Joseph Smith and children through plural marriage - Revision history

GregSmith: /* What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity? */

2024-05-19T04:08:34Z

What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?

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	In the absence of further information, both of these reported pregnancies must be regarded as extremely speculative.		In the absence of further information, both of these reported pregnancies must be regarded as extremely speculative.

	=What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?=		=What did the husband of [[Sylvia Sessions Lyon\|Sylvia Sessions]] know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?=
	==Sylvia was married to Windsor Lyon by Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, and was sealed to Joseph Smith at some point after she was married==		==Sylvia was married to Windsor Lyon by Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, and was sealed to Joseph Smith at some point after she was married==

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	It appears, however, that Sylvia may have considered herself divorced from Windsor after he was excommunicated from the Church and left Nauvoo. Hales points out that "Currently, no documentation of a legal divorce between Windsor and Sylvia after his excommunication has been found. However, in the mid-nineteenth century, religious laws often trumped legal proceedings. Stanley B. Kimball observed: 'Some church leaders at that time considered civil marriage by non-Mormon clergymen to be as unbinding as their baptisms. Some previous marriages . . . were annulled simply by ignoring them.'" <ref>Brian and Laura Hales, "Sylvia Sessions," josephsmithspolygamy.org {{link\|url=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/sylvia-sessions/}}</ref> The sealing to Joseph occurred after Windor's excommunication. Andrew Jenson, in his historical record, referred to Sylvia as a "formerly the wife of Windsor Lyons." <ref>Andrew Jenson Papers, MS 17956, CHL, box 49, folder 16. </ref> There is no known evidence that Windsor lived with Sylvia after he returned to Nauvoo, but Sylvia did "rejoin" Windsor after he was rebaptised in 1846. Hales states, "No details are available to clarify what authority was used to reconfirm the marriage relationship between Sylvia and Windsor after their previous marital separation. Most likely the couple consulted with Brigham Young or Heber C. Kimball, who authorized their rejoining. Whether a private religious marriage ceremony for time was performed or the couple resumed observing their legal marriage is unknown. Importantly, even with the renewed conjugality between Windsor and Sylvia after Joseph Smith’s death, no evidence has been found to support her involvement in sexual polyandry at any time." <ref>Brian and Laura Hales, "Sylvia Sessions," Note 28 josephsmithspolygamy.org {{link\|url=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/sylvia-sessions/#link_ajs-fn-id_28-5660}}</ref>		It appears, however, that Sylvia may have considered herself divorced from Windsor after he was excommunicated from the Church and left Nauvoo. Hales points out that "Currently, no documentation of a legal divorce between Windsor and Sylvia after his excommunication has been found. However, in the mid-nineteenth century, religious laws often trumped legal proceedings. Stanley B. Kimball observed: 'Some church leaders at that time considered civil marriage by non-Mormon clergymen to be as unbinding as their baptisms. Some previous marriages . . . were annulled simply by ignoring them.'" <ref>Brian and Laura Hales, "Sylvia Sessions," josephsmithspolygamy.org {{link\|url=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/sylvia-sessions/}}</ref> The sealing to Joseph occurred after Windor's excommunication. Andrew Jenson, in his historical record, referred to Sylvia as a "formerly the wife of Windsor Lyons." <ref>Andrew Jenson Papers, MS 17956, CHL, box 49, folder 16. </ref> There is no known evidence that Windsor lived with Sylvia after he returned to Nauvoo, but Sylvia did "rejoin" Windsor after he was rebaptised in 1846. Hales states, "No details are available to clarify what authority was used to reconfirm the marriage relationship between Sylvia and Windsor after their previous marital separation. Most likely the couple consulted with Brigham Young or Heber C. Kimball, who authorized their rejoining. Whether a private religious marriage ceremony for time was performed or the couple resumed observing their legal marriage is unknown. Importantly, even with the renewed conjugality between Windsor and Sylvia after Joseph Smith’s death, no evidence has been found to support her involvement in sexual polyandry at any time." <ref>Brian and Laura Hales, "Sylvia Sessions," Note 28 josephsmithspolygamy.org {{link\|url=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/sylvia-sessions/#link_ajs-fn-id_28-5660}}</ref>

	~~{{HalesPluralWifeBiography\|wife=Sylvia Sessions\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/sylvia-sessions/}}~~

	=Did Prescindia Buell (or Sarah Pratt, or Mrs. Hyde) not know who was the father of her son?=		=Did Prescindia Buell (or Sarah Pratt, or Mrs. Hyde) not know who was the father of her son?=

GregSmith: /* As always, we are left where we began—with more suspicions and possibilities than certitudes */

2024-05-18T22:06:17Z

As always, we are left where we began—with more suspicions and possibilities than certitudes

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	==As always, we are left where we began—with more suspicions and possibilities than certitudes==		==As always, we are left where we began—with more suspicions and possibilities than certitudes==

