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[[File:Chart CES Letter book of abraham.png|center|frame]] | [[File:Chart CES Letter book of abraham.png|center|frame]] | ||
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− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "scholars have found the original papyrus Joseph translated"|Response to claim: "scholars have found the original papyrus Joseph translated"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "scholars...have dated it in first century AD, nearly 2,000 years after Abraham could have written it"|Response to claim: "scholars...have dated it in first century AD, nearly 2,000 years after Abraham could have written it"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text"|Response to claim: "Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: "It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham"|Response to claim: "It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: Facsimile 1 "The Abraham scene is wrong"|Response to claim: Facsimile 1 "The Abraham scene is wrong"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: "The following image is what Facsimile 1 is really supposed to look like"|Response to claim: "The following image is what Facsimile 1 is really supposed to look like"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "The following images show similar funerary scenes which have been discovered elsewhere in Egypt"]|Response to claim: "The following images show similar funerary scenes which have been discovered elsewhere in Egypt"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: "a side-by-side comparison of what Joseph Smith translated in Facsimile #2 versus what it actually says according to Egyptologists"|Response to claim: "a side-by-side comparison of what Joseph Smith translated in Facsimile #2 versus what it actually says according to Egyptologists"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "Joseph Smith said that this is 'God sitting on his throne'. It’s actually Min, the pagan Egyptian god of fertility or sex"|Response to claim: "Joseph Smith said that this is 'God sitting on his throne'. It’s actually Min, the pagan Egyptian god of fertility or sex"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: Facsimile 3, "Joseph Smith’s translation of the papyri and facsimiles are gibberish"|Response to claim: Facsimile 3, "Joseph Smith’s translation of the papyri and facsimiles are gibberish"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12."|Response to claim: "86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12."]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: "Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham?"|Response to claim: "Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham?"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "the sun gets its light from Kolob...The sun shines because of thermonuclear fusion; not because it gets its light from any other star"|Response to claim: "the sun gets its light from Kolob...The sun shines because of thermonuclear fusion; not because it gets its light from any other star"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: "There’s a book published in 1830 by Thomas Dick entitled 'The Philosophy of the Future State'"|Response to claim: "There’s a book published in 1830 by Thomas Dick entitled 'The Philosophy of the Future State'"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was directly asked about the papyri not matching the Book of Abraham in a March 2012 BBC interview"|Response to claim: "Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was directly asked about the papyri not matching the Book of Abraham in a March 2012 BBC interview"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Response to claim: "Is 'I don’t know and I don’t understand but it’s the word of God' really the best answer that a 'prophet, seer, and revelator' can come up with to such a profound problem?"|Response to claim: "Is 'I don’t know and I don’t understand but it’s the word of God' really the best answer that a 'prophet, seer, and revelator' can come up with to such a profound problem?"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, October 2014 |
− | + | *[[#Response to claim: "The Church conceded in its July 2014 Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay that Joseph’s translations of the papyri and the facsimiles do not match what’s in the Book of Abraham"|Response to claim: "The Church conceded in its July 2014 Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay that Joseph’s translations of the papyri and the facsimiles do not match what’s in the Book of Abraham"]] (from Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, October 2014 | |
− | | | + | *[[#Citation abuse in Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay: B.H. Roberts comment on the Book of Abraham|Citation abuse in Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay: B.H. Roberts comment on the Book of Abraham]] (from Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay |
− | + | *[[#LDS Truth Claims: The Book of Abraham|LDS Truth Claims: The Book of Abraham]] | |
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==Response to claim: "scholars have found the original papyrus Joseph translated"== | ==Response to claim: "scholars have found the original papyrus Joseph translated"== | ||
