FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Kirtland Temple Dedication"
m (Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|propaganda= +}}\n{{propaganda|)) |
m (→top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}) |
||
| (One intermediate revision by one other user not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| − | {{ | + | {{Main Page}} |
<onlyinclude> | <onlyinclude> | ||
{{H1 | {{H1 | ||
| Line 30: | Line 30: | ||
|title=MormonThink | |title=MormonThink | ||
|claim=Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple (D&C 110:12, 13)....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person. Elijah is the Hebrew name of Elias (Greek). But Joseph thought they were two different people and thus referred to them as such. | |claim=Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple (D&C 110:12, 13)....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person. Elijah is the Hebrew name of Elias (Greek). But Joseph thought they were two different people and thus referred to them as such. | ||
| − | | | + | }} |
| + | {{misinformation|More than one individual has been referred to as "Elias." The name is used as a title. | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{:Mormonism and temples/Elias and Elijah at the Kirtland Temple}} | {{:Mormonism and temples/Elias and Elijah at the Kirtland Temple}} | ||
Latest revision as of 13:20, 13 April 2024
Response to MormonThink page "Kirtland Temple Dedication"
| The Temple | A FAIR Analysis of: MormonThink, a work by author: Anonymous
|
Lying for the Lord |
- Response to claim: "Some who were genuinely drunk probably added fuel to the environment by claiming to see things just to support their beloved prophet"
- Response to claim: "Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person"
Response to claim: "Some who were genuinely drunk probably added fuel to the environment by claiming to see things just to support their beloved prophet"
The author(s) of MormonThink make(s) the following claim:
It's likely that Joseph said he was seeing something angelic and told the congregation what he claimed to be seeing....That would likely cause some to believe the prophet so much as to get caught up in the spirit and cause them to imagine they were witnessing something extraordinary - made much easier if they were fasting and had a sudden dose of wine. Some who were genuinely drunk probably added fuel to the environment by claiming to see things just to support their beloved prophet.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
The critics are speculating on motives without engaging the actual sources.
Question: Was the "Pentecost" at the Kirtland Temple dedication actually a drunken orgy?
There is no contemporaneous evidence of drunkenness at the Kirtland temple dedication or associated events
Were there really spiritual manifestations attending the dedication of the Kirtland temple? There have been allegations that it was in fact a drunken orgy. [1]
There is no contemporaneous evidence of drunkenness at the Kirtland temple dedication or associated events. There is extensive evidence from both leaders and lay members of a miraculous spiritual outpouring. An early apostate, John Corrill, minimized or dismissed accounts of drunkenness. Another apostate, Winchester, continued with the Church until Nauvoo, and only later reported the drunkenness about which he mentioned nothing for five years. McLellin is the richest source for the charges of drunkenness, but an examination of his account makes it clear that he speaks of only one meeting in the temple, and the problem was at worst confined to a few members who unintentionally fell under the influence of wine on an empty stomach.
Subsequent critical authors have often relied on Wyl or accepted such remarks uncritically, and have ignored a rich vein of contemporary source material attesting to the Pentecost of Kirtland. While the critics are anxious to dismiss reports of spiritual manifestations by any means necessary, theories of mass drunkenness are simply not up to the task.
At the first Pentecost, the Apostles were also accused of being drunken
It is ironic that critics refer to the Kirtland Temple dedication as some form of "Pentecost" for the early Church, when, at the first pentecost, the Apostles were also accused of being drunken. "Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine." (See Acts 2:13-15)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. Acts 2:4-13 (emphasis added)
In November 2002, an early account of the dedication of the Kirtland temple surfaced, confirming the spiritual outpouring. This account provides an excellent contemporary window into the event:
Sunday evening after joseph spoke opened & told them the day of penticost was continued the the [sic] Brethren began to to prophesy many prophesied in the name of the Lord then began speaking in tongues and it filled as it were the whole house, perhaps there were forty speaking at once cloven tongues of fire was seen to sit on many of them an hand was seen laid upon one when he spake in tongues to the lamanites many Visions seen, one saw a pillow or cloud rest down upon the house bright as when the sun shines on a cloud like as gold, two others saw three personages hovering in the room with bright keys in their hands, and also a bright chain in their hands....[2]
There is no contemporaneous record of drunken behavior associated with the Temple dedication
Significantly, there is no contemporaneous record of drunken behavior associated with the dedication. A great deal was written about miraculous events, but the stories of drunkenness occur only later. One LDS historian noted:
...Latter-day Saints, like so many other Christians of the 1830s, regarded intemperance as a serious transgression, and there is no evidence that any of the visions described by numerous witnesses followed the consumption of large amounts of wine. Contemporary testimonies of these events are so numerous that they cannot be dismissed with such an oversimplification.[3]
Response to claim: "Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person"
The author(s) of MormonThink make(s) the following claim:
Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple (D&C 110:12, 13)....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person. Elijah is the Hebrew name of Elias (Greek). But Joseph thought they were two different people and thus referred to them as such.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
More than one individual has been referred to as "Elias." The name is used as a title.
