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Difference between revisions of "Specific works/DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)/Geographical claims"
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− | + | |L=Specific works/DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)/Geographical claims | |
− | | | + | |T=DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD); Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences (Seminar) |
− | | | + | |H=Geographical claims |
− | | | + | |A=The FIRM Foundation |
− | + | |<= | |
− | + | |>=[[../Hierarchy of doctrinal authority|Hierarchy of doctrinal authority]] | |
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|notes= | |notes= | ||
}} | }} | ||
− | == | + | ==Response to geographical claims made in the DVD ''DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography''== |
The following tables respond to specific geographical claims made in the DVD. Only the geographical claims are treated here. For other issues related to this DVD and the presentation "Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences," see the following: | The following tables respond to specific geographical claims made in the DVD. Only the geographical claims are treated here. For other issues related to this DVD and the presentation "Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences," see the following: | ||
{{Main|DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)|l1=A FairMormon Analysis of ''DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography and in associated seminar presentations''}} | {{Main|DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)|l1=A FairMormon Analysis of ''DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography and in associated seminar presentations''}} | ||
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*The Book of Mormon does ''not'' say that the plates were buried in Cumorah—it states that all of the ''other'' Nephite records were hidden there. The only reason we know where Moroni ultimately buried the plates is because of where they were found. | *The Book of Mormon does ''not'' say that the plates were buried in Cumorah—it states that all of the ''other'' Nephite records were hidden there. The only reason we know where Moroni ultimately buried the plates is because of where they were found. | ||
*The geology of the Hill Cumorah in New York makes the presence of a cave there extremely unlikely. | *The geology of the Hill Cumorah in New York makes the presence of a cave there extremely unlikely. | ||
− | * [[ | + | * [[Archaeology and the Hill Cumorah|Hill Cumorah issues]] |
|| | || | ||
* None | * None | ||
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*{{AuthorQuote|I went back and looked in Noah Webster's dictionary of the 1850's, when Joseph Smith was around, and when it said "continent," they're not talking about North and South America. OK? There's a North American continent and a South American continent in Noah Webster's dictionary.}} | *{{AuthorQuote|I went back and looked in Noah Webster's dictionary of the 1850's, when Joseph Smith was around, and when it said "continent," they're not talking about North and South America. OK? There's a North American continent and a South American continent in Noah Webster's dictionary.}} | ||
|| | || | ||
− | + | {{disinformation| Webster's 1828 dictionary refers to the entire North and South American landmass as a single continent.}} | |
*See: [[Book of Mormon geography/Definition of "continent"]] | *See: [[Book of Mormon geography/Definition of "continent"]] | ||
*Joseph Smith wasn't "around" in the 1850s...he died in 1844! | *Joseph Smith wasn't "around" in the 1850s...he died in 1844! | ||
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*Joseph wrote during Zion's Camp that they were "wandering over the plains of the Nephites" | *Joseph wrote during Zion's Camp that they were "wandering over the plains of the Nephites" | ||
|| | || | ||
− | *[[ | + | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Statements/Joseph Smith|Complete list of Joseph Smith statements]] about Book of Mormon Geography |
*[[Book of Mormon geography/Statements|Church leader statements]] about Book of Mormon geography | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Statements|Church leader statements]] about Book of Mormon geography | ||
*[[Zelph]] | *[[Zelph]] | ||
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*The story of Zelph is claimed to prove that the Northeastern United States was the land of the Nephites. | *The story of Zelph is claimed to prove that the Northeastern United States was the land of the Nephites. | ||
|| | || | ||
− | *[[ | + | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Statements/Joseph Smith|Complete list of Joseph Smith statements]] about Book of Mormon Geography |
*[[Book of Mormon geography/Statements|Church leader statements]] about Book of Mormon geography | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Statements|Church leader statements]] about Book of Mormon geography | ||
*[[Zelph]] | *[[Zelph]] | ||
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*Joseph sent missionaries to the Lamanites. | *Joseph sent missionaries to the Lamanites. | ||
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− | * By Joseph's era, ''all'' Amerindians would have been [[ | + | * By Joseph's era, ''all'' Amerindians would have been [[Amerindians as Lamanites#All From Lehi|descendants of Lehi]]. This does nothing to help define Book of Mormon era geography. |
*[[Book of Mormon geography/Borders of the Lamanites]] | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Borders of the Lamanites]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
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*Missionaries were sent to the "borders of the Lamanites." | *Missionaries were sent to the "borders of the Lamanites." | ||
