Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Composition and weight - Revision history

GregSmith: /* top */Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

2024-04-13T19:34:37Z

top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:34, 13 April 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~FairMormon~~}}		{{Main Page}}
	{{H1		{{H1
	\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Composition and weight		\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Composition and weight

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

2017-10-15T22:49:34Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:49, 15 October 2017
Line 28:		Line 28:
	The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".		The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=167}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=102, 109, 113, 145}}; {{Harvtxt\|Grandin\|1829}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=167}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=102, 109, 113, 145}}; {{Harvtxt\|Grandin\|1829}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 40:		Line 40:
	When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".		When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=appx.}}		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=appx.}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 53:		Line 53:
	The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".		The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=Mormon 8:5}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=Mormon 8:5}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 69:		Line 69:
	In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".		In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Cole\|1831}}		#{{Harvtxt\|Cole\|1831}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 81:		Line 81:
	[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"		[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1842}}		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1842}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 93:		Line 93:
	But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,		But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*Joseph Smith History 1:34; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=165}}.		#Joseph Smith History 1:34; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=165}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 106:		Line 106:
	and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),		and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=166}}		#{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=166}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 118:		Line 118:
	"were lead or gold".		"were lead or gold".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=169}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=169}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 135:		Line 135:
	Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".		Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1884}}		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1884}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 151:		Line 151:
	Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.		Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Chase\|1833\|p=246}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Chase\|1833\|p=246}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 164:		Line 164:
	Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).		Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 177:		Line 177:
	Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".		Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1883}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1883}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 190:		Line 190:
	Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".		Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|pp=166, 169}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|pp=166, 169}}.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 202:		Line 202:
	Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".		Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#		#
Line 218:		Line 218:
	None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).		None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Vogel\|2004\|loc=p. 600, n. 65}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Vogel\|2004\|loc=p. 600, n. 65}}.
	}}		}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|response=\n +|authorsources=
\n#\n}}\n)

2017-10-14T04:26:24Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|response=\n +|authorsources=<br>\n#\n}}\n)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:26, 14 October 2017
Line 29:		Line 29:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=167}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=102, 109, 113, 145}}; {{Harvtxt\|Grandin\|1829}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=167}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=102, 109, 113, 145}}; {{Harvtxt\|Grandin\|1829}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 39:		Line 41:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=appx.}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=appx.}}
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 50:		Line 54:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=Mormon 8:5}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=Mormon 8:5}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{s\|1\|Nephi\|19\|1}}		*{{s\|1\|Nephi\|19\|1}}
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
Line 64:		Line 70:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Cole\|1831}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Cole\|1831}}
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 74:		Line 82:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1842}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1842}}
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 84:		Line 94:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*Joseph Smith History 1:34; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=165}}.		#*Joseph Smith History 1:34; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=165}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 95:		Line 107:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=166}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=166}}
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 105:		Line 119:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=169}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=169}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98763592&oldid=98746253}} The wiki editor leads the reader to believe the Martin Harris concluded that the plates were either "lead or gold." Harris goes on, however, to state that he knew that Joseph didn't have the means to purchase lead. This is left out of the wiki article, thus altering the meaning of the source being cited. The plates were ''covered'' when Martin lifted them, so he could not comment on their appearance at that time—only their weight.		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98763592&oldid=98746253}} The wiki editor leads the reader to believe the Martin Harris concluded that the plates were either "lead or gold." Harris goes on, however, to state that he knew that Joseph didn't have the means to purchase lead. This is left out of the wiki article, thus altering the meaning of the source being cited. The plates were ''covered'' when Martin lifted them, so he could not comment on their appearance at that time—only their weight.
	*The cited source states:		*The cited source states:
Line 120:		Line 136:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1884}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1884}}
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*From the cited source:		*From the cited source:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
Line 134:		Line 152:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Chase\|1833\|p=246}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Chase\|1833\|p=246}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 145:		Line 165:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 156:		Line 178:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1883}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1883}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 167:		Line 191:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|pp=166, 169}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|pp=166, 169}}.
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
	}}		}}
Line 177:		Line 203:
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}
	\|~~response~~=		\|authorsources=<br>
			#
			}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98717976&oldid=98716111}} The wiki editor states that Emma "said they were light enough" immediately after stating that she never estimated the weight. The cited source supports the first phrase, but not the second. Emma never said that the plates were "light" at all—she simply stated that she moved them.		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98717976&oldid=98716111}} The wiki editor states that Emma "said they were light enough" immediately after stating that she never estimated the weight. The cited source supports the first phrase, but not the second. Emma never said that the plates were "light" at all—she simply stated that she moved them.
	*From the cited source:		*From the cited source:

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=
\n#)

2017-10-13T03:59:19Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=<br>\n#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:59, 13 October 2017
Line 27:		Line 27:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".		The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=167}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=102, 109, 113, 145}}; {{Harvtxt\|Grandin\|1829}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=167}}; {{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1853\|pp=102, 109, 113, 145}}; {{Harvtxt\|Grandin\|1829}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 37:		Line 37:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".		When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=appx.}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=appx.}}
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 48:		Line 48:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".		The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=Mormon 8:5}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1830\|loc=Mormon 8:5}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{s\|1\|Nephi\|19\|1}}		*{{s\|1\|Nephi\|19\|1}}
Line 62:		Line 62:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".		In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Cole\|1831}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Cole\|1831}}
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 72:		Line 72:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"		[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1842}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1842}}
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 82:		Line 82:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,		But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*Joseph Smith History 1:34; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=165}}.		#*Joseph Smith History 1:34; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=165}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 93:		Line 93:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),		and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=166}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=166}}
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 103:		Line 103:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	"were lead or gold".		"were lead or gold".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=169}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=169}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98763592&oldid=98746253}} The wiki editor leads the reader to believe the Martin Harris concluded that the plates were either "lead or gold." Harris goes on, however, to state that he knew that Joseph didn't have the means to purchase lead. This is left out of the wiki article, thus altering the meaning of the source being cited. The plates were ''covered'' when Martin lifted them, so he could not comment on their appearance at that time—only their weight.		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98763592&oldid=98746253}} The wiki editor leads the reader to believe the Martin Harris concluded that the plates were either "lead or gold." Harris goes on, however, to state that he knew that Joseph didn't have the means to purchase lead. This is left out of the wiki article, thus altering the meaning of the source being cited. The plates were ''covered'' when Martin lifted them, so he could not comment on their appearance at that time—only their weight.
Line 118:		Line 118:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".		Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1884}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1884}}
	\|response=		\|response=
	*From the cited source:		*From the cited source:
Line 132:		Line 132:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.		Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Chase\|1833\|p=246}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Chase\|1833\|p=246}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 143:		Line 143:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).		Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 154:		Line 154:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".		Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1883}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1883}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 165:		Line 165:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".		Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|pp=166, 169}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|pp=166, 169}}.
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCorrect}}		*{{WikipediaCorrect}}
Line 175:		Line 175:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".		Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1879}}
	\|response=		\|response=
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98717976&oldid=98716111}} The wiki editor states that Emma "said they were light enough" immediately after stating that she never estimated the weight. The cited source supports the first phrase, but not the second. Emma never said that the plates were "light" at all—she simply stated that she moved them.		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=98717976&oldid=98716111}} The wiki editor states that Emma "said they were light enough" immediately after stating that she never estimated the weight. The cited source supports the first phrase, but not the second. Emma never said that the plates were "light" at all—she simply stated that she moved them.
Line 189:		Line 189:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).		None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Vogel\|2004\|loc=p. 600, n. 65}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Vogel\|2004\|loc=p. 600, n. 65}}.
	}}		}}

RogerNicholson at 05:37, 26 August 2017

2017-08-26T05:37:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:37, 26 August 2017
Line 24:		Line 24:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".		The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".
Line 34:		Line 34:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".		When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".
Line 45:		Line 45:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".		The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".
Line 59:		Line 59:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".		In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".
Line 69:		Line 69:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"		[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"
Line 79:		Line 79:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,		But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,
Line 90:		Line 90:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),		and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),
Line 100:		Line 100:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	"were lead or gold".		"were lead or gold".
Line 115:		Line 115:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".		Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".
Line 129:		Line 129:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.		Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.
Line 140:		Line 140:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).		Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).
Line 151:		Line 151:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".		Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".
Line 162:		Line 162:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".		Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".
Line 172:		Line 172:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".		Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".
Line 186:		Line 186:
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=~~{{check}}~~		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).		None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).