Baptism for the dead |
|
The temple endowment |
|
Temple sealings |
|
Other topics |
Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Kirtland Temple Dedication
Included below:
Who was Elias who appeared in the Kirtland Temple?
Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery reported a vision in the Kirtland Temple on 3 April 1836 during which they saw Moses, Elijah and Elias
Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery reported a vision in the Kirtland Temple on 3 April 1836 (see D&C 110꞉1-16). They reported that they received priesthood keys from three angelic messengers:
- Moses (verse 11)
- Elijah (verse 12)
- Elias (verses 13-16)
"Elias" is merely the Greek name of the Hebrew prophet "Elijah"
Some note that "Elias" is merely the Greek name of the Hebrew prophet "Elijah." Thus, they charge, Joseph Smith made a fatal error by having Elias and Elijah be two different people, when they are in fact one and the same.[4]
Elder McConkie provides a good summary:
There is no valid reason for confusion as to the identity and mission of Elias. There was a man named Elias who came to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland Temple to restore "the gospel of Abraham." (D&C 110꞉12.) Whether he was Abraham himself or someone else from his dispensation, we do not know. Elias is one of the names of Gabriel who is Noah, and it was in this capacity that Gabriel visited Zacharias the father of John the Baptist. (D&C 27꞉6-7.) Elias is the Greek form of the Hebrew Elijah, and in this sense has reference to the prophet from Tishbe. Elias is also the title or name of a forerunner who goes before to prepare the way for someone who is greater; this is the doctrine of Elias, and in this sense John the Baptist was both Elias and an Elias. John came in the way that Gabriel (who is Elias) promised, that is, "in the spirit and power of Elias, . . . to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." (Luke 1:17.)… But, as we have seen, there is also an Elias of the Restoration, meaning that there is also a doctrine of Elias that pertains not to preparation alone, but to restoration. Christ was Elias in his day because he restored the gospel for those then living. In our revelations the Lord says that Gabriel (Noah) is the "Elias, to whom I have committed the keys of bringing to pass the restoration of all things spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began, concerning the last days." (D&C 27꞉6.) The one who holds the keys is the one who directs the work; keys are the right of presidency. Thus Gabriel, who stands next to Michael (Adam) in the heavenly hierarchy, has a great directing and supervising work in connection with the restoration of all things.[5]
It is certainly true that "Elias" is the Greek form of the Hebrew "Elijah," however, there are also cases when the name "Elias" is applied to someone besides Elijah
There are times within scripture where "Elias" is clearly meant to refer to the Elijah of 1 Kings. (See, for example, Matthew 27:47-49, Romans 11:2, James 5:17). However, there are also cases when the name "Elias" is applied to someone besides Elijah. For example, Jesus himself applied it to John the Baptist (see Matthew 11:13-15.)
The Hebrew name, often transliterated "Isaiah," Yesha'yah[u] appears in the Hebrew bible on many occasions, but used to denote different "Isaiahs" than the prophet who authored the Book of Isaiah. These names are rendered Esaias in the Septuagint (LXX), and are rendered Jesiah and Jesaiah in the KJV and many other translations of the Old Testament. In D&C 84, Joseph Smith may have used a different transliteration of the Semitic name to differentiate one Isaiah from another. Indeed, we have many New Testament parallels in translation literature, such as the Jude/Judas variant for the same name in the New Testament.