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− | * By Joseph's era, ''all'' Amerindians would have been [[ | + | * By Joseph's era, ''all'' Amerindians would have been [[Amerindians as Lamanites#All From Lehi|descendants of Lehi]]. This does nothing to help define Book of Mormon era geography. |
*[[Book of Mormon geography/Borders of the Lamanites]] | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Borders of the Lamanites]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
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*Here is a statement from Joseph Smith that was ''not'' included in the presentation: | *Here is a statement from Joseph Smith that was ''not'' included in the presentation: | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
− | The stupendous ruins, the elegant sculpture, and the magnificence of '''the ruins of Guatamala''' [Guatemala], and other cities, corroborate this statement, and show that a great and mighty people-men of great minds, clear intellect, bright genius, and comprehensive designs inhabited '''this continent'''. Their ruins speak of their greatness; the Book of Mormen [Mormon | + | The stupendous ruins, the elegant sculpture, and the magnificence of '''the ruins of Guatamala''' [Guatemala], and other cities, corroborate this statement, and show that a great and mighty people-men of great minds, clear intellect, bright genius, and comprehensive designs inhabited '''this continent'''. Their ruins speak of their greatness; the Book of Mormen [Mormon] unfolds their history.-ED. {{ea}}<ref>{{TS1|author=Joseph Smith (editor)|article=American Antiquities|vol=3|num=18|date=15 July 1842|start=860}}</ref> |
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
*Page 862 of this issue of the Times and Seasons states: "The Times and Seasons, Is edited, printed and published about the first and fifteenth of every month, on the corner of Water and Bain Streets, Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, by JOSEPH SMITH." This statement was signed "ED," which attributes it directly to Joseph Smith. | *Page 862 of this issue of the Times and Seasons states: "The Times and Seasons, Is edited, printed and published about the first and fifteenth of every month, on the corner of Water and Bain Streets, Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, by JOSEPH SMITH." This statement was signed "ED," which attributes it directly to Joseph Smith. | ||
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*This is correct. | *This is correct. | ||
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− | *{{s|| | + | *{{s||D&C|42|61}} |
− | *{{s|| | + | *{{s||D&C|84|}} |
|- | |- | ||
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*The narrator claims that the New Jerusalem is Zion. | *The narrator claims that the New Jerusalem is Zion. | ||
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− | + | {{disinformation| '''What did Joseph Smith have to say about this?''' The narrator attempts to equate Zion ''exclusively'' with the location of the New Jerusalem, but this contradicts the words of Joseph Smith:}} | |
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
− | ...speaking of the '''Land of Zion, It consists of all N[orth] & S[outh] America''' but that any place where the Saints gather is Zion which every righteous man will build up for a place of safety for his children...'''The redemption of Zion is the redemption of all N[orth] & S[outh] America.'''" {{ea}} {{ | + | ...speaking of the '''Land of Zion, It consists of all N[orth] & S[outh] America''' but that any place where the Saints gather is Zion which every righteous man will build up for a place of safety for his children...'''The redemption of Zion is the redemption of all N[orth] & S[outh] America.'''" {{ea}}<ref>{{BYUS1|author=Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, [edited by Dean C. Jessee]|article=[https://byustudies.byu.edu/showtitle.aspx?title=5383 Joseph Smith's July 19, 1840 Discourse]|vol=19|num=3|date=Spring 1979|start=392}}</ref> |
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
*Other latter-day prophets have declared that North and South America constitute the land of Zion: see [[Location of Zion]]. | *Other latter-day prophets have declared that North and South America constitute the land of Zion: see [[Location of Zion]]. | ||
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*Missouri is the only "Land of Promise" in the Western Hemisphere. | *Missouri is the only "Land of Promise" in the Western Hemisphere. | ||
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− | + | {{disinformation| The prophets and apostles have clearly stated that Missouri is not the ''only'' land of promise, nor the only area to which Book of Mormon promises apply.}} | |
*For example, Wilford Woodruff said: | *For example, Wilford Woodruff said: | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
− | '''This land, North and South America''', is the land of Zion; it is a '''choice land-the land that was given by promise''' from old father Jacob to his grandson and his descendants, the land on which the Zion of God should be established in the latter days. {{ea}} {{ | + | '''This land, North and South America''', is the land of Zion; it is a '''choice land-the land that was given by promise''' from old father Jacob to his grandson and his descendants, the land on which the Zion of God should be established in the latter days. {{ea}}<ref>{{JDfairwiki|author=Wilford Woodruff|disc=35|vol=15|start=279}}</ref> |
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
* See also: [http://www.fairlds.org/DNA_Evidence_for_Book_of_Mormon_Geography/DEBMG04F.html more examples]. | * See also: [http://www.fairlds.org/DNA_Evidence_for_Book_of_Mormon_Geography/DEBMG04F.html more examples]. | ||