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{{misinformation|Scholars have found fragments of the Joseph Smith Papyri. Among the fragments is the original for Book of Abraham Facsimile 1. The original papyri containing Facsimile 2 and Facsimile 3 is not among them. One cannot conclude that what we have today is the portion of the papyrus that Joseph translated. | {{misinformation|Scholars have found fragments of the Joseph Smith Papyri. Among the fragments is the original for Book of Abraham Facsimile 1. The original papyri containing Facsimile 2 and Facsimile 3 is not among them. One cannot conclude that what we have today is the portion of the papyrus that Joseph translated. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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}} | }} | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: What is the relationship of the Joseph Smith Papyri to the Book of Abraham?]] | |
+ | *[[Question: What happened to the papyri after Joseph's death?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: What do the Joseph Smith papyri fragments consist of?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "scholars...have dated it in first century AD, nearly 2,000 years after Abraham could have written it"== | ==Response to claim: "scholars...have dated it in first century AD, nearly 2,000 years after Abraham could have written it"== | ||
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{{information|The papyri fragments recovered date to after the Abrahamic period. The biggest thing to differentiate is a text and a manuscript. An original text may be ancient or have elements that date to an earlier date and a manuscript may be a copy of a copy of a copy that go to a later date. | {{information|The papyri fragments recovered date to after the Abrahamic period. The biggest thing to differentiate is a text and a manuscript. An original text may be ancient or have elements that date to an earlier date and a manuscript may be a copy of a copy of a copy that go to a later date. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Gospel Topics: "The phrase can be understood to mean that Abraham is the author and not the literal copyist"]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: Why does the Book of Abraham state that it was written by Abraham's "own hand upon papyrus" if the papyri date to after the Abrahamic period?]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: Is the phrase "by his own hand upon papyrus" an Egyptian title?]] | |
+ | *[[Question: Is the phrase "by his own hand upon papyrus" a 19th century redaction?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Did Joseph Smith believe that Abraham wrote the text on the papyrus himself?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text"== | ==Response to claim: "Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text"== | ||
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|facts=The Church announced in 1968 that the papryi fragments contained a funerary text in the official magazine, the ''Improvement Era''. | |facts=The Church announced in 1968 that the papryi fragments contained a funerary text in the official magazine, the ''Improvement Era''. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Gospel Topics on LDS.org: "Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham"]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: What is the relationship of the Joseph Smith Papyri to the Book of Abraham?]] | |
+ | *[[Question: What happened to the papyri after Joseph's death?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: What do the Joseph Smith papyri fragments consist of?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham"== | ==Response to claim: "It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham"== | ||
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{{information|The existing fragments of the Joseph Smith Papyri are not related to the Book of Abraham with the exception of the original for Facsimile 1, a fact that the Church noted in 1968 in the official church magazine, the ''Improvement Era''. There is evidence that helps us associate the to Abraham and traditions about him. | {{information|The existing fragments of the Joseph Smith Papyri are not related to the Book of Abraham with the exception of the original for Facsimile 1, a fact that the Church noted in 1968 in the official church magazine, the ''Improvement Era''. There is evidence that helps us associate the to Abraham and traditions about him. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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}} | }} | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: Was the Church forthright in identifying the rediscovered papyrus prior to their examination by non-LDS Egyptologists?]] | |
− | + | *[[Improvement Era (January 1968): "Often the funerary texts contained passages from the 'Book of the Dead,' a book that was to assist in the safe passage of the dead person into the spirit world"]] | |
+ | *[[Question: What did the Church announce in 1968 when the Joseph Smith papyri fragments were discovered?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: How long did the Church know about the papyri before they published information about them?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: Facsimile 1 "The Abraham scene is wrong"== | ==Response to claim: Facsimile 1 "The Abraham scene is wrong"== | ||
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{{misinformation| Facsimile 1 is one of the most studied and best attested of the facsimiles in antiquity. | {{misinformation| Facsimile 1 is one of the most studied and best attested of the facsimiles in antiquity. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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+ | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | ||
+ | *[[Question: Do any of Joseph's explanations of Facsimile 1 agree with what Egyptologists say about the figures?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "The following image is what Facsimile 1 is really supposed to look like"== | ==Response to claim: "The following image is what Facsimile 1 is really supposed to look like"== | ||
