Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Location - Revision history

GregSmith: bot use legacy Detail template

2024-05-31T07:04:56Z

bot use legacy Detail template

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:04, 31 May 2024
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	I inquired of Joseph Smith Jr., who was to be the first who would be allowed to see the Book of Plates? He said it was a young child. After this, I became dissatisfied, and informed him that if there was any thing in my house of that description, which I could not be allowed to see, he must take it away; if he did not, I was determined to see it. After that, the Plates were said to be hid in the woods.		I inquired of Joseph Smith Jr., who was to be the first who would be allowed to see the Book of Plates? He said it was a young child. After this, I became dissatisfied, and informed him that if there was any thing in my house of that description, which I could not be allowed to see, he must take it away; if he did not, I was determined to see it. After that, the Plates were said to be hid in the woods.
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
	*{{~~Detail~~\|The Hurlbut affidavits}}		*{{Detail_old\|The Hurlbut affidavits}}
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
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	}}		}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits\|The Hurlbut affidavits}}		*{{Detail_old\|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits\|The Hurlbut affidavits}}
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
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	}}		}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE}}Hale's statement (shown above) does not state that Joseph was translating the plates while they were hidden in the woods.		*{{WikipediaCITE}}Hale's statement (shown above) does not state that Joseph was translating the plates while they were hidden in the woods.
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Book of Mormon/Translation#Were the plates actually required during the translation process?\|l1=Were the plates actually required during the translation process?}}		*{{Detail_old\|Book of Mormon/Translation#Were the plates actually required during the translation process?\|l1=Were the plates actually required during the translation process?}}
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====

GregSmith: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}, replaced: -- → — (2)

2024-04-13T19:34:41Z

Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}, replaced: -- → — (2)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:34, 13 April 2024
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	{{~~FairMormon~~}}		{{Main Page}}
	{{H1		{{H1
	\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Location		\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Location
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	*From ''Mormonism Unvailed'':		*From ''Mormonism Unvailed'':
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	I was informed they had brought a wonderful book of Plates down with them. I was shown a box in which it is said they were contained, which had to all appearances, been used as a glass box of the common window glass. I was allowed to feel the weight of the box, and they gave me to understand, that the book of plates was then in the box -- into which, however, I was not allowed to look.		I was informed they had brought a wonderful book of Plates down with them. I was shown a box in which it is said they were contained, which had to all appearances, been used as a glass box of the common window glass. I was allowed to feel the weight of the box, and they gave me to understand, that the book of plates was then in the box—into which, however, I was not allowed to look.
	<br><br>		<br><br>
	I inquired of Joseph Smith Jr., who was to be the first who would be allowed to see the Book of Plates? He said it was a young child. After this, I became dissatisfied, and informed him that if there was any thing in my house of that description, which I could not be allowed to see, he must take it away; if he did not, I was determined to see it. After that, the Plates were said to be hid in the woods.		I inquired of Joseph Smith Jr., who was to be the first who would be allowed to see the Book of Plates? He said it was a young child. After this, I became dissatisfied, and informed him that if there was any thing in my house of that description, which I could not be allowed to see, he must take it away; if he did not, I was determined to see it. After that, the Plates were said to be hid in the woods.
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	*According to Isaac Hale as quoted in ''Mormonism Unvailed'':		*According to Isaac Hale as quoted in ''Mormonism Unvailed'':
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	Martin Harris informed me that he must have a greater witness, and said that he had talked with Joseph about it -- Joseph informed him that he could not, or durst not show him the plates, but that he (Joseph) would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his track in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself. Harris informed me afterwards, that he followed Smith's directions, and could not find the Plates, and was still dissatisfied.		Martin Harris informed me that he must have a greater witness, and said that he had talked with Joseph about it—Joseph informed him that he could not, or durst not show him the plates, but that he (Joseph) would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his track in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself. Harris informed me afterwards, that he followed Smith's directions, and could not find the Plates, and was still dissatisfied.
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
	}}		}}