Jesus' use of "Elias" to refer to another forerunner prophet (John the Baptist) illustrates the LDS concept of "Elias" as a calling or name-title for someone in a preparatory role
Jesus' use of "Elias" to refer to another forerunner prophet (John the Baptist) illustrates the LDS concept of "Elias" as a calling or name-title for someone in a preparatory role.[6] And, the angel Gabriel applied the "spirit of Elias" to John even prior to his birth. (See Luke 1:15-17.)
The Mount of Transfiguration account (Matthew 17:, Mark 9:, Luke :9) has Jesus speaking to Moses and "Elias." Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible expands upon the concept of "Elias" as name-title:
10. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things, as the prophets have written.
11. And again I say unto you that Elias has come already, concerning whom it is written, Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and they knew him not, and have done unto him, whatsoever they listed.
12. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer of them.
13. But I say unto you, Who is Elias? Behold, this is Elias, whom I send to prepare the way before me.
14. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist, and also of another who should come and restore all things, as it is written by the prophets. (JST | Matthew 17:10 - 14, italics represent differences from KJV and JST text)
The JST of Mark makes John the Baptist's appearance explicit:
3. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses or in other words, John the Baptist and Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. (JST | Mark 9:3)
Interestingly, the LDS Bible Dictionary (prepared under the direction of Elder Bruce R. McConkie) says that "[t]he curious wording of JST Mark 9:3 does not imply that the Elias at the Transfiguration was John the Baptist, but that in addition to Elijah, the prophet, John the Baptist was present."[6]
And, elsewhere, the JST associates the "Elias" role with Jesus himself:
27. John answered them, saying; I baptize with water, but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
28. He it is of whom I bear record. He is that prophet, even Elias, who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose, or whose place I am not able to fill; for he shall baptize, not only with water, but with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. (JST | John 1:27 - 28)
Joseph Smith was not the only one to understand Elias in this sense
Some critics have seen Joseph's ideas above as completely ad hoc: but, he was not the only one to understand Elias in this sense. Alexander Campbell, a noted American clergyman, wrote an attack on the Book of Mormon in which he expressed a similar idea:
The Jews gave up their business and attended to him. He obtained one Nathan in Jerusalem to pass for his Elias, or forerunner.[7]
Identity of Elias at Kirtland
Having shown that "Elias" may refer to someone other than the Hebrew "Elijah," both biblically and in Joseph Smith's thought (see D&C 77꞉9,14 for other uses as forerunner), we can now ask: Who, then, appeared with Elijah and Moses at Kirtland? There are several possible options:
John the Baptist?
Elias as John the Baptist: this is analogous to the JST usage of the term. However, this seems unlikely given that a previous appearance of John the Baptist identified him as such.(See D&C 13꞉1
Unknown prophet from era of Abraham?
Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested that this Elias was a prophet who lived at the time of Abraham.[8]
Abraham?
Elder McConkie was apparently not wedded to interpretation #2, since he later suggested that this "Elias" might be Abraham himself.[5]
Noah?
The association of Noah with Elias is based in part upon D&C 27:
6 And also with Elias, to whom I have committed the keys of bringing to pass the restoration of all things spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began, concerning the last days;
7 And also John the son of Zacharias, which Zacharias he (Elias) visited and gave promise that he should have a son, and his name should be John, and he should be filled with the spirit of Elias;(D&C 27꞉6-7.)
Elias is here said to be the person who came to Zacharias to announce the birth of John the Baptist. The angel Gabriel is well known to have been the messenger of John's birth (see Luke 1:19.) Who is Gabriel in LDS thought? Joseph Smith taught that Gabriel was the mortal Noah.[9]
| Person and Keys | Mission of the Church? |
|---|---|
| Moses had the keys to the gathering of Israel; leading the 10 tribes | Proclaiming the gospel |
| Elijah had the keys to turn hearts of the children to the fathers | Redeem the dead via sealing power; vicarious work for the dead |
| Elias had the keys to the Dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham | "Through you [the Church members] all generations after us should be blessed”—Perfecting the Saints, by the restoration of all things in the gospel. This might work well with Noah, who serves as a "second Adam" figure, restoring the human race and its covenant relationship with God after the world was engulfed in wickedness. |
Some other individual?