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− | *{{s|| | + | *{{s||D&C|57|1-3}} |
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*[[Book of Mormon geography/Location of Zarahemla]] | *[[Book of Mormon geography/Location of Zarahemla]] | ||
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− | *{{s|| | + | *{{s||D&C|125|3}} |
{{EndClaimsTable}} | {{EndClaimsTable}} | ||
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*The narrator claims that the only two seasons in Mesoamerica are "hot" and "really hot," and that this does not support the statement in Alma 46:40 that refers to "some seasons of the year." | *The narrator claims that the only two seasons in Mesoamerica are "hot" and "really hot," and that this does not support the statement in Alma 46:40 that refers to "some seasons of the year." | ||
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− | + | {{disinformation| Countries nearer the equator experience "dry seasons" and "wet seasons."}} | |
*The temperature in the Guatemalan highlands (where Mesoamerican supporters believe Lehi's party settled) is actually very temperate, with daytime temperatures of 75 to 80 degrees Farenheit. | *The temperature in the Guatemalan highlands (where Mesoamerican supporters believe Lehi's party settled) is actually very temperate, with daytime temperatures of 75 to 80 degrees Farenheit. | ||
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*The narrator defines "whirlwind" as a tornado and a "tempest" as a hurricane. The narrator states that "Central America, the location where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened has never had a single recorded tornado." | *The narrator defines "whirlwind" as a tornado and a "tempest" as a hurricane. The narrator states that "Central America, the location where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened has never had a single recorded tornado." | ||
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− | + | {{disinformation|}} | |
*A hurricane is also a whirlwind. | *A hurricane is also a whirlwind. | ||
*A tempest is typically a storm of any type. | *A tempest is typically a storm of any type. | ||
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*The narrator claims that the bones of 60 million buffalo disintegrated on the plains, and therefore it is reasonable to expect the bones of the Nephites to have disintegrated as well. | *The narrator claims that the bones of 60 million buffalo disintegrated on the plains, and therefore it is reasonable to expect the bones of the Nephites to have disintegrated as well. | ||
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− | + | {{disinformation| The bones of the buffalo aren't on the plains because they were worth money—they were gathered up, packed into boxcars, and shipped to the east for use in industrial processes and agriculture on a vast scale.}} | |
* The DVD miscites its source: estimates for the number of buffalo are actually less than ''thirty'' million, not sixty. | * The DVD miscites its source: estimates for the number of buffalo are actually less than ''thirty'' million, not sixty. | ||
* See: [http://www.fairlds.org/DNA_Evidence_for_Book_of_Mormon_Geography/DEBMG07F.html buffalo claims]. | * See: [http://www.fairlds.org/DNA_Evidence_for_Book_of_Mormon_Geography/DEBMG07F.html buffalo claims]. | ||
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{{EndClaimsTable}} | {{EndClaimsTable}} | ||
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Latest revision as of 15:47, 13 April 2024
Geographical claims
A FAIR Analysis of: DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD); Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences (Seminar), a work by author: The FIRM Foundation
|
Hierarchy of doctrinal authority |
Response to geographical claims made in the DVD DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography
The following tables respond to specific geographical claims made in the DVD. Only the geographical claims are treated here. For other issues related to this DVD and the presentation "Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences," see the following:
A note about DNA claims
It is claimed in the DVD and associated seminars that criticisms related to DNA and the Book of Mormon have not been addressed by LDS scholars. This is incorrect. For a detailed discussion of DNA related claims, see the following:
Heartland (Meldrum) Geography claims |
- DNA_Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Introduction
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 1:DNA
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 2:Geography
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 3:Joseph Smith
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 4:Promised Land
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 5:Prophesies and Promises
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 6:Tents, Temples, and Teepees
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 7:Weather and Climate
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 8:Buffalo Evidence
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 9:Chronological Evidence
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 10:Nephite Defenses
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 11:Nephite Structures
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 12:Mound Builders
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 13:Nephite Culture
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 14:Nephite Implements
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 15:Book of Mormon Lands
- Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Meldrum_2003/Section 16:Travel Indications
Claims made in the seminar "Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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High culture |