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2017-10-15T22:50:04Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:50, 15 October 2017
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	When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.		When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=113}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=170}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=113}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=170}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.		For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.		Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=115}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=115}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.		Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.		According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=124}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=124}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.		However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Stevenson\|1882}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–65}}; {{Harvtxt\|Van Horn\|1881}}; {{Harvtxt\|Whitmer\|1875}} ("The plates were not before Joseph while he translated, but seem to have been removed by the custodian angel."). [[Isaac Hale]] said that while Joseph was translating, the plates were "hid in the woods" {{Harv\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}. [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]] said they were "hid in the mountains" {{Harvtxt\|Palmer\|2002\|pp=2–5}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Stevenson\|1882}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–65}}; {{Harvtxt\|Van Horn\|1881}}; {{Harvtxt\|Whitmer\|1875}} ("The plates were not before Joseph while he translated, but seem to have been removed by the custodian angel."). [[Isaac Hale]] said that while Joseph was translating, the plates were "hid in the woods" {{Harv\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}. [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]] said they were "hid in the mountains" {{Harvtxt\|Palmer\|2002\|pp=2–5}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.		In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=115–116}}. Lucy may have caused the "loss" of [[lost 116 pages\|the 116 manuscript pages]], which Smith had lent her husband.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=115–116}}. Lucy may have caused the "loss" of [[lost 116 pages\|the 116 manuscript pages]], which Smith had lent her husband.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."		As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=125}} (stating that the angel took back the Urim and Thummim, but referring to the revelation that stated the plates were taken too); {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1832\|p=5}} (referring only to the plates); {{Harvtxt\|Phelps\|1833\|loc=9:1, p. 22}} (a revelation referring only to the plates and to Smith's "gift" to translate).		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=125}} (stating that the angel took back the Urim and Thummim, but referring to the revelation that stated the plates were taken too); {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1832\|p=5}} (referring only to the plates); {{Harvtxt\|Phelps\|1833\|loc=9:1, p. 22}} (a revelation referring only to the plates and to Smith's "gift" to translate).
	}}		}}

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	According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.		According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=126}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=126}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.		In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–265}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–265}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
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	In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.		In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=137}}; {{Harvtxt\|Salisbury\|1895\|p=16}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=137}}; {{Harvtxt\|Salisbury\|1895\|p=16}}.
	}}		}}

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2017-10-14T04:26:53Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 04:26, 14 October 2017
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=113}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=170}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=113}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=170}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	*From ''Mormonism Unvailed'':		*From ''Mormonism Unvailed'':
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=115}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=115}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	*{{Detail\|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits\|The Hurlbut affidavits}}		*{{Detail\|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits\|The Hurlbut affidavits}}
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=124}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=124}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Stevenson\|1882}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–65}}; {{Harvtxt\|Van Horn\|1881}}; {{Harvtxt\|Whitmer\|1875}} ("The plates were not before Joseph while he translated, but seem to have been removed by the custodian angel."). [[Isaac Hale]] said that while Joseph was translating, the plates were "hid in the woods" {{Harv\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}. [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]] said they were "hid in the mountains" {{Harvtxt\|Palmer\|2002\|pp=2–5}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Stevenson\|1882}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–65}}; {{Harvtxt\|Van Horn\|1881}}; {{Harvtxt\|Whitmer\|1875}} ("The plates were not before Joseph while he translated, but seem to have been removed by the custodian angel."). [[Isaac Hale]] said that while Joseph was translating, the plates were "hid in the woods" {{Harv\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}. [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]] said they were "hid in the mountains" {{Harvtxt\|Palmer\|2002\|pp=2–5}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE}}Hale's statement (shown above) does not state that Joseph was translating the plates while they were hidden in the woods.		*{{WikipediaCITE}}Hale's statement (shown above) does not state that Joseph was translating the plates while they were hidden in the woods.
	*{{Detail\|Book of Mormon/Translation#Were the plates actually required during the translation process?\|l1=Were the plates actually required during the translation process?}}		*{{Detail\|Book of Mormon/Translation#Were the plates actually required during the translation process?\|l1=Were the plates actually required during the translation process?}}
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=115–116}}. Lucy may have caused the "loss" of [[lost 116 pages\|the 116 manuscript pages]], which Smith had lent her husband.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=115–116}}. Lucy may have caused the "loss" of [[lost 116 pages\|the 116 manuscript pages]], which Smith had lent her husband.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	*We are not sure why the word "loss" needs to be included in scare quotes—nobody disputes that the manuscript existed, and that it was indeed lost.		*We are not sure why the word "loss" needs to be included in scare quotes—nobody disputes that the manuscript existed, and that it was indeed lost.
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=126}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=126}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=139530620&oldid=139510720}} Lucy does not mention the "autumn equinox."		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=139530620&oldid=139510720}} Lucy does not mention the "autumn equinox."
	*{{WikipediaNPOV}}In fact, the autumn equinox has been mentioned previously—why is it being mentioned again here? Is it necessary to mention the equinox ''every'' time the date September 22 is mentioned?		*{{WikipediaNPOV}}In fact, the autumn equinox has been mentioned previously—why is it being mentioned again here? Is it necessary to mention the equinox ''every'' time the date September 22 is mentioned?
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	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–265}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–265}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	*According to Isaac Hale as quoted in ''Mormonism Unvailed'':		*According to Isaac Hale as quoted in ''Mormonism Unvailed'':

