Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15 - Revision history

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	{{propaganda\|If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it? The author here again follows Bagley uncritically.		{{propaganda\|If it was never committed to writing, how does the author know about it? The author here again follows Bagley uncritically.
	}}		}}
	*{{~~Detail~~\|Brigham Young/Prosecution of Mountain Meadows Massacre/Deal with Brigham Young\|l1=Deal with Brigham Young for massacre prosecution?}}		*{{Detail_old\|Brigham Young/Prosecution of Mountain Meadows Massacre/Deal with Brigham Young\|l1=Deal with Brigham Young for massacre prosecution?}}

	==Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"==		==Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"==

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RogerNicholson at 01:58, 26 October 2017

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	\|>=[[../Chapter 16\|Chapter 16]]		\|>=[[../Chapter 16\|Chapter 16]]
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	The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away."		The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away."
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	~~#<br>~~
	*Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191.		*Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191.
	*Lee, 339		*Lee, 339
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	{{AuthorQuote\|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}}		{{AuthorQuote\|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	~~#<br>~~
	*{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets\|pages=300}}		*{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets\|pages=300}}
	*''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207.		*''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207.

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	The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate."		The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	No source given.		#No source given.
	}}		}}
	{{disinformation\|In ''modern'' usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint. <ref>The modern usage of "jack mormon" can be seen in the user-edited [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jack%20mormon Urban Dictionary] (accessed 17 June 2009). See also Pat Bagley, "'Jack Mormon' once meant something else" ''Salt Lake Tribune'' (13 January 2008): B4.</ref>		{{disinformation\|In ''modern'' usage, a "Jack Mormon" may sometimes refer to a less-active or less-observant Latter-day Saint. <ref>The modern usage of "jack mormon" can be seen in the user-edited [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jack%20mormon Urban Dictionary] (accessed 17 June 2009). See also Pat Bagley, "'Jack Mormon' once meant something else" ''Salt Lake Tribune'' (13 January 2008): B4.</ref>
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	The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away."		The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away."
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
			#<br>
	*Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191.		*Klingensmith testimony, Brooks, ''Mountain Meadows Witness'', 191.
	*Lee, 339		*Lee, 339
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	John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm."		John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	Author's opinion.		#Author's opinion.
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	{{disinformation\|Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the ''New York Herald'' reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young." <ref>{{FR-16-1-9}}</ref> That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence.		{{disinformation\|Lee had the chance for immunity if he would turn evidence against Brigham: "both Orson F. Whitney and the ''New York Herald'' reported that Howard offered Lee a full pardon in exchange for evidence against Brigham Young." <ref>{{FR-16-1-9}}</ref> That he never did so strongly suggests he had no such evidence.
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	{{AuthorQuote\|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}}		{{AuthorQuote\|Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime. In a calculated and mutually beneficial deal, Young and Howard came to terms. Young would make available all witnesses and evidence necessary for a conviction of Lee. In exchange, Howard would limit the testimony implicating Young, George Smith, and other church leaders in the affair, and drop charges against Dame. It was an extraordinary quid pro quo that neither side apparently committed to writing.}}
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
			#<br>
	*{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets\|pages=300}}		*{{CriticalWork:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets\|pages=300}}
	*''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207.		*''Salt Lake Tribune Reports'' published in Fielding, 207.
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	John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins."		John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	No source provided.		#No source provided.
	}}		}}
	{{propaganda\|How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed. It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws.		{{propaganda\|How do we know this signal was clear? How do we know what he intended? How do we know how others understood it? Evidence is needed. It is not clear why a convicted murderer's insistence that he had done nothing wrong tells us anything except that which we already knew—the murderer is callous with no regard for moral laws.
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	Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."		Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233.		#No source is provided for any of the lengthy quoted comments on page 233.
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|This quotation argues ''against'' the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders?		{{misinformation\|This quotation argues ''against'' the posthumous claims made in Lee's "confession," upon which Denton bases her case. If Lee was about to be executed, why would he only claim Brigham was leading the people astray—why would he write an expose of Brigham's complicity in the Massacre, and then not announce at his execution (or before) that Brigham was guilty of ordering the murders?

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	\|L1=Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"		\|L1=Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"

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RogerNicholson at 16:37, 26 June 2017

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RogerNicholson at 16:14, 26 June 2017

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	\|H2=Response to claims made in American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"		\|H2=Response to claims made in American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, "Mountain Meadows, March 23, 1877"
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	\|L1=		\|L1=Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"
			\|L2=Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away"
			\|L3=Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm"
			\|L4=Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime
			\|L5=Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"
			\|L6=Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."
	}}		}}
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	~~==Quick Navigation==~~
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"\|Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away"\|Response to claim: 224 - The "Mormon euphemism for blood-atoning murders" was to be "put away"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm"\|Response to claim: 227 - John D. Lee denied that Brigham Young ordered the massacre because he believed that Brigham "would protect him from harm"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime\|Response to claim: 228 - Young fully realized that the Mountain Meadows Massacre would continue to plague him until someone was held accountable for the crime]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"\|Response to claim: 230 - John D. Lee chose to be shot rather than beheaded as "a clear signal to the faithful that he rejected a spiritual need to atone for any sins"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."\|Response to claim: 233 - Before he is executed, Lee makes a statement against Brigham Young, saying that "I do not agree with him. I believe he is leading the people astray..."]]
	~~{{parabreak}}~~

	==Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"==		==Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"==

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	==Quick Navigation==		==Quick Navigation==
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"\|Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"]]		*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 15#Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"\|Response to claim: 222 - The author claims that a "Jack Mormon" is one "who is not devout but not apostate"]]