RogerNicholson at 03:07, 11 August 2017

2017-08-11T03:07:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:07, 11 August 2017
Line 18:		Line 18:
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	=={{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}==		=={{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}==
	~~==Reviews of previous revisions of this section==~~
	~~{{SummaryItem~~
	~~\|link=/December 2009~~
	~~\|subject=December 2009~~
	~~\|summary=A review of this section as it appeared in Wikipedia in December 2009.~~
	}}

	==Section review==		==Section review==

RogerNicholson at 02:55, 11 August 2017

2017-08-11T02:55:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:55, 11 August 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{FairMormon}}		{{FairMormon}}
	~~__NOTOC__~~		{{H1
	{{~~FAIRAnalysisWikipedia~~		\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Composition and weight
	\|~~title~~=~~[[..~~/]]		\|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Described composition and weight
	\|~~wikipedialink~~=~~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates~~		\|T=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|~~uplink~~=~~[[../\|~~Golden plates]]		\|A=Various
	\|~~section~~=~~Described composition and weight~~		\|<=[[../Format\|Described format, binding, and dimensions]]
	\|~~previous~~=[[../Format\|Described format, binding, and dimensions]]		\|>=[[../Sealed portion\|"Sealed" portion]]
	\|~~next~~=[[../Sealed portion\|"Sealed" portion]]
	~~\|notes={{WikipediaDisclaimer}}~~
	}}		}}
			<!-- INSERT CHART HERE -->
	=An analysis of the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" {{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}=		<onlyinclude>
			{{H2
			\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Composition and weight
			\|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Described composition and weight
			\|S=
			\|L1=
			}}
			</onlyinclude>
			=={{WikipediaUpdate\|9/21/2011}}==
	==Reviews of previous revisions of this section==		==Reviews of previous revisions of this section==
	{{SummaryItem		{{SummaryItem

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{WikipediaPassage\n\|claim= +{{IndexClaimItemShort\n|title={{check}}\n|claim=)

2017-08-10T19:23:52Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{WikipediaPassage\n\|claim= +{{IndexClaimItemShort\n|title={{check}}\n|claim=)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:23, 10 August 2017
Line 23:		Line 23:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".		The plates were first described as "gold", and beginning about 1827, the plates were widely called the "gold bible".
Line 32:		Line 33:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".		When the Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the [[Eight Witnesses]] described the plates as having "the appearance of gold".
Line 42:		Line 44:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".		The Book of Mormon describes the plates as being made of "ore".
Line 55:		Line 58:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".		In 1831, a Palmyra newspaper quoted [[David Whitmer]], one of the [[Three Witnesses]], as having said that the plates were a "''whitish yellow'' color", with "three small rings of the same metal".
Line 64:		Line 68:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"		[[Joseph Smith, Jr.]]'s first published description of the plates said that the plates "had the appearance of gold"
Line 73:		Line 78:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,		But Smith said that Moroni had referred to the plates as "gold." Late in life, [[Martin Harris (Latter Day Saints)\|Martin Harris]] stated that the rings holding the plates together were made of silver,
Line 83:		Line 89:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),		and he said the plates themselves, based on their heft of "forty or fifty pounds" (18–23 kg),
Line 92:		Line 99:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	"were lead or gold".		"were lead or gold".
Line 106:		Line 114:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".		Joseph's brother [[William Smith (Latter Day Saints)\|William Smith]], who said he felt the plates inside a pillow case in 1827, said in 1884 that he understood the plates to be "a mixture of gold and copper...much heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood".
Line 119:		Line 128:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.		Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter.
Line 129:		Line 139:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).		Smith's father [[Joseph Smith, Sr.]], who was one of the [[Eight Witnesses]], reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg).
Line 139:		Line 150:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".		Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment".
Line 149:		Line 161:

	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".		Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]".
Line 158:		Line 171:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".		Joseph Smith's wife [[Emma Hale Smith\|Emma]] never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work".
Line 171:		Line 185:
	}}		}}
	===== =====		===== =====
	{{~~WikipediaPassage~~		{{IndexClaimItemShort
			\|title={{check}}
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).		None of the witnesses specified the exact size of the plates or the number of leaves contained in them, but one scholar speculates that, had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg).

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles(.*)}} +)

2017-06-09T03:56:33Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles(.*)}} +)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:56, 9 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{FairMormon}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}		{{FairMormon}}
	__NOTOC__		__NOTOC__
	{{FAIRAnalysisWikipedia		{{FAIRAnalysisWikipedia
Line 185:		Line 185:

	{{suggestions}}		{{suggestions}}
	{{Articles Footer 1}} {{Articles Footer 2}} {{Articles Footer 3}} {{Articles Footer 4}} {{Articles Footer 5}} {{Articles Footer 6}} {{Articles Footer 7}} {{Articles Footer 8}} {{Articles Footer 9}} {{Articles Footer 10}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles FAIR copyright}} +{{FairMormon}})

2017-06-08T18:45:55Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles FAIR copyright}} +{{FairMormon}})

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:45, 8 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~Articles FAIR copyright~~}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}		{{FairMormon}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}
	__NOTOC__		__NOTOC__
	{{FAIRAnalysisWikipedia		{{FAIRAnalysisWikipedia