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=
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2017-10-13T03:59:49Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=<br>\n#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:59, 13 October 2017
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.		When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=113}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=170}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=113}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=170}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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	For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.		For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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	Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.		Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=115}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}; {{Harvtxt\|Knight\|1833\|p=3}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=115}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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	Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.		Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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	According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.		According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=124}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=124}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
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	However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.		However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Stevenson\|1882}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–65}}; {{Harvtxt\|Van Horn\|1881}}; {{Harvtxt\|Whitmer\|1875}} ("The plates were not before Joseph while he translated, but seem to have been removed by the custodian angel."). [[Isaac Hale]] said that while Joseph was translating, the plates were "hid in the woods" {{Harv\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}. [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]] said they were "hid in the mountains" {{Harvtxt\|Palmer\|2002\|pp=2–5}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Stevenson\|1882}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–65}}; {{Harvtxt\|Van Horn\|1881}}; {{Harvtxt\|Whitmer\|1875}} ("The plates were not before Joseph while he translated, but seem to have been removed by the custodian angel."). [[Isaac Hale]] said that while Joseph was translating, the plates were "hid in the woods" {{Harv\|Hale\|1834\|p=264}}. [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]] said they were "hid in the mountains" {{Harvtxt\|Palmer\|2002\|pp=2–5}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCITE}}Hale's statement (shown above) does not state that Joseph was translating the plates while they were hidden in the woods.		*{{WikipediaCITE}}Hale's statement (shown above) does not state that Joseph was translating the plates while they were hidden in the woods.
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	In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.		In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=115–116}}. Lucy may have caused the "loss" of [[lost 116 pages\|the 116 manuscript pages]], which Smith had lent her husband.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=115–116}}. Lucy may have caused the "loss" of [[lost 116 pages\|the 116 manuscript pages]], which Smith had lent her husband.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 107:		Line 107:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."		As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=125}} (stating that the angel took back the Urim and Thummim, but referring to the revelation that stated the plates were taken too); {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1832\|p=5}} (referring only to the plates); {{Harvtxt\|Phelps\|1833\|loc=9:1, p. 22}} (a revelation referring only to the plates and to Smith's "gift" to translate).		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=125}} (stating that the angel took back the Urim and Thummim, but referring to the revelation that stated the plates were taken too); {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1832\|p=5}} (referring only to the plates); {{Harvtxt\|Phelps\|1833\|loc=9:1, p. 22}} (a revelation referring only to the plates and to Smith's "gift" to translate).
	}}		}}

Line 116:		Line 116:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.		According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=126}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=126}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=139530620&oldid=139510720}} Lucy does not mention the "autumn equinox."		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=139530620&oldid=139510720}} Lucy does not mention the "autumn equinox."
Line 127:		Line 127:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.		In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–265}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|pp=264–265}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 141:		Line 141:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.		In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=137}}; {{Harvtxt\|Salisbury\|1895\|p=16}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|p=137}}; {{Harvtxt\|Salisbury\|1895\|p=16}}.
	}}		}}

RogerNicholson at 05:33, 26 August 2017

2017-08-26T05:33:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:33, 26 August 2017
Line 24:		Line 24:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.		When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.		For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.		Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.		Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.		According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.		However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.
Line 93:		Line 93:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.		In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.
Line 104:		Line 104:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."		As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."
Line 113:		Line 113:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.		According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.
Line 124:		Line 124:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.		In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.
Line 138:		Line 138:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.		In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.