	Few authors agree on which children should even be considered as Joseph's potential children. Candidates which some find overwhelmingly likely are dismissed—or even left unmentioned—by others. Recent scholars have included between one to four potential children as options. Of these, Josephine Lyon was the most persuasive, until her relationship to Joseph Smith was ultimately disproven through DNA testing. Orson W. Hyde died in infancy, and so can never be definitively excluded as a possible child, though the dates of conception argue against Joseph's paternity. ~~Oliver~~ Gray Frost is mentioned in two sources as having a child by Joseph. Both she and the child died in Nauvoo, so no genetic evidence will ever be forthcoming.<ref>{{Book:Hales:JS Polygamy 1/Full title\|pages=298}}</ref>		Few authors agree on which children should even be considered as Joseph's potential children. Candidates which some find overwhelmingly likely are dismissed—or even left unmentioned—by others. Recent scholars have included between one to four potential children as options. Of these, Josephine Lyon was the most persuasive, until her relationship to Joseph Smith was ultimately disproven through DNA testing. Orson W. Hyde died in infancy, and so can never be definitively excluded as a possible child, though the dates of conception argue against Joseph's paternity. Olive Gray Frost is mentioned in two sources as having a child by Joseph. Both she and the child died in Nauvoo, so no genetic evidence will ever be forthcoming.<ref>{{Book:Hales:JS Polygamy 1/Full title\|pages=298}}</ref>

	===Table 2===		===Table 2===

	=='''''Table 11‑2 Possible Children of Joseph Smith, Jr., by Plural Marriage==		=='''''Table 11‑2 Possible Children of Joseph Smith, Jr., by Plural Marriage==

GregSmith at 05:28, 18 May 2024

2024-05-18T05:28:40Z

Show changes

GregSmith at 05:20, 18 May 2024

2024-05-18T05:20:46Z

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	~~{{:~~Question: Can you summarize what we know about whether or not Joseph Smith fathered any children by his plural wives?}}		# [[Question: Can you summarize what we know about whether or not Joseph Smith fathered any children by his plural wives?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: Did Joseph Smith father any children through polygamous marriages?}}		# [[Question: Did Joseph Smith father any children through polygamous marriages?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: Did Joseph Smith produce any children by his plural wives? The case for children}}		# [[Question: Did Joseph Smith produce any children by his plural wives? The case for children]]
	~~{{:~~Question: Did Joseph Smith produce any children by his plural wives? The case against children}}		# [[Question: Did Joseph Smith produce any children by his plural wives? The case against children]]
	~~{{:~~Question: What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?}}		# [[Question: What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: Did Prescindia Buell (or Sarah Pratt, or Mrs. Hyde) not know who was the father of her son?}}		# [[Question: Did Prescindia Buell (or Sarah Pratt, or Mrs. Hyde) not know who was the father of her son?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: Did Joseph Smith father children by polyandrous plural wife Prescindia Buell?}}		# [[Question: Did Joseph Smith father children by polyandrous plural wife Prescindia Buell?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: What is the current state of the evidence for proving or disproving that Joseph Smith had children by his plural wives?}}		# [[Question: What is the current state of the evidence for proving or disproving that Joseph Smith had children by his plural wives?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: Was the only purpose of polygamy to "multiply and replenish the earth" and "bear the souls of men"?}}		# [[Question: Was the only purpose of polygamy to "multiply and replenish the earth" and "bear the souls of men"?]]
	~~{{:~~Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}		# [[Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?]]

	{{SummaryItem		{{SummaryItem

GregSmith at 02:39, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T02:39:45Z

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	\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?		\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?
	}}		}}


	{{SummaryItem		{{SummaryItem

GregSmith at 02:39, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T02:39:31Z

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	\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?		\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?
	}}		}}


	~~{{HalesLinksChildrenJSPluralMarriages}}~~


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	\|summary=There is no good evidence for sexual relations in polyandrous sealings.		\|summary=There is no good evidence for sexual relations in polyandrous sealings.
	}}		}}


			{{HalesLinksChildrenJSPluralMarriages}}


	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}

GregSmith at 02:39, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T02:39:07Z

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	\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?		\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?
	}}		}}


	{{HalesLinksChildrenJSPluralMarriages}}		{{HalesLinksChildrenJSPluralMarriages}}

GregSmith at 02:38, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T02:38:57Z

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	{{:Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}		{{:Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}

			{{SummaryItem
			\|link=Question: What do we know about Joseph Smith's "polyandrous" sealings or plural marriages?
			\|subject=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives?
			\|summary=Why would Joseph Smith be sealed to other men's wives? Some of these men were even active members of the Church. Were these marriages for time or only for eternity? Were these marriages consumated? Why did these women continue to live with the husbands after being sealed to Joseph Smith?
			}}

			{{HalesLinksChildrenJSPluralMarriages}}


			{{SummaryItem
			\|link=Question: Were there sexual relations in Joseph's marriages to women with living husbands?
			\|subject=Question: Were there sexual relations in Joseph's marriages to women with living husbands?
			\|summary=There is no good evidence for sexual relations in polyandrous sealings.
			}}

	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}

GregSmith at 02:17, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T02:17:24Z

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	{{:Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}		{{:Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}

	~~{{SummaryItem~~
	~~\|link=Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Children of polygamous marriages~~
	~~\|subject=Did Joseph have any children through polygamous marriages?~~
	~~\|summary=Is there evidence of any children through Joseph's polyandrous marriages?~~
	}}
	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}

GregSmith at 02:04, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T02:04:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:04, 6 May 2024
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	{{:Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}		{{:Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?}}

			{{SummaryItem
			\|link=Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Children of polygamous marriages
			\|subject=Did Joseph have any children through polygamous marriages?
			\|summary=Is there evidence of any children through Joseph's polyandrous marriages?
			}}
	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}