||
− | :But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ({{ | + | :But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ({{b||John|14|16,26}}) |
So, we are to heed the Holy Ghost, not ignore Him. The Holy Ghost is the Comforter—are we to dismiss His witness because comfort might be thought of by some as an emotion or even an emotional experience? | So, we are to heed the Holy Ghost, not ignore Him. The Holy Ghost is the Comforter—are we to dismiss His witness because comfort might be thought of by some as an emotion or even an emotional experience? | ||
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:For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. | :For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. | ||
:Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? | :Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? | ||
− | :Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? ({{ | + | :Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? ({{b||Matthew|7|7-10}}) |
The Bible further commands us: | The Bible further commands us: | ||
− | :If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. ({{ | + | :If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. ({{b||James|1|5}}) |
Are we to believe then that God will not answer when we knock at the door? That he who asks will not receive? Latter-day Saints believe in these Biblical admonitions to seek God, to commune with the Spirit, and to trust in Him. | Are we to believe then that God will not answer when we knock at the door? That he who asks will not receive? Latter-day Saints believe in these Biblical admonitions to seek God, to commune with the Spirit, and to trust in Him. |
Latest revision as of 14:19, 13 April 2024
Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD
Special Features: Burning in the Bosom |
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