RogerNicholson at 03:05, 11 August 2017

2017-08-11T03:05:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:05, 11 August 2017
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	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	=={{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}==		=={{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}==
	~~==Reviews of previous revisions of this section==~~
	~~{{SummaryItem~~
	~~\|link=/December 2009~~
	~~\|subject=December 2009~~
	~~\|summary=A review of this section as it appeared in Wikipedia in December 2009.~~
	}}

	==Section review==		==Section review==

RogerNicholson at 02:52, 11 August 2017

2017-08-11T02:52:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:52, 11 August 2017
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	{{FairMormon}}		{{FairMormon}}
	~~__NOTOC__~~		{{H1
	{{~~FAIRAnalysisWikipedia~~		\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Location
	\|~~title~~=~~[[..~~/]]		\|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Reputed location of the plates during translation
	~~\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org~~/~~wiki/Golden_plates~~		\|T=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|~~uplink~~=~~[[../\|~~Golden plates]]		\|A=Various
	~~\|section=~~Reputed location of the plates during translation		\|<=[[../Translating\|Translating the plates]]
	\|~~previous~~=[[../Translating\|Translating the plates]]		\|>=[[../Returning the plates\|Returning the plates]]
	\|~~next~~=[[../Returning the plates\|Returning the plates]]
	~~\|notes={{WikipediaDisclaimer}}~~
	}}		}}
			<!-- INSERT CHART HERE -->
	=An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" {{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}=		<onlyinclude>
			{{H2
			\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Location
			\|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Reputed location of the plates during translation
			\|S=
			\|L1=
			}}
			</onlyinclude>
			=={{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}==
	==Reviews of previous revisions of this section==		==Reviews of previous revisions of this section==
	{{SummaryItem		{{SummaryItem

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{WikipediaPassage\n\|claim= +{{IndexClaimItemShort\n|title={{check}}\n|claim=)

2017-08-10T19:24:32Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 19:24, 10 August 2017
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.		When Joseph and Emma moved to Pennsylvania in October 1827, they transported a wooden box, which Smith said contained the plates, hidden in a barrel of beans.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.		For a time the couple stayed in the home of Emma's father [[Isaac Hale]]; but when Smith refused to show Hale the plates, Hale banished the concealed objects from his house.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.		Afterward, Smith told several of his associates that the plates were hidden in the nearby woods.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.		Emma said that she remembered the plates being on a table in the house, wrapped in a linen tablecloth, which she moved from time to time when it got in the way of her chores.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.		According to Smith's mother, the plates were also stored in a trunk on Emma's bureau.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.		However, Smith did not require the physical presence of the plates in order to translate them.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.		In April 1828, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]]' wife, [[Lucy Harris\|Lucy]], visited Harmony with her husband and demanded to see the plates. When Smith refused to show them to her, she searched the house, grounds, and woods. According to Smith's mother, during the search Lucy was frightened by a large black snake and thus prevented from digging up the plates.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."		As a result of Martin Harris' loss of the [[lost 116 pages\|116 pages]] of manuscript, Smith said that between July and September 1828, the [[angel Moroni]] took back both the plates and the [[Urim and Thummim (Latter Day Saints)\|Urim and Thummim]] as a penalty for his having delivered "the manuscript into the hands of a wicked man."
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	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.		According to Smith's mother, the angel returned the objects to Smith on September 22, 1828, the [[autumn equinox]] and the anniversary of the day he first received them.
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	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.		In March 1829, Martin Harris visited Harmony and asked to see the plates. Smith told him that he "would go into the woods where the Book of Plates was, and that after he came back, Harris should follow his tracks in the snow, and find the Book, and examine it for himself." Harris followed these directions but could not find the plates.
Line 127:		Line 137:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.		In early June 1829, the unwanted attentions of locals around Harmony necessitated Smith's move to the home of [[David Whitmer]] and his parents in [[Fayette, New York]]. Smith said that during this move the plates were transported by the [[angel Moroni]], who put them in the garden of the Whitmer house where Smith could recover them. The translation was completed at the Whitmer home.

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