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Claims made in section 1: DNA Evidence
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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Claims made in section 2: Geography
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 2-11:33 |
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Claims made in section 3: Joseph Smith
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 3-3:55 |
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DVD 3-4:37 |
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Fact checking results: This claim is falseWebster's 1828 dictionary refers to the entire North and South American landmass as a single continent.
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DVD 3-4:58 |
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DVD 3-5:41 |
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DVD 3-6:22 |
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DVD 3-8:46 |
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DVD 3-13:11 |
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DVD 3-16:51 |
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DVD 3-17:26 |
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DVD 3-21:41 |
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DVD 3-30:59 |
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Claims made in section 4: Promised Land
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 4-1:29 |
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DVD 4-3:05 |
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Fact checking results: This claim is falseWhat did Joseph Smith have to say about this? The narrator attempts to equate Zion exclusively with the location of the New Jerusalem, but this contradicts the words of Joseph Smith:
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DVD 4-2:47 |
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Fact checking results: This claim is falseThe prophets and apostles have clearly stated that Missouri is not the only land of promise, nor the only area to which Book of Mormon promises apply.
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DVD 4-3:35, IBME |
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DVD 4-4:40 |
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DVD 4-5:34 |
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DVD |
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DVD |
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Claims made in section: Prophesies and Promises
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 5-4:37 |
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DVD 5-6:01 |
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Claims made in section: Tents, Temples and Teepees
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 6-1:54 |
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DVD 6-2:51 |
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DVD 6-3:30-3:44 |
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DVD 6-6:20 |
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DVD 6-6:40 |
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DVD 6-7:11 |
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DVD 6-7:24 |
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DVD 6-7:24 |
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Claims made in section: Weather and Climate
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 0:17 |
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DVD 1:56 |
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Fact checking results: This claim is falseCountries nearer the equator experience "dry seasons" and "wet seasons."
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DVD 7:18 |
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Fact checking results: This claim is false
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Claims made in section: Buffalo Evidence
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 2:31 |
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DVD 6:05 |
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Fact checking results: This claim is falseThe bones of the buffalo aren't on the plains because they were worth money—they were gathered up, packed into boxcars, and shipped to the east for use in industrial processes and agriculture on a vast scale.
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Claims made in section: Chronological Evidence
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD 0:40 |
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"...we withstood the Lamanites and swept them away out of our lands, and began to fortify our cities, or whatsoever place of our inheritance."
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DVD 2:38 |
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DVD 3:27 |
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Claims made in section: Nephite Defenses
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources | |
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DVD 2:41 |
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Claims made in section: Nephite Structures
Page | Claim | Response | Author's sources |
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DVD |
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DVD |
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DVD |
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Notes
- ↑ Joseph Smith (editor), "American Antiquities," Times and Seasons 3 no. 18 (15 July 1842), 860. off-site GospeLink
- ↑ Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, [edited by Dean C. Jessee], "Joseph Smith's July 19, 1840 Discourse," Brigham Young University Studies 19 no. 3 (Spring 1979), 392.
- ↑ Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses 15:279.