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{{disinformation|The Charles Larson restoration has a number of inaccuracies. | {{disinformation|The Charles Larson restoration has a number of inaccuracies. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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}} | }} | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: Does Facsimile 1 show a hand? Or does it show the wing of a second bird?]] | |
− | + | *[[Bell: "the questionable traces above the head of the Osiris figure are actually the remains of his right hand"]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: Should the restoration of Facsimile 1 include a phallus?]] | |
− | + | *[[Bell: "there would not be enough available space to restore the hand of Anubis, the erect phallus of the Osiris, and the body and wings of Isis"]] | |
+ | *[[Question: Was the original head of the priest in Facsimile 1 actually the jackal head of Anubis?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Was the priest depicted in Facsimile 1 holding a knife or some other object?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "The following images show similar funerary scenes which have been discovered elsewhere in Egypt"== | ==Response to claim: "The following images show similar funerary scenes which have been discovered elsewhere in Egypt"== | ||
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|facts=This type of scene is interpreted as the resurrection of Osiris. It therefore is not the "same funeral scene" that is illustrated elsewhere. | |facts=This type of scene is interpreted as the resurrection of Osiris. It therefore is not the "same funeral scene" that is illustrated elsewhere. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: Is Joseph Smith papyri Facsimile 1 common and similar to other such scenes?]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: What does the lion couch scene normally represent?]] | |
− | + | *[[Gospel Topics: "Joseph Smith’s explanations of the facsimiles of the book of Abraham contain additional earmarks of the ancient world"]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: What are the criticisms related to Facsimile 1?]] | |
− | + | *[[Muhlestein and Gee: "It is now apparent that human sacrifice did indeed occur in ancient Egypt"]] | |
− | + | *[[The Apocalypse of Abraham: "Go out from thy father Terah, and get thee out from the house, that thou also be not slain"]] | |
− | + | *[[Book of Jubilees 12:1-8: "Abram said to Terah his father...What help and profit have we from those idols which thou dost worship...And his father said unto him...Keep silent, my son, lest they slay thee"]] | |
+ | *[[Muhlestein and Gee: "Sacrifice was a penalty for desecrating the sacred house of an Egyptian god"]] | ||
+ | *[[Peterson: "the identification of a crocodile as the idolatrous god of Pharaoh...Unas’ pyramid texts, includes the following: 'The king appears as the crocodile god Sobek'"]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "a side-by-side comparison of what Joseph Smith translated in Facsimile #2 versus what it actually says according to Egyptologists"== | ==Response to claim: "a side-by-side comparison of what Joseph Smith translated in Facsimile #2 versus what it actually says according to Egyptologists"== | ||
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{{information| We don't know everything about facsimile 2 and how it was supposed to be translated. For now, we see that Joseph appears to have gotten a few things right. | {{information| We don't know everything about facsimile 2 and how it was supposed to be translated. For now, we see that Joseph appears to have gotten a few things right. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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+ | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | ||
+ | *[[Question: Did Joseph Smith identify any elements of Facsimile 2 that are in agreement with what Egyptologists say they represent?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "Joseph Smith said that this is 'God sitting on his throne'. It’s actually Min, the pagan Egyptian god of fertility or sex"== | ==Response to claim: "Joseph Smith said that this is 'God sitting on his throne'. It’s actually Min, the pagan Egyptian god of fertility or sex"== | ||
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|facts=This wasn't a big issue as far as the Egyptians were concerned. | |facts=This wasn't a big issue as far as the Egyptians were concerned. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: If modern Egyptologists say that this is a representation of Min, and Min is a “pagan” God, how could Joseph Smith say that it represents God sitting on his throne?]] | |
+ | *[[Question: Is the representation of Min actually Egyptian "pornography"?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Who is this Egyptian god "Min"?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: Facsimile 3, "Joseph Smith’s translation of the papyri and facsimiles are gibberish"== | ==Response to claim: Facsimile 3, "Joseph Smith’s translation of the papyri and facsimiles are gibberish"== | ||