Elder John A. Widtsoe wrote of these theories:
From this reference to "the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham," it has been concluded that Elias was a prophet who lived near the time of the patriarch, Abraham. Really, nothing more definite is known about the person Elias and his activity on earth… It should be said that some students believe that Elias who appeared in the Kirtland Temple was Noah, the patriarch. Modern revelation informs us that Elias visited Zacharias to inform him that he should have a son known later as John the Baptist. (D&C 27꞉7) The Bible says that it was the angel Gabriel who visited Zacharias. (Luke 1:19) Joseph Smith said that Gabriel is Noah. These students conclude therefore, that Elias is another name or title for Noah. This inference may or may not be correct. The name Gabriel may be borne by more than one personage or it may be a title as in the case of Elias. When Elias, the man, lived, and what he did in his life, must for the present remain in the field of conjecture.[10]
Did Elijah appear in the Kirtland Temple?
A theory has been proposed that Elijah did not appear to Joseph Smith at the Kirtland Temple and that the record now in Doctrine and Covenants 110 was created after Joseph Smith's death. This theory is proven false by the historical evidence:
- The account in Joseph Smith's 1835-1836 journal is in the handwriting of Warren Cowdery, who served as Joseph's scribe for only a short period of time in 1835 and 1836.[11] Warren left the Church in 1838.[12]
- In a letter written in April 1836, William W. Phelps wrote that on April 3, 1836, "there was a manifestation of the Lord to Bro. Joseph and Oliver, by which they learned that the great & terrible day of the Lord, as mentioned by Malichi, was near, even at the doors."[13]
Notes
- ↑ This criticism is advanced by Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 179. ( Index of claims ); William E. McLellin, multiple accounts; Benjamin Winchester, "Primitive Mormonism," Salt Lake Tribune (22 September 1889): 2; Wilhelm Wyl, Mormon Portraits Volume First: Joseph Smith the Prophet, His Family and Friends (Salt Lake City: Tribune Printing and Publishing Co., 1886), 308–309. (citing McLellin); Theodore Schroeder, "Mormonism and Intoxicants," American Historical Journal 3 (1908): 238-249 (citing Wyl).
- ↑ Steven C. Harper, "Pentecost Continued: A Contemporaneous Account of the Kirtland Temple Dedication," Brigham Young University Studies 42 no. 2 (2003), 4–.
- ↑ Milton V. Backman, Jr., The Heavens Resound: A History of the Latter-day Saints in Ohio, 1830–1838 (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Co., 1983), 309. ISBN 0877479739 GospeLink
- ↑ Contender Ministries, Questions All Mormons Should Ask Themselves. Answers; "Kirtland Temple Dedication," MormonThink.com
- ↑ 5.0 5.1 Bruce R. McConkie, Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1982), 102–104. ISBN 0877478961. GL direct link
- ↑ 6.0 6.1 Bible Dictionary (LDS English edition of the Holy Scriptures), s.v. "Elias," 663.
- ↑ Alexander Campbell, Delusions: An Analysis of the Book of Mormon, with an Examination of Its Internal and External Evidences, and a Refutation of Its Pretences to Divine Authority with Prefatory Remarks by Joshua V. Himes (Boston: Benjamine H. Greene, 1832), ; originally published in Millennial Harbinger 2 (7 February 1831): 85–96. off-site O. Cowdery reply #1 #2
- ↑ Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition, (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 219. GL direct link
- ↑ Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected by Joseph Fielding Smith, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1976), 157. off-site
- ↑ John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations: Aids to Faith in a Modern Day, arranged by G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1960), 243–244. GL direct link
- ↑ See historical introduction to Journal, 1835–1836, josephsmithpapers.org, and also historical introduction to "Visions, 3 April 1836 (D&C 110)," josephsmithpapers.org.
- ↑ "Cowdery, Warren A.", josephsmithpapers.org.
- ↑ William Wines Phelps letter to Sally Phelps, April 1836, in William Wines Phelps papers, L. Tom Perry Special Collections, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University. See also historical introduction to "Visions, 3 April 1836 (D&C 110)," josephsmithpapers.org.