Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background - Revision history

GregSmith: bot use legacy Detail template

2024-05-31T07:04:53Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 07:04, 31 May 2024
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
	}}		}}
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}		*{{Detail_old\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}

	==Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"==		==Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"==
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
	}}		}}
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}		*{{Detail_old\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}


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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
	}}		}}
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic\|Joseph Smith/Money digging\|Joseph Smith/Seer stones}}		*{{Detail_old\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic\|Joseph Smith/Money digging\|Joseph Smith/Seer stones}}


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	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Joseph Smith/Seer stones}}		*{{Detail_old\|Joseph Smith/Seer stones}}

	==Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"==		==Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"==
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
	}}		}}
	* {{~~Detail~~\|Church_history/Censorship_and_revision/Hiding_the_facts\|l1=Hiding folk magic or stone in official Church publications?}}		* {{Detail_old\|Church_history/Censorship_and_revision/Hiding_the_facts\|l1=Hiding folk magic or stone in official Church publications?}}

	==Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"==		==Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"==
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	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
	{{~~Detail~~\|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits#Willard Chase\|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase}}		{{Detail_old\|Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits#Willard Chase\|l1=The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase}}

	==Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"==		==Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"==

GregSmith: /* top */Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

2024-04-13T19:34:35Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 19:34, 13 April 2024
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	\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background		\|L=Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background

GregSmith: /* Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg" */bot - LDS replace where able, replaced: LDS Church → Ch...

2024-04-13T02:02:47Z

Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg": bot - LDS replace where able, replaced: LDS Church → Ch...

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:02, 13 April 2024
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	Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,		Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#{{Harvtxt\|Roberts\|1930\|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the ~~LDS~~ Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.		#{{Harvtxt\|Roberts\|1930\|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':		{{information\|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

2017-10-15T22:50:34Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:50, 15 October 2017
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	Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."		Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Bennett\|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt\|Quinn\|1998\|pp=25–26}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Bennett\|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt\|Quinn\|1998\|pp=25–26}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.		Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1838b\|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").		#{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1838b\|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.		Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1833\|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt\|Clark\|1842\|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt\|Turner\|1851\|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lewis\|Lewis\|1879\|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt\|Mather\|1880\|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1833\|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt\|Clark\|1842\|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt\|Turner\|1851\|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lewis\|Lewis\|1879\|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt\|Mather\|1880\|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing\|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."		Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing\|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51,}},		#{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51,}},
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:		{{information\|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:
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	Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.		Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."		#{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):		{{information\|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):
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	Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.		Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.		#{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.
	}}		}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}
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	He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)\|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",		He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)\|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|p=51}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|p=51}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].		and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.		#Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.
	}}		}}
	*{{WikipediaOR\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}		*{{WikipediaOR\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}
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	Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,		Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Roberts\|1930\|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.		#{{Harvtxt\|Roberts\|1930\|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':		{{information\|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':
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	found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.		found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb\|Bennett\|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv\|Chase\|1833\|p=240}}.		#{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb\|Bennett\|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv\|Chase\|1833\|p=240}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].		This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple\|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.		#[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple\|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=
\n#)

2017-10-13T04:00:19Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 04:00, 13 October 2017
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	During the [[Second Great Awakening]], [[Joseph Smith, Jr.]] lived on his parents' farm near [[Palmyra (village), New York\|Palmyra, New York]]. At the time churches in the region contended so vigorously for souls that western New York became known as the "[[burned-over district]]" because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often.		During the [[Second Great Awakening]], [[Joseph Smith, Jr.]] lived on his parents' farm near [[Palmyra (village), New York\|Palmyra, New York]]. At the time churches in the region contended so vigorously for souls that western New York became known as the "[[burned-over district]]" because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 7		#Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 7
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."		Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Bennett\|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt\|Quinn\|1998\|pp=25–26}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Bennett\|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt\|Quinn\|1998\|pp=25–26}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.		Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1838b\|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").		#*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1838b\|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.		Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1833\|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt\|Clark\|1842\|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt\|Turner\|1851\|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lewis\|Lewis\|1879\|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt\|Mather\|1880\|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1833\|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt\|Hale\|1834\|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt\|Clark\|1842\|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt\|Turner\|1851\|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lewis\|Lewis\|1879\|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt\|Mather\|1880\|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing\|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."		Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing\|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51,}},		#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51,}},
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:		{{information\|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.		Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."		#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):		{{information\|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.		Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.
	}}		}}
	*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}		*{{WikipediaCITE\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)\|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",		He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)\|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|p=51}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Bushman\|2005\|p=51}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].		and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.		#*Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.
	}}		}}
	*{{WikipediaOR\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}		*{{WikipediaOR\|editor=COgden\|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,		Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Roberts\|1930\|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Roberts\|1930\|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.
	}}		}}
	{{information\|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':		{{information\|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.		found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb\|Bennett\|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv\|Chase\|1833\|p=240}}.		#*{{Harvtxt\|Harris\|1859\|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt\|Lapham\|1870\|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb\|Tucker\|1867\|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb\|Bennett\|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv\|Chase\|1833\|p=240}}.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].		This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple\|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.		#*[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple\|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.
	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat" */

2017-09-01T21:00:46Z

Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 1 September 2017
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	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
	*{{~~Detail\|~~Joseph ~~Smith/Money digging~~}}		{{:Question: Did Joseph place his seer stone in his hat while looking for lost objects?}}

	==Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"==		==Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"==

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure" */

2017-09-01T20:57:39Z

Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:57, 1 September 2017
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	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
	*{{~~Detail\|~~Joseph Smith~~/Money digging~~}}		{{:Question: Was "money digging" Joseph Smith, Jr's primary source of income during his early years?}}

	==Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"==		==Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"==

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure" */

2017-09-01T20:57:16Z

Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:57, 1 September 2017
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	\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a ~~[[scrying\|~~scryer]], using what were termed ~~[[Seer stone (Latter Day Saints)\|~~"seer stones"]] in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.		Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=
	*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1838b\|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").		*{{Harvtxt\|Smith\|1838b\|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'" */

2017-09-01T20:56:43Z

Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:56, 1 September 2017
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	}}		}}
	{{information}}		{{information}}
	*{{~~Detail\|~~Joseph Smith~~/Money~~ digging}}		{{:Question: Was Joseph Smith's participation in "money digging" as a youth a blot on his character?}}


	==Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"==		==Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"==

RogerNicholson at 03:35, 13 August 2017

2017-08-13T03:35:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:35, 13 August 2017
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	\|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background		\|H=An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background
	\|S=		\|S=
	\|L1=		\|L1=Response to claim: "western New York became known as the 'burned-over district' because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often"
			\|L2=Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'"
			\|L3=Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"
			\|L4=Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"
			\|L5=Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"
			\|L6=Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"
			\|L7=Response to claim: "nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised"
			\|L8=Response to claim: "He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a 'seer'"
			\|L9=Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"
			\|L10=Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg"
			\|L11=Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"
			\|L12=Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
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	*{{Detail\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}		*{{Detail\|Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic}}

	==Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts==		==Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"==
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort
	\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"		\|title=Wikipedia article "Golden plates"

Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background - Revision history

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GregSmith: /* Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg" */bot - LDS replace where able, replaced: LDS Church → Ch...

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RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat" */

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure" */

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure" */

RogerNicholson: /* Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'" */

RogerNicholson at 03:35, 13 August 2017

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=
\n#)