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|facts=It is significant, however, that Joseph correctly notes two concepts that are present in other ancient texts: Abraham being seated next to Pharoah, and that Abraham taught the Egyptians astronomy. Another cool evidence for the Facsimile can be read about [https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/shulem-one-of-the-kings-principal-waiters/ here]. | |facts=It is significant, however, that Joseph correctly notes two concepts that are present in other ancient texts: Abraham being seated next to Pharoah, and that Abraham taught the Egyptians astronomy. Another cool evidence for the Facsimile can be read about [https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/shulem-one-of-the-kings-principal-waiters/ here]. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: What are the criticisms related to Facsimile 3?]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: What is the correct interpretation of Facsimile 3?]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: What have been the responses to Joseph's interpretations of Facsimile 3?]] | |
+ | *[[Question: Are there any known parallels between elements of Joseph's interpretation of Facsimile 3 with other ancient texts?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: What are the criticisms regarding Joseph's interpretation of specific textual elements of Facsimile 3?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12."== | ==Response to claim: "86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12."== | ||
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|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) | |title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) | ||
|claim=5. 86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12. Sixty-six out of seventy-seven verses are quotations or close paraphrases of King James Version wording. – An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins , p.19 | |claim=5. 86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12. Sixty-six out of seventy-seven verses are quotations or close paraphrases of King James Version wording. – An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins , p.19 | ||
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The Book of Abraham is supposed to be an ancient text written thousands of years ago “by his own hand upon papyrus.” What are 17th century King James Version text doing in there? What does this say about the book being anciently written by Abraham? | The Book of Abraham is supposed to be an ancient text written thousands of years ago “by his own hand upon papyrus.” What are 17th century King James Version text doing in there? What does this say about the book being anciently written by Abraham? | ||
}} | }} | ||
− | {{misinformation| There are significant | + | {{misinformation|There are significant differences in both text and narrative between the Genesis and Book of Abraham accounts of Abraham's life. Both narratives contain earmarks of antiquity. We have already responded to the author's question about "by his own hand on papyrus". KJV text can be included as part of the Book of Abraham as a functionally sufficient translation. That is, it can accomplish the purpose that God and Joseph Smith have for it adequately. |
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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+ | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | ||
+ | *[[Question: What are the differences between Genesis 11-12 and Abraham 2?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: What are the differences between the Genesis account of creation and that of the Book of Abraham?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham?"== | ==Response to claim: "Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham?"== | ||
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|claim=Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham? Chaldeans? Egyptus? Pharaoh? Abraham refers to the facsimiles in 1:12 and 1:14. These facsimiles did not exist in Abraham’s time as they are 1st century CE pagan Egyptian funerary documents. | |claim=Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham? Chaldeans? Egyptus? Pharaoh? Abraham refers to the facsimiles in 1:12 and 1:14. These facsimiles did not exist in Abraham’s time as they are 1st century CE pagan Egyptian funerary documents. | ||
}} | }} | ||
− | {{misinformation| There are ways to understand alleged anachronisms in the Book of Abraham if we are open to it not representing, in every single respect, at this very moment, a | + | {{misinformation| There are ways to understand alleged anachronisms in the Book of Abraham if we are open to it not representing, in every single respect, at this very moment, a first-person narrative written by the historic Abraham himself. |
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: Why would the Book of Abraham contain anachronisms?]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: Is the mention of "Ur of the Chaldees" in the Book of Abraham an anachronism?]] | |
− | + | *[[Paul Hoskisson (1991): "I will suggest an alternate location for the Ur of the Chaldees in the story of Abraham"]] | |
− | + | *[[John Gee: "If Oylum Hoyuk is Olishem, the Ur of the Chaldees should be one of the dozens of Middle Bronze II sites in the Kilis plain"]] | |
− | + | *[[Question: Are the scenes contained in the facsimiles anachronistic to the time of Abraham?]] | |
+ | *[[Question: Are the statements of Abraham 1:12,14 about the altar and Gods at the “beginning of the record” significant for the Book of Abraham?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Is the name "Pharaoh" anachronistic to the time of Abraham?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Is the mention of Egyptus anachronistic to the time of Abraham?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "the sun gets its light from Kolob...The sun shines because of thermonuclear fusion; not because it gets its light from any other star"== | ==Response to claim: "the sun gets its light from Kolob...The sun shines because of thermonuclear fusion; not because it gets its light from any other star"== | ||
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{{misinformation|The Book of Abraham does not state that the sun "gets it light" or "receives its light" from Kolob or from "from any other star." It states that the sun will "borrow its light from Kolob". It is not talking about actual light in the form of photons. It is certainly not disputing the notion that photons are emitted from the Sun. | {{misinformation|The Book of Abraham does not state that the sun "gets it light" or "receives its light" from Kolob or from "from any other star." It states that the sun will "borrow its light from Kolob". It is not talking about actual light in the form of photons. It is certainly not disputing the notion that photons are emitted from the Sun. | ||
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{{strawman| | {{strawman| | ||
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*The author refutes his own simplified assertion. | *The author refutes his own simplified assertion. | ||
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+ | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | ||
+ | *[[Question: What is the light which comes from the presence of God?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: Does the Book of Abraham state that the sun gets its photons from Kolob?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "There’s a book published in 1830 by Thomas Dick entitled 'The Philosophy of the Future State'"== | ==Response to claim: "There’s a book published in 1830 by Thomas Dick entitled 'The Philosophy of the Future State'"== | ||
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{{propaganda|Joseph owned the book, but there is no evidence that it was used in the dictation of the Book of Abraham. Critics of the Church try to infer a connection without any evidence. There is, in fact, evidence of contrasting views. | {{propaganda|Joseph owned the book, but there is no evidence that it was used in the dictation of the Book of Abraham. Critics of the Church try to infer a connection without any evidence. There is, in fact, evidence of contrasting views. | ||
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{{false cause| | {{false cause| | ||
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*The author concludes that Joseph must have used the book in the creation of the Book of Abraham. | *The author concludes that Joseph must have used the book in the creation of the Book of Abraham. | ||
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+ | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | ||
+ | *[[Question: Could Joseph Smith's theology as described in the Book of Abraham have been influenced by Thomas Dick's book The Philosophy of a Future State?]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: How do the theological concepts of Joseph Smith actually compare to those of Thomas Dick?]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was directly asked about the papyri not matching the Book of Abraham in a March 2012 BBC interview"== | ==Response to claim: "Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was directly asked about the papyri not matching the Book of Abraham in a March 2012 BBC interview"== | ||
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|facts=Elder Holland was asked this question and honestly answered that he didn't understand the exact method by which the Book of Abraham was produced. | |facts=Elder Holland was asked this question and honestly answered that he didn't understand the exact method by which the Book of Abraham was produced. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
− | + | *[[Question: How did Elder Holland respond during a BBC interview when asked how the Book of Abraham was translated?]] | |
− | + | *[[Parrish (1838): "I have set by his side and penned down the translation of the Egyptian Heiroglyphicks as he claimed to receive it by direct inspiration of Heaven"]] | |
+ | *[[John Whitmer: "Joseph the Seer saw these Record(s) and by the revelation of Jesus Christ could translate these records"]] | ||
+ | *[[Woodruff (1842): "The Lord is Blessing Joseph with Power to reveal the mysteries of the kingdom of God; to translate through the urim & Thummim Ancient records & Hyeroglyphics as old as Abraham or Adam"]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Response to claim: "Is 'I don’t know and I don’t understand but it’s the word of God' really the best answer that a 'prophet, seer, and revelator' can come up with to such a profound problem?"== | ==Response to claim: "Is 'I don’t know and I don’t understand but it’s the word of God' really the best answer that a 'prophet, seer, and revelator' can come up with to such a profound problem?"== | ||
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*The author restates and simplifies Elder Holland's position as "I don't know and I don't understand but it's the word of God." | *The author restates and simplifies Elder Holland's position as "I don't know and I don't understand but it's the word of God." | ||
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==Response to claim: "The Church conceded in its July 2014 Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay that Joseph’s translations of the papyri and the facsimiles do not match what’s in the Book of Abraham"== | ==Response to claim: "The Church conceded in its July 2014 Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay that Joseph’s translations of the papyri and the facsimiles do not match what’s in the Book of Abraham"== | ||
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|facts=The Church noted that "Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham." The Church actually acknowledged this in 1968 in the official Church magazine, the ''Improvement Era'', over 47 years ago. Since then it has received mention in the Ensign, it has been studied vigorously by scholars including Hugh Nibley, John Gee, Brian Hauglid, and others and published about in BYU studies, FARMS, and other organizations. Nibley's work has been available in Deseret Book. It's really not new. | |facts=The Church noted that "Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham." The Church actually acknowledged this in 1968 in the official Church magazine, the ''Improvement Era'', over 47 years ago. Since then it has received mention in the Ensign, it has been studied vigorously by scholars including Hugh Nibley, John Gee, Brian Hauglid, and others and published about in BYU studies, FARMS, and other organizations. Nibley's work has been available in Deseret Book. It's really not new. | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions | ||
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− | + | '''Longer response(s) to criticism:''' | |
+ | *[[Gospel Topics on LDS.org: "Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham"]] | ||
+ | *[[Question: What did the Church announce in 1968 when the Joseph Smith papyri fragments were discovered?]] | ||
+ | *[[Book of Abraham/Publications on the Book of Abraham|Exhaustive Listing of Book of Abraham Publications]] | ||
+ | {{Back to top}} | ||
==Citation abuse in ''Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay'': B.H. Roberts comment on the Book of Abraham== | ==Citation abuse in ''Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay'': B.H. Roberts comment on the Book of Abraham== | ||
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{{:CitationAbuse:Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay:B.H. Roberts comment on the Book of Abraham}} | {{:CitationAbuse:Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay:B.H. Roberts comment on the Book of Abraham}} | ||
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+ | ==LDS Truth Claims: The Book of Abraham== | ||
+ | <embedvideo service="youtube">o8KRay7kV9k</embedvideo> | ||
+ | <embedvideo service="youtube">xPPH2G6-aGE</embedvideo> | ||
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{{endnotes sources}} | {{endnotes sources}} | ||
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[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]] | [[Category:Letter to a CES Director]] |
Overview |
|
Brief responses and additional resources, CES Letter sections |
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Detailed responses, CES Letter sections |
Included below:
scholars have found the original papyrus Joseph translated
Longer response(s) to criticism:
scholars...have dated it in first century AD, nearly 2,000 years after Abraham could have written it.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text for a deceased man named “Hor” in 1st century AD. In other words, it was a common Breathing Permit that the Egyptians buried with their dead.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
[The Joseph Smith papyri] has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
The Abraham scene is wrong.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
[The Charles Larson restoration] is what Facsimile 1 is really supposed to look like, based on Egyptology and the same scene discovered elsewhere in Egypt.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
The following images shows the same funeral scene which has been discovered elsewhere in Egypt. (April 2013)
The following images show similar funerary scenes which have been discovered elsewhere in Egypt. (October 2014)
Notice that the jackal-headed Egyptian god of death and afterlife Anubis is consistent in every funerary scene.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
The following ["mormoninfographic"] is a side-by-side comparison of what Joseph Smith translated in Facsimile #2 versus what it actually says according to Egyptologists and modern Egyptology.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
One of the most disturbing facts I discovered in my research of Facsimile 2 is figure #7. Joseph Smith said that this is “God sitting on his throne…” It’s actually Min, the pagan Egyptian god of fertility or sex. Min is sitting on a throne with an erect penis (which can be seen in the figure). In other words, Joseph Smith is saying that this figure with an erect penis is Heavenly Father sitting on his throne.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Egyptologists state that Joseph Smith’s translation of the papyri and facsimiles are gibberish and have absolutely nothing to do with what the papyri and facsimiles actually are and what they actually say....Facsimile #3:
Joseph misidentifies the Egyptian god Osiris as Abraham.
Misidentifies the Egyptian god Isis as the Pharaoh.
Misidentifies the Egyptian god Maat as the Prince of the Pharaoh.
Misidentifies the Egyptian god Anubis as a slave.
Misidentifies the dead Hor as a waiter.
Joseph misidentifies – twice – a female as a male.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
5. 86% of Book of Abraham chapters 2, 4, and 5 are King James Version Genesis chapters 1, 2, 11, and 12. Sixty-six out of seventy-seven verses are quotations or close paraphrases of King James Version wording. – An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins , p.19The Book of Abraham is supposed to be an ancient text written thousands of years ago “by his own hand upon papyrus.” What are 17th century King James Version text doing in there? What does this say about the book being anciently written by Abraham?
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Why are there anachronisms in the Book of Abraham? Chaldeans? Egyptus? Pharaoh? Abraham refers to the facsimiles in 1:12 and 1:14. These facsimiles did not exist in Abraham’s time as they are 1st century CE pagan Egyptian funerary documents.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Facsimile 2, Figure #5 states the sun gets its light from Kolob. (April 2013)
Facsimile 2, Figure #5 states the sun receives its “light from the revolutions of Kolob.” (October 2014)
We now know that the process of nuclear fusion is what makes the stars and suns shine. With the discovery of quantum mechanics, scientists learned that the sun’s source of energy is internal, and not external. The sun shines because of thermonuclear fusion; not because it gets its light from any other star as claimed by the Book of Abraham.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Joseph Smith owned a copy of the book [Thomas Dick's book Philosophy of a Future State.] and Oliver Cowdery quoted some lengthy excerpts from the book in the December 1836 Messenger and Advocate."
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was directly asked about the papyri not matching the Book of Abraham in a March 2012 BBC interview:
Sweeney: Mr. Smith got this papyri and he translated them and subsequently as the Egyptologists cracked the code something completely different…
Holland: (Interrupts) All I’m saying…all I’m saying is that what got translated got translated into the word of God. The vehicle for that, I do not understand and don’t claim to know and know Egyptian.
Longer response(s) to criticism:
Is “I don’t know and I don’t understand but it’s the word of God” really the best answer that a “prophet, seer, and revelator” can come up with to such a profound problem that is driving many members out of the Church?
The Church conceded in its July 2014 Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay that Joseph’s translations of the papyri and the facsimiles do not match what’s in the Book of Abraham
Longer response(s) to criticism:
"Elder B.H. Roberts, LDS Scholar and General Authority, Comprehensive History of the Church 2:138"
“That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.”
—Jonathan Swift
Jeremy Runnells' Response and Rebuttal to Brian M. Hauglid's Rational Faiths Essay: "Jeremy Runnells and the Book of Abraham" presents a quote from B.H. Roberts in order to demonstrate that Roberts believed that if the translation of the papyri of the Book of Abraham was not validated by non-Mormon Egyptologists, that it would invalidate Joseph Smith's claim to have been a prophet. The author presents the quote as follows:
“If Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian parchment could be proven discredited, and proven false, then doubt would be thrown also upon the genuineness of his translation of the Book of Mormon, and thus all his pretensions as a translator would be exposed and come to naught.” – Elder B.H. Roberts, LDS Scholar and General Authority, Comprehensive History of the Church 2:138
Note: The author of the Letter to a CES Director inaccurately transcribed the Roberts quote: The first occurrence of the word "proven" should not be there. The author appears to have simply copied it from another secondary source rather than examining the primary source.
The quote from Roberts is actually a paraphrase of a criticism of the Book of Abraham offered in 1912 by the Rev. F. S. Spalding. This is not Roberts' opinion: it is Roberts phrasing of Spalding's opinion. Note in particular that Roberts was stating that Spalding's prediction that this would spell the "collapse of Mormonism" was unfulfilled:
[T]he "collapse of Mormonism" was confidently looked for in some quarters; for if Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian parchment could be discredited, and proven false, then doubt would be thrown also upon the genuineness of his translation of the Book of Mormon; and thus all his pretensions as a translator would be exposed and come to naught. "It is the belief," wrote Bishop Spalding, "that the honest searchers for truth among the Latter-day Saints will welcome the opinions of authoritative scholars, and, if necessary, courageously readjust their system of belief, however radical a revolution of thought may be required, that the following judgments of the world's greatest Egyptologists have been ascertained." (Joseph Smith, Jun., as a Translator, p. 19). Nothing of this kind happened however, "Mormonism" was not moved a peg by the critique.
Here is Roberts' full quote, with the portion extracted by the author of the Letter to a CES Director highlighted in blue:
In 1912 a widespread interest was awakened in the Book of Abraham by the publication of a brochure, by Rt. Rev. F. S. Spalding, D. D. Episcopal Bishop of Utah, under the title Joseph Smith, Jun., as a Translator. The bishop submitted the facsimiles of some of the parchment pages from which the Book of Abraham had been translated, (copies of which accompany this chapter) to a number of the foremost of present day Egyptian scholars. These were Dr. A. H. Sayce, Oxford, England; Dr. W. M. Flinders Petrie, London University; James H. Breasted, Ph. D., Haskel Oriental Museum, University of Chicago; Dr. Arthur C. Mace, Assistant Curator, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Department of Egyptian Art; Dr. John Peters, University of Penn., in charge of Expedition to Babylonia, 1888-1895; Rev. Prof, C. A. B. Mercer, Ph. D., Western Theological Seminary, Custodian Hibbard Collections, Egyptian Reproductions; two German scholars—Dr. Edward Meyer, University of Berlin; and Dr. Friedrich Freiheer Von Bissin, Professor of Egyptology in the University of Munich—eight in all. Speaking of the result obtained from the submission of these facsimiles to these foremost Egyptologists, Bishop Spalding says: "It will be seen that there is practically complete agreement as to the real meaning of the hieroglyphics, and that this meaning is altogether different from that of Joseph Smith's translation." (Joseph Smith, Jun., as a Translator, p. 19). He also says that "The opinions were obtained from the scholars themselves, and in no case did one man know the opinion of another" (Ibid).
The seeming triumph of the bishop's test of the "Mormon" Prophet's ability to translate ancient languages correctly by inspiration from God, was much commented upon throughout the United States, and especially by the religious press; and the "collapse of Mormonism" was confidently looked for in some quarters; for if Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian parchment could be discredited, and proven false, then doubt would be thrown also upon the genuineness of his translation of the Book of Mormon; and thus all his pretensions as a translator would be exposed and come to naught. "It is the belief," wrote Bishop Spalding, "that the honest searchers for truth among the Latter-day Saints will welcome the opinions of authoritative scholars, and, if necessary, courageously readjust their system of belief, however radical a revolution of thought may be required, that the following judgments of the world's greatest Egyptologists have been ascertained." (Joseph Smith, Jun., as a Translator, p. 19). Nothing of this kind happened however, "Mormonism" was not moved a peg by the critique. So far as known there were not a score of Latter-day Saints whose faith was affected by the Spalding brochure. There were no Egyptian scholars in the church of the Latter-day Saints who could make an effective answer to the conclusions of the eight scholars who in various ways pronounced against the correctness of Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian parchments that so strangely fell into his hands; but a number of articles were written by elders of the church pointing out the bias of the scholars and some evident defects in the treatment of the subject; and also reviews of Bishop Spalding's arguments.[1]
The author of the Letter to a CES Director, who considers all Latter-day Saint scholars merely "apologists" and not worthy of attention, calls B.H. Roberts a "scholar" in this case. Roberts was indeed a scholar, but he was also the most notable Latter-day Saint apologist of the early 20th-century.
Here's what the author of the Letter to a CES Director thinks of the distinction between "scholar" and "apologist" as he attacks Brian Hales' scholarship:
Hales is not a scholar. He's an anesthesiologist who hired Don Bradley to do his research for him. He then wrote 3 books using his employee's homework. Author? Sure. Apologist? Yes. Amateur? Yes. Scholar? No. He's an apologist disguising himself as a scholar. The real scholars in the field of polygamy have issues with many of Hales' conclusions and interpretations. Anyone with big bucks and writing skills can do what Brian did. All you have to do is hire guys like Don Bradley to do all the work for you and then you throw the stuff in a nice hardcover book with your name on it.[2]
Could it be because the author of the Letter to a CES Director in this case calls B.H. Roberts a "scholar" because thinks that Roberts said something that he agrees with...that is, after he modified Roberts' quote to remove the portions he disagreed with? Remember, B.H. Roberts, LDS Scholar and General Authority, said "The 'collapse of Mormonism' was confidently looked for in some quarters; for if Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian parchment could be discredited...Nothing of this kind happened."